laughing dog
Contributor
The recommendations came from trained professionals at the University.
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University of Minnesota Sexual Assault Case
- Thread starter Nice Squirrel
- Start date
And you still haven't established what that training is and how it's supposed to be even close to what the detectives get. Let alone the practice they get.
And YOU have not established that you have the slightest idea what the university's findings really were. Let alone what any student was actually expelled for.
laughing dog
Contributor
You have not established that detectives necessarily get more training on how to deal with these cases. Nor have you established that detectives are trained to investigate violations of university rules. And you have not read the University report. Which means your views on the discipline are ignorance-based and ignorance-driven.
Godless Raven
Member
Wow. This case is horrible to read.
What's clear to me is that at least a half dozen people should be on trial for crimes, possibly more for this incident. I'm not even basing that on the words of the victim. I'm basing it on the statements of some of the accused. There are several incriminating statements made by accused people in this case making it clear this girl was saying no and did not want some of the sexual contact that was going on and NOBODY did a fucking thing to stop it, other than suggest maybe it should end, only to have the fucking rapist that started it all, and encouraged it all stop them and make it continue. Not one of the big tough football players was man enough to stop it at any point. Including those making the statements that she was saying no, or that it wasn't right, or that she flat out said "no".
The problem is her lapses in memories and the way she would be eaten alive in court because she probably consented to a threesome and possibly to one more partner that night, and we all know what happens in those cases. It's not a winnable case IMO.
Unbelievable that those animals are going to get away with an academic scar for this.
That girl is basically ruined now.
A2 & A5 should be locked up for a very long time, IMO.
Fuck all these pieces of shit, even the few assholes you want to give some credit to because they allegedly didn't have sex with her still did nothing to stop what was going on, even when she said no by their own account. Even when she said stop sending people in. They still had to have one more.
How is this clearly not rape for the very least the last person, then collusion to cover up a rape for the rest of the fuckers that stood by and did nothing?!???
What's clear to me is that at least a half dozen people should be on trial for crimes, possibly more for this incident. I'm not even basing that on the words of the victim. I'm basing it on the statements of some of the accused. There are several incriminating statements made by accused people in this case making it clear this girl was saying no and did not want some of the sexual contact that was going on and NOBODY did a fucking thing to stop it, other than suggest maybe it should end, only to have the fucking rapist that started it all, and encouraged it all stop them and make it continue. Not one of the big tough football players was man enough to stop it at any point. Including those making the statements that she was saying no, or that it wasn't right, or that she flat out said "no".
The problem is her lapses in memories and the way she would be eaten alive in court because she probably consented to a threesome and possibly to one more partner that night, and we all know what happens in those cases. It's not a winnable case IMO.
Unbelievable that those animals are going to get away with an academic scar for this.
That girl is basically ruined now.
A2 & A5 should be locked up for a very long time, IMO.
Fuck all these pieces of shit, even the few assholes you want to give some credit to because they allegedly didn't have sex with her still did nothing to stop what was going on, even when she said no by their own account. Even when she said stop sending people in. They still had to have one more.
How is this clearly not rape for the very least the last person, then collusion to cover up a rape for the rest of the fuckers that stood by and did nothing?!???
Nice Squirrel
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You can find it not only on the University of Minnesota's website and throughout the Title IX documents found on the Office of Civil Right's website. If you will read them I will link to them. But the history of you reading links is poor, so I will wait for you to ask before wasting all of our's time looking up and posting the links.
Derec
Contributor
It is cases like this that make me mistrust any university finding a male student guilty of sexual assault when actual police refuse to prosecute.
Why Any Male Student Should Think Twice Before Applying to Washington & Lee University
In this case, the university wanted to punish the male student even though the facts clearly showed that the sex was consensual.
Why Any Male Student Should Think Twice Before Applying to Washington & Lee University
In this case, the university wanted to punish the male student even though the facts clearly showed that the sex was consensual.
laughing dog
Contributor
Simple question - did you read the U. of Mn report? Yes or No.
Derec
Contributor
No. Did you ever sum up the evidence they claim they have that it was non-consensual?
laughing dog
Contributor
I am not going to do your homework for you.
Thank you for admitting you are posting out of complete ignorance of the actual facts of the case and the reasons for the discipline.
