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US President 2016 - the Great Horse Race

Derec said:
DrZoidberg said:
Or why not outsource it to Berliners? I hear they've had quite the experience building a wall "for protection" against evil foreigners with their foreign customs and threatening ideas.
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1. The Berlin Wall was to keep people in, not out. It is the difference between locking somebody in your house against their will, and locking the door to your house so uninvited people can't just walk in.
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Stop using a house as an analogy. It's not remotely the same thing. People will move around their base of operations pretty freely. Any wall is just fucking annoying. People who live near borders don't think of the border as actually existing. It's not how people work. Putting this wall up is horrible. And stupid. It's like burning massive piles of cash on both sides. If you want to become rich, just free up all movement of people and capital. Yes, it really works.

Derec said:
2. Berlin Wall had nothing to do with "foreigners" as it separated two parts of Germany that spoke the same language and had the same customs.
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That was my point about the analogy. It was bullshit for the Germans and is bullshit for the Americans. Both the Americans and Mexicans speak Spanish. So what's the deal? Los Angeles (for example) is a Spanish place name. It's a clue.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
Its almost as if our labels don't actually describe reality!
Sure the heck the 2010 and 2016 elections didn't seem to have anything to do with reality.
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You only think that because your perception of reality is faulty.

Clue: when things don't make sense, the problem is probably your way of interpreting things, not the actual things.

Elections are more complicated, because they revolve around interpreting the way that other people interpret things, rather than the actual things.

I got the message loud and clear, and am now reevaluating my assumptions. Please join me.
 
I remember protests at Bush's first inauguration. It will be interesting to see what takes place at Trump's.
 
So, if Trump voters wanted something different, why is McCain back in office? Grassley? Why is Newt Gingrich likely to play a large role in a Trump administration? Why are they likely going to get a Paul Ryan budget? Methinks they're not going to get much different than standard Republican establishment.

They're going to be disappointed when a wall doesn't get built, because it'd be ridiculously expensive to build and patrol and likely wouldn't solve the problem anyway. They're going to be disappointed when ISIS isn't destroyed in the first month with Trump's genius plan that's better than anything the military generals have ever thought up. They're going to be disappointed when they lose their health insurance and can't get a new policy due to their pre-existing condition or get a crappy one from another state. I think there will be even more disappointment than the progressives had with Obama.

But they won't be able to sue, like the attendees of Trump University.
 
Shadowy Man said:
So, if Trump voters wanted something different, why is McCain back in office? Grassley? Why is Newt Gingrich likely to play a large role in a Trump administration? Why are they likely going to get a Paul Ryan budget? Methinks they're not going to get much different than standard Republican establishment.
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They're dumb. There will be new things to talk about in 2020. That is, if they haven't so subverted the system that it doesn't matter.
 
Sarpedon said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Quote Originally Posted by Sarpedon View Post
Its almost as if our labels don't actually describe reality!
Sure the heck the 2010 and 2016 elections didn't seem to have anything to do with reality.
Click to expand...

You only think that because your perception of reality is faulty.

Clue: when things don't make sense, the problem is probably your way of interpreting things, not the actual things.
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Not for 2010. 2010 was one of the most lopsided elections in American history. What happened? Obama passed ACA. That made absolutely no sense. The people were lied to and they voted as if a massive scandal had occurred. A bigger landslide than in '06 when America protested Iraq policies.

Elections are more complicated, because they revolve around interpreting the way that other people interpret things, rather than the actual things.
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That was kind of where I was headed.

I got the message loud and clear, and am now reevaluating my assumptions. Please join me.
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Assumptions? There are none now. No one knows how the 2020 would be run. Trump changed things forever... for at least a few years. There is so much uncertainty about everything with a Trump Presidency. He promised to flip everything, but he also promised to do things that can't be done as well.
 
Now that my hangover is clearing up I'd like to share a few thoughts.
There was a very large volunteer effort here in Nevada, I spent the month making calls and canvasing to the point where people were getting sick of the calls, texts and emails. But the point is it paid off, Clinton got the state, we put a democrat back in the senate (Reid's spot) and most importantly we turned two red house seats blue.

I can't stress enough the idea that "all politics is local". There is no such thing as a "national election". Because of the electoral college the national vote doesn't matter, and the electoral college is going nowhere, you would have as much success overturning that as you would getting rid of the second amendment.

Because of our system you can only control or help control what happens in your state, that is where your effort should go if you want to change things. If we gems would have taken the senate back the disaster of a Trump presidency would have been somewhat mitigated-but people don't focus on congress-most people who I called didn't even know the name of the people who were running for congress.

Anyway in two years we will have a chance to fix this thing, in the mean time we have to hope our senate can filibuster any real damage these jokers try to inflict.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Stop using a house as an analogy. It's not remotely the same thing. People will move around their base of operations pretty freely. Any wall is just fucking annoying. People who live near borders don't think of the border as actually existing. It's not how people work. Putting this wall up is horrible. And stupid. It's like burning massive piles of cash on both sides. If you want to become rich, just free up all movement of people and capital. Yes, it really works.
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It only works when you have similar economic levels within the free-movement zone and a similar culture. Otherwise you get heavily lopsided migration, millions moving from economically under-performing regions to more affluent ones. And if the cultures are very different you get difficulties on that front too.

Look at what's been happening with Europe and the mass influx of Muslim refugees and economic migrants.

