Return of Kings: Supporters of website touting 'legalising rape' to meet across Australia

[Crazy Eddie]

They need to learn to protect themselves intelligently. Telling a girl to kick a rapist in the balls is not a wise training regimen. There are a lot of charlatans in the self defense industries and besides that most women don't even seek out self defense training. Look at the tens of thousands of ballet and dance schools in the country and contrast that with training available for women with rape prevention and self defense in mind. If sexual assault is as high as the claimed 33%, women sure don't prioritize prevention of that and training like they do other hobbies such as yoga, aerobics, dance etc.

So because a large number of MEN refuse to abstain from a horrific and immoral behavior, it is the responsibility of WOMEN to prevent rapes from happening?

I'm not really seeing a qualitative difference between this mindset and "Women need to be veiled and obey Godly morality because if they don't they can tempt men to commit sins." But I guess that's kind of the point.

If you want to spare someone's precious feelings and shield their fragile ego then no you shouldn't say anything to them. However if you want to help them, offering advise about ways they can improve their chances and take responsibility for their own well being, then yes show them how they've been lazy and incompetent protecting themselves and their property.

People are responsible for their OWN actions, not for the actions of everyone else they may ever encounter who may or may not wish them harm. Taking responsibility for MY actions means not choosing not to commit crimes. Preventative measures can make my life easier if someone else decides to be an asshole, but ultimately it is the fault of the asshole for choosing to be one.

Also, I love the bravado that comes across in your posts; you are surely SUCH an amazing badass that no one would ever dare steal from you or mess with your property, because you, oh grand high badass, are the hard working super competent champion just like the rest of us should be. You're the responsible one! Congratulations.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

No that's just your abysmally poor reading comprehension at best or at worst its an attempt at libel because you refuse to address my points.

Got me out of a what would have been a gang rape when I was 12. So no, I do not agree. But i can see why men would want women to believe your point of view.

Reminds my of the Churchill quote "Anecdotes are like assholes everybody has one." It still doesn't make that advice good in general.

Hold up, so there are a lot of charlatans, which means there is a lot of demand, and yet women aren't taking the classes? Those two things don't go together.

No the charlatans offer their services to a wider audience than just women seeking empowerment.

Look at the tens of thousands of ballet and dance schools in the country and contrast that with training available for women with rape prevention and self defense in mind.

If sexual assault is as high as the claimed 33%, women sure don't prioritize prevention of that and training like they do other hobbies such as yoga, aerobics, dance etc.

That comparison makes no sense.

Its quite obvious far more women value being able to do pirouettes or shake their booty to the beat or put themselves into flexible poses than they value preventing themselves from being raped. What women spend their time and money on is what they value. If there were a 33% chance something horrific was going to happen to me I would devote most of my free time studying the causes and prevention of that tragedy. But I would prefer taking personal responsibility for my safety rather than console myself with exalted victim hood status after the fact.

Is it really too much to ask to expect men to learn to treat women with respect instead of like objects upon which they can foist their wills?

Its not too much to ask men, but it is too much to ask rapists. They know rape is wrong. You won't be telling them anything they don't already know.

 

[Nexus]

So because a large number of MEN refuse to abstain from a horrific and immoral behavior, it is the responsibility of WOMEN to prevent rapes from happening?

I'm not really seeing a qualitative difference between this mindset and "Women need to be veiled and obey Godly morality because if they don't they can tempt men to commit sins." But I guess that's kind of the point.

People are responsible for their OWN actions, not for the actions of everyone else they may ever encounter who may or may not wish them harm.

This is where you're fundamentally wrong. Part of the definition of "responsibility" is a duty to deal with something. If you shirk your responsibilities you suffer the consequences. You're going to deal with the bad circumstances one way or another, might as well be proactive and take responsibility for your safety.

Also, I love the bravado that comes across in your posts; you are surely SUCH an amazing badass that no one would ever dare steal from you or mess with your property, because you, oh grand high badass, are the hard working super competent champion just like the rest of us should be. You're the responsible one! Congratulations.

I've made no pronouncements about my abilities only my sense of responsibility. That fact you think that's wrong or macho says more about your insecurities and desire to not take responsibility.