Arctish
Centimillionaire
They summed it up in their report. It's 80 pages long because there were so many witnesses and involved parties the report couldn't be made shorter without sacrificing accuracy or glossing over pertinent evidence.
If you had read the report, you would know that is a fucking stupid question.
I, for one, am not going to spoon-feed it to you. Go read the report, or be mocked mercilessly for your willful ignorance. There may be cases where you *might* have some sort of a point with your stupid question above, but this case isn't it. AND YOU WOULD KNOW THAT IF YOU BOTHERED TO EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE MOUTHING OFF ABOUT IT
Nice Squirrel
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Interesting. Very interesting. From your link it looks like the Cincinnati Police are running a traffic ticket racket aimed at the poors. Now can you tell us what this has to do with the Minnesota case?
Nice Squirrel
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Yes, there is a reason once the report was leaked opposition to the expulsion immediately evaporated.
Malintent
Veteran Member
I am certain you think I am one of those 'rape apologists', because I don't automatically assume a claim of rape was necessarily an actual rape until investigated and evidenced.
I read both reports in full. They practically read like two different incidents.
In the police report, the victim claims to have been drunk, flirtatious, and not sure if rape actually occurred. clear, verbal, and physical consent was given by the victim to have sex with two other men at the same time, however the victim appears to have thought there were three people when there were only two. As the incident continued, more men appeared on the scene and the testimony, photographs, and video footage taken by others nearby confirms the victim was outwardly welcoming and 'good natured' about it.
In the University report, a completely different story is written. In that story, consent was not given, she was held as a prisoner in a room with many men in it, and outwardly protested both verbally and physically. No physical evidence was provided that supported these claims, including the physical examination at the hospital the following day which did not reveal the expected injuries that would have occurred given this second version of the story.
My opinion after reading through over 100 pages... a three-way got out of hand in that it began to invite onlookers and additional participants and the woman did not say 'no'. The women acted coy, saying things like, "I can't take you all on" in a sarcastic tone, etc... The woman later regretted the event because many pictures and video of the event were taken, and uploaded to snapchat, instagram, and tinder... and people used her phone and account info to link it so she was clearly identified as the woman in the photos and videos...
She should have put limits on the encounter, didn't, and regretted it. This was 'retroactively rape, due to regret'.
The evidence collected by police was insufficient to arrest anyone for rape, because it wasn't
No evidence was collected by the U, but the new testimony was sufficient for them to apply their Sexual Harassment Policy.
Derec
Contributor
Don't know how that link got in there.
The correct one is
Why Any Male Student Should Think Twice Before Applying to Washington & Lee University
As to the wrong link, it's not about "running a traffic ticket racket aimed at the poors". It's about the author being an apologist for a guy who was driving despite his driver's licence being suspended indefinitely. That's not a racket. People like him should not be on the roads.
Derec
Contributor
Why is it a "stupid question"? Perhaps because the report does not actually give any evidence that the sex was nonconsensual?
The report is supposedly 80 pages long. A summery would certainly be in order.
Again: what evidence of any nonconsensual sex does this 80 page report contain? Because if it doesn't actually provide any evidence, then the punishment against the students was wrong and reading the report would be useless.
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I asked you to sum up the facts. That you and RavenSky and others are so adamantly opposed to stating those facts makes me think the entire 80 page report does not contain any actual facts or evidence.
Malintent
Veteran Member
Insufficient evidence of Rape is contained in the Police report.
Sufficient evidence of University Policy Violations are contained in the University Report.
Derec
Contributor
Is consensual group sex against university policy?
If there is no evidence of non-consent, her regretting it later or it being with more than one person should not be the matter for the university to punish anybody over.
We must end this idiotic doctrine that "regret equals rape" as far as university kangaroo courts are concerned.
Nice Squirrel
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The University cannot physical collect evidence in a criminal case. It also is forbidden from applying the same standard of evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" to assign responsibility as a criminal court would. These men do not have a criminal conviction on their record. Only the five that were expelled will have permanent mark on their transcript. The rest will have the event wiped from their transcript when the probations/suspensions are lifted.
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As was pointed out, the University of Minnesota and its findings are different than the police findings.