That was my point about the analogy. It was bullshit for the Germans and is bullshit for the Americans. Both the Americans and Mexicans speak Spanish. So what's the deal? Los Angeles (for example) is a Spanish place name. It's a clue.
Click to expand...
Bullshit. Most Americans can't speak Spanish. Of course, a Spanish speaking North America is probably the end goal of no-borders idiots. And you should get used to learning Arabic and giving up on pork and alcohol since you support mass migration of millions of Muslims.
 
Tristan Scott said:
Now that my hangover is clearing up I'd like to share a few thoughts.
There was a very large volunteer effort here in Nevada, I spent the month making calls and canvasing to the point where people were getting sick of the calls, texts and emails. But the point is it paid off, Clinton got the state, we put a democrat back in the senate (Reid's spot) and most importantly we turned two red house seats blue.

I can't stress enough the idea that "all politics is local". There is no such thing as a "national election". Because of the electoral college the national vote doesn't matter, and the electoral college is going nowhere, you would have as much success overturning that as you would getting rid of the second amendment.

Because of our system you can only control or help control what happens in your state, that is where your effort should go if you want to change things. If we gems would have taken the senate back the disaster of a Trump presidency would have been somewhat mitigated-but people don't focus on congress-most people who I called didn't even know the name of the people who were running for congress.

Anyway in two years we will have a chance to fix this thing, in the mean time we have to hope our senate can filibuster any real damage these jokers try to inflict.
Click to expand...

I tip my hat to you, well done for making the effort.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Both the Americans and Mexicans speak Spanish. So what's the deal? Los Angeles (for example) is a Spanish place name. It's a clue.
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You have never been to Los Angeles have you ? And why would native South Americans adopt the Spanish language ? Did a few of them vacation on the Costa Brava one year and come back with the idea perhaps ?
 
TSwizzle said:
DrZoidberg said:
Both the Americans and Mexicans speak Spanish. So what's the deal? Los Angeles (for example) is a Spanish place name. It's a clue.
Click to expand...

You have never been to Los Angeles have you ? And why would native South Americans adopt the Spanish language ? Did a few of them vacation on the Costa Brava one year and come back with the idea perhaps ?
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Many native South Americans (i.e., people born in South America) are also native Spanish speakers. We did not adopt it. Other native South Americans are native Portuguese speakers. There are minorities who have other languages as their first language, but most can speak either Portuguese or Spanish.

If you mean something else by "native South Americans", I would ask what you call the people who were born in South America.
 
Derec said:
It only works when you have similar economic levels within the free-movement zone and a similar culture. Otherwise you get heavily lopsided migration, millions moving from economically under-performing regions to more affluent ones. And if the cultures are very different you get difficulties on that front too.

Look at what's been happening with Europe and the mass influx of Muslim refugees and economic migrants.
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This is a fantasy/paranoid delusion created by racist blogs. It isn't actual reality. So your point is what? Are you a klansman who voted for Trump?

Also, rich countries aren't paradises.

Derec said:
That was my point about the analogy. It was bullshit for the Germans and is bullshit for the Americans. Both the Americans and Mexicans speak Spanish. So what's the deal? Los Angeles (for example) is a Spanish place name. It's a clue.
Click to expand...
Bullshit. Most Americans can't speak Spanish. Of course, a Spanish speaking North America is probably the end goal of no-borders idiots. And you should get used to learning Arabic and giving up on pork and alcohol since you support mass migration of millions of Muslims.
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Or English, which is the language they speak. Swedes already know English. I've never met an American who couldn't speak Spanish. I'm not saying there aren't any. I just haven't met any.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Or English, which is the language they speak. Swedes already know English. I've never met an American who couldn't speak Spanish. I'm not saying there aren't any. I just haven't met any.
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Selection bias from too small a sample size.

The overwhelming majority of people in the US understand no Spanish. Of course immigrants from Spanish speaking countries, people in areas close to the Mexican border, and people in Hispanic areas in major cities will have a higher percentage of those who understand Spanish.
 
Democrats must look to Nevada for hope – and lessons on how to win

Tristan Scott said:
Now that my hangover is clearing up I'd like to share a few thoughts.
There was a very large volunteer effort here in Nevada,
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I thought you might be interested in this;

It’s a tough time for working people in the United States. Many of us are still reeling from the results of the election, in which our fellow citizens elected Donald Trump and allowed Republicans to keep control of both houses of Congress.

There were a few bright spots this week. Members of the Unite Here labor union were critical in keeping the battleground state of Nevada blue and defeating anti-immigrant Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio.
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Guardian

Roll on 2020 !
 
TSwizzle said:
I thought you might be interested in this;

It’s a tough time for working people in the United States. Many of us are still reeling from the results of the election, in which our fellow citizens elected Donald Trump and allowed Republicans to keep control of both houses of Congress.

There were a few bright spots this week. Members of the Unite Here labor union were critical in keeping the battleground state of Nevada blue and defeating anti-immigrant Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio.
Click to expand...

Guardian

Roll on 2020 !
Click to expand...
Yes, it's all so true. You don't need a lot, here in Henderson we worked out of the Steel Workers Union building. I'll tell you the guy that was in charge of the staff, I suppose he was a paid staffer, his name was Mathew, a young guy, mid to late twenties, made me realize that there are millennials out there who are focused and have their shit together. we need more and we need them in all states.
If you want to change things you gotta work for it, and really we all have to understand how incredibly important the congressional elections are. More important than the Presidential, really, because thats where change happens, congress, not the White House.
 
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