If you value victim status and pity over safety them by all means don't take responsibility.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

men need to stop forcing themselves on women.

Telling a girl to kick a rapist in the balls is not a wise training regimen.

Got me out of a what would have been a gang rape when I was 12. So no, II do not agree. But i can see why men would want women to believe your point of view.

It's a very high risk attack. You got lucky.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

men need to stop forcing themselves on women. Got me out of a what would have been a gang rape when I was 12. So no, II do not agree. But i can see why men would want women to believe your point of view.

It's a very high risk attack. You got lucky.

I learned a very interesting fact. If you kick one teenage boy in the balls, the other five will grab theirs and you can get away.

 

[bilby]

If you want to spare someone's precious feelings and shield their fragile ego then no you shouldn't say anything to them. However if you want to help them, offering advise about ways they can improve their chances and take responsibility for their own well being, then yes show them how they've been lazy and incompetent protecting themselves and their property.

Indeed, there are some people who wish to be absolved of all responsibility for their wreck less actions, consequences be damned.

If their actions are wreck less, that's fine. It is reckless action that may require absolution. That's typically the opposite of wreck less.

 

[Will Wiley]

Rapists do take responsibility for their own safety. They strive to isolate their victims. So they won't be interrupted or caught. That's why rapists don't snatch women and drag them to the lobby of a police station to rape them.

The morality you know is one of irresponsibility towards ones own safety. ...

Nexus, is that the sort of thing that you say to people who have been stolen from? That they have been too lazy about securing their property and thus that they fully deserve being stolen from?

Is it possible they bear part of the responsibility?

Thus seems to be the point Voosh is making, and I have seen it too. I've seen women who took ecstasy or got drunk and then put themselves in very dangerous situations with men they didn't know. I've found myself in the situation of having to try to protect women who were too drunk or out of it to act in their own best interest. And it hasn't always been pleasant when it's been me against more than one man.
Isn't some of that the woman's responsibility
http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-stop-rape

I saw women wholly unconcerned with their own safety and the character of men they developed intimate relationships with. I saw women who voluntarily numbed themselves with alcohol and other drugs in social settings before letting the direction of the night’s wind determine who they would follow into a private room. I saw women who, once feeling awkward, sad, or guilty for a sexual encounter they didn’t fully remember, call upon an authority figure to resolve the problem by locking up her previous night’s lover in prison or ejecting him from school.

By attempting to teach men not to rape, what we have actually done is teach women not to care about being raped, not to protect themselves from easily preventable acts, and not to take responsibility for their actions. At the same time, we don’t hesitate to blame men for bad things that happen to them (if right now you walked into a dangerous ghetto and got robbed, you would be called an idiot and no one would say “teach ghetto kids not to steal”). It was obvious to me that the advice of our esteemed establishment writers and critics wasn’t stopping the problem, and since rape was already on the law books with severe penalties, additional laws or flyers posted on dormitory doors won’t stop this rape culture either.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Nexus, is that the sort of thing that you say to people who have been stolen from? That they have been too lazy about securing their property and thus that they fully deserve being stolen from?

Is it possible they bear part of the responsibility?

Thus seems to be the point Voosh is making, and I have seen it too. I've seen women who took ecstasy or got drunk and then put themselves in very dangerous situations with men they didn't know. I've found myself in the situation of having to try to protect women who were too drunk or out of it to act in their own best interest. And it hasn't always been pleasant when it's been me against more than one man.
Isn't some of that the woman's responsibility

no.

http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-stop-rape

I saw women wholly unconcerned with their own safety and the character of men they developed intimate relationships with. I saw women who voluntarily numbed themselves with alcohol and other drugs in social settings before letting the direction of the night’s wind determine who they would follow into a private room. I saw women who, once feeling awkward, sad, or guilty for a sexual encounter they didn’t fully remember, call upon an authority figure to resolve the problem by locking up her previous night’s lover in prison or ejecting him from school.

By attempting to teach men not to rape, what we have actually done is teach women not to care about being raped, not to protect themselves from easily preventable acts, and not to take responsibility for their actions. At the same time, we don’t hesitate to blame men for bad things that happen to them (if right now you walked into a dangerous ghetto and got robbed, you would be called an idiot and no one would say “teach ghetto kids not to steal”). It was obvious to me that the advice of our esteemed establishment writers and critics wasn’t stopping the problem, and since rape was already on the law books with severe penalties, additional laws or flyers posted on dormitory doors won’t stop this rape culture either.

Liking and trusting the wrong the man is not illegal, not even immoral. (And after these many years posting on these boards, I can name several men here who better be glad and appreciate that fact, otherwise they would never be with a woman.)

Getting drunk, provided you are of drinking age, is not illegal.

Forcing sex on someone without that person's consent is illegal, is immoral, and is totally the decision and responsibility of the rapist.

What kind of a man needs a woman to be drunk and or forced to have sex with him? And what kind of a person wants that kind of man to be able to blame his actions on his victim?

 

[Toni]

men need to stop forcing themselves on women. Got me out of a what would have been a gang rape when I was 12. So no, II do not agree. But i can see why men would want women to believe your point of view.

It's a very high risk attack. You got lucky.

Escaping from a gang rape is very lucky indeed. Escaping from any attempted rape is lucky because no matter how strong, how well trained you are, it's always possible to be overcome by force, particularly when there are multiple attackers. Of course, it's not all luck. Luck is someone walking by and interrupting the attack, allowing you to escape. The truth is you can do things to help increase your chances of escaping. Being willing to fight back is a good place to start. One thing that women are told, over and over again is not to make the guy too mad because it will be worse for them. Ask any domestic abuse victim how well that works.

In my personal experience with someone who repeatedly tried to rape and/or sexually assault me, these things kept happening as long as I merely attempted to avoid situations where these things could happen and when I managed to escaped. Once I learned to inflict the right amount of pain, and make noise, increasing the chance that he'd be discovered, they stopped. It was a powerful lesson. One I used later, once against a group of guys who were lined up to rape my friend who was nearly passed out drunk and then again, against a different guy, in my own defense. Standing up for yourself is key. It doesn't always have to get physical but if it does, being afraid it will go worse if you don't cooperate like a good little girl is not necessarily the best strategy.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

This is where you're fundamentally wrong. Part of the definition of "responsibility" is a duty to deal with something. If you shirk your responsibilities you suffer the consequences. You're going to deal with the bad circumstances one way or another, might as well be proactive and take responsibility for your safety.

I have nothing against being prepared, but there are a couple of things here that are troubling if you focus on the risk management side alone:

#1) A large majority of rapes come from people the victim knows and presumably trusts. A constant vigil stance is not a good stance for forming meaningful relationships since trust is needed.

#2) This shifts the blame onto the victim for not having the will/resources to fight off a rapist. This also compounds the mental anguish after a rape: "If only I could have used my training, I know better than to..."

So let's go to an event that happened last night. A very attractive woman I know was drinking with us and invited six of us men us to an after party. She is 25, the youngest man was 45. She is 5' 4"; she is athletic. She held herself together, but by my estimate had 4-5 tallboy IPA's in her (3-hour), meaning she was drunk, but not pass out/blackout drunk, still aware of her surroundings. I do not consider any of the men to have been a threat, and left her there with them, but here's the clincher: they were all several times larger and stronger than her. If one of them was determined, there wouldn't be much she could do to stop them.

Now yes, in this scenario she had upped her "risk factors": she traveled alone, she invited six large men to meet her, she had been drinking. If something had happened, it still would not be her fault. However, if we only focus on preparedness and self defense these things become "her fault" in the eyes of many, possibly in her own view of things.

If she hadn't...
If she hadn't...
If she hadn't...

Notice what is missing?

The perp. We are blaming the victim here. Yes, she "should", but it is still not her fault if she doesn't or didn't.

If you value victim status and pity over safety them by all means don't take responsibility.

^This attitude is exactly what I am talking about. "Your victim status is your fault." Not the rapist fault. "If the victim had only done x, y, or z then nothing would have happened. They didn't and it is their fault." <-- The victim may have done nothing out of the ordinary to bring on the events, but when they are confronted with this attitude they begin blaming themselves. Also, a victim can be fully prepared and nothing they can do would have changed the situation, but the statement you posted does not allow for this. Essentially what this statement is saying is that they are responsible for their victimhood.

 

[Toni]

This is where you're fundamentally wrong. Part of the definition of "responsibility" is a duty to deal with something. If you shirk your responsibilities you suffer the consequences. You're going to deal with the bad circumstances one way or another, might as well be proactive and take responsibility for your safety.

Also, I love the bravado that comes across in your posts; you are surely SUCH an amazing badass that no one would ever dare steal from you or mess with your property, because you, oh grand high badass, are the hard working super competent champion just like the rest of us should be. You're the responsible one! Congratulations.

I've made no pronouncements about my abilities only my sense of responsibility. That fact you think that's wrong or macho says more about your insecurities and desire to not take responsibility.

If you value victim status and pity over safety them by all means don't take responsibility.

I think it is great that you are such a strong advocate for taking responsibility.

So my question is: when are men going to start to take responsibility for men raping women, children and sometimes men?

When?

Now?

How about now?

Now?

When could it possibly be a better time?

What? It's too hard? Too complicated? Please stop embracing your victimhood and start fixing the problem men have with violence and with women and too often, children and even other men.

 

[bigfield]

Delete.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's a very high risk attack. You got lucky.

I learned a very interesting fact. If you kick one teenage boy in the balls, the other five will grab theirs and you can get away.

The point is you are putting yourself way off balance aiming that high. If they step back and grab your leg you're in a very bad position.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's a very high risk attack. You got lucky.

Escaping from a gang rape is very lucky indeed. Escaping from any attempted rape is lucky because no matter how strong, how well trained you are, it's always possible to be overcome by force, particularly when there are multiple attackers. Of course, it's not all luck. Luck is someone walking by and interrupting the attack, allowing you to escape. The truth is you can do things to help increase your chances of escaping. Being willing to fight back is a good place to start. One thing that women are told, over and over again is not to make the guy too mad because it will be worse for them. Ask any domestic abuse victim how well that works.

In my personal experience with someone who repeatedly tried to rape and/or sexually assault me, these things kept happening as long as I merely attempted to avoid situations where these things could happen and when I managed to escaped. Once I learned to inflict the right amount of pain, and make noise, increasing the chance that he'd be discovered, they stopped. It was a powerful lesson. One I used later, once against a group of guys who were lined up to rape my friend who was nearly passed out drunk and then again, against a different guy, in my own defense. Standing up for yourself is key. It doesn't always have to get physical but if it does, being afraid it will go worse if you don't cooperate like a good little girl is not necessarily the best strategy.

I'm not objecting to fighting back, I'm just saying the balls aren't a good target. If you're wearing heels, stomp. Otherwise go for the knees.

 

[bigfield]

Delete

 

[Toni]

Escaping from a gang rape is very lucky indeed. Escaping from any attempted rape is lucky because no matter how strong, how well trained you are, it's always possible to be overcome by force, particularly when there are multiple attackers. Of course, it's not all luck. Luck is someone walking by and interrupting the attack, allowing you to escape. The truth is you can do things to help increase your chances of escaping. Being willing to fight back is a good place to start. One thing that women are told, over and over again is not to make the guy too mad because it will be worse for them. Ask any domestic abuse victim how well that works.

In my personal experience with someone who repeatedly tried to rape and/or sexually assault me, these things kept happening as long as I merely attempted to avoid situations where these things could happen and when I managed to escaped. Once I learned to inflict the right amount of pain, and make noise, increasing the chance that he'd be discovered, they stopped. It was a powerful lesson. One I used later, once against a group of guys who were lined up to rape my friend who was nearly passed out drunk and then again, against a different guy, in my own defense. Standing up for yourself is key. It doesn't always have to get physical but if it does, being afraid it will go worse if you don't cooperate like a good little girl is not necessarily the best strategy.

I'm not objecting to fighting back, I'm just saying the balls aren't a good target. If you're wearing heels, stomp. Otherwise go for the knees.

You definitely don't need heels to stomp effectively.

Although my voice alone is enough to make any attacker run away in pain, I do like the acronym: SING:

 

[Will Wiley]

Is it possible they bear part of the responsibility?

Thus seems to be the point Voosh is making, and I have seen it too. I've seen women who took ecstasy or got drunk and then put themselves in very dangerous situations with men they didn't know. I've found myself in the situation of having to try to protect women who were too drunk or out of it to act in their own best interest. And it hasn't always been pleasant when it's been me against more than one man.
Isn't some of that the woman's responsibility

no.

http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-stop-rape

I saw women wholly unconcerned with their own safety and the character of men they developed intimate relationships with. I saw women who voluntarily numbed themselves with alcohol and other drugs in social settings before letting the direction of the night’s wind determine who they would follow into a private room. I saw women who, once feeling awkward, sad, or guilty for a sexual encounter they didn’t fully remember, call upon an authority figure to resolve the problem by locking up her previous night’s lover in prison or ejecting him from school.

By attempting to teach men not to rape, what we have actually done is teach women not to care about being raped, not to protect themselves from easily preventable acts, and not to take responsibility for their actions. At the same time, we don’t hesitate to blame men for bad things that happen to them (if right now you walked into a dangerous ghetto and got robbed, you would be called an idiot and no one would say “teach ghetto kids not to steal”). It was obvious to me that the advice of our esteemed establishment writers and critics wasn’t stopping the problem, and since rape was already on the law books with severe penalties, additional laws or flyers posted on dormitory doors won’t stop this rape culture either.

Liking and trusting the wrong the man is not illegal, not even immoral. (And after these many years posting on these boards, I can name several men here who better be glad and appreciate that fact, otherwise they would never be with a woman.)

Getting drunk, provided you are of drinking age, is not illegal.

Forcing sex on someone without that person's consent is illegal, is immoral, and is totally the decision and responsibility of the rapist.

What kind of a man needs a woman to be drunk and or forced to have sex with him? And what kind of a person wants that kind of man to be able to blame his actions on his victim?

Just because something is not illegal doesn't mean it's not irresponsible,

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I learned a very interesting fact. If you kick one teenage boy in the balls, the other five will grab theirs and you can get away.

The point is you are putting yourself way off balance aiming that high.

Actually I wasn't off balance. If nothing else, my neighborhood offered you plenty of chances to fight and become quite good at it.

If they step back and grab your leg you're in a very bad position.

Why would they do that when they weren't expecting me to fight back? Six white boys, one black girl, at rural southern school not yet a decade into desegregation. There is no way some little nigger wench, which I was called that day, is gonna have the nerve to fight back. Maybe they were right. But I am no nigger, I am no wench. And I do fight back.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

no.

http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-stop-rape

I saw women wholly unconcerned with their own safety and the character of men they developed intimate relationships with. I saw women who voluntarily numbed themselves with alcohol and other drugs in social settings before letting the direction of the night’s wind determine who they would follow into a private room. I saw women who, once feeling awkward, sad, or guilty for a sexual encounter they didn’t fully remember, call upon an authority figure to resolve the problem by locking up her previous night’s lover in prison or ejecting him from school.

By attempting to teach men not to rape, what we have actually done is teach women not to care about being raped, not to protect themselves from easily preventable acts, and not to take responsibility for their actions. At the same time, we don’t hesitate to blame men for bad things that happen to them (if right now you walked into a dangerous ghetto and got robbed, you would be called an idiot and no one would say “teach ghetto kids not to steal”). It was obvious to me that the advice of our esteemed establishment writers and critics wasn’t stopping the problem, and since rape was already on the law books with severe penalties, additional laws or flyers posted on dormitory doors won’t stop this rape culture either.

Liking and trusting the wrong the man is not illegal, not even immoral. (And after these many years posting on these boards, I can name several men here who better be glad and appreciate that fact, otherwise they would never be with a woman.)

Getting drunk, provided you are of drinking age, is not illegal.

Forcing sex on someone without that person's consent is illegal, is immoral, and is totally the decision and responsibility of the rapist.

What kind of a man needs a woman to be drunk and or forced to have sex with him? And what kind of a person wants that kind of man to be able to blame his actions on his victim?

Just because something is not illegal doesn't mean it's not irresponsible,

Irresponsible behavior. ALSO not illegal and does not mitigate in the least the actions of the rapist.

Do you want it to?

 

[TSwizzle]

But there are consequences to irresponsible behavior.