Not as important as petty rockets in Israel, but apparently Malaysian Airliner downed by rocket fire

[tupac chopra]

But I tell you what. I'm willing to give you a chance. Find the username and IP address of the person who made the first hyperbolic edit and demonstrate that it came from either a Ukrainian or US government source, and we'll call it even.

I don't know about this link, but a week or so ago the US government was caught out editting Wikipedia pages in a not dissimilar way. The IP address used came from a US govt IP address
Help from the Hill: Wikipedia-lovers from US House of Reps edited Russia articles

Several Wikipedia entries on Russia were edited by someone using the IP address of the US House of Representatives. Crimea was called “'de jure' part of Ukraine, illegally annexed by Russia” and RT host Abby Martin became “a Russian propagandist.”

The new ‘propagandist changes’ have been recorded by a Twitter bot that watches for anonymous Wikipedia edits from various IP addresses from the US Congress, reported Mashable, a British-American news website, technology and social media blog.

According to this Twitter bot, someone used the IP of the US House of Representatives and re-edited at least 13 articles on Monday July 14.

A few moments after the changes were made; another user re-edited all the articles back. The versions could be seen in Wikipedia section “Difference between revisions.”

I wonder where the Russians got the idea?

 

[tupac chopra]

Russia has been supplying weapons, training, support, and possibly personnel to the pro-Russian separatists in the region.

What evidence do you have for each of these assertions?

The only outfit challenging that consensus (or at least the loudest) is the Russian state-controlled media

Putin himself has repeatedly asked for evidence for these things.
But you'll not find many stories in the ,<cough> "free press of the west" about Putin doing this.

Because you are not allowed to run that sort of story on the front page. It's not allowed.

 

[Ford]

Putin has repeatedly asked for this evidence and none has been forthcoming.

Well there you have it, folks. Russian President Vladimir Putin doesn't support Russians. Just ask him.

 

[tupac chopra]

Putin has repeatedly asked for this evidence and none has been forthcoming.

Well there you have it, folks. Russian President Vladimir Putin doesn't support Russians. Just ask him.

Well Putin is clearly in a bind. Ukraine and the US are trying to provoke Putin, to get him involved so they have an excuse initiate more military activities. Putin is smart though and has refused to get involved, because he knows this is likely to make things worse.
He sees that the Europeans are less and less trustful of America and less and less keen to support American military action or even sanctions. So Putin is wanting to have good relations with Europe and sell them oil and gas. This will be tremendously good for Russia, and Putin is a strong nationalist.
Putin also knows that time is on Russia's side. The US is also in an awful predicament. It has an enormous debt and an humungous fiscal gap. America will likely never pay these bills. So Putin is showing himself to be a class act, by not reacting to the provocations.
His strategy is clear. The best way to stop the US war machine is buy undermining the dollar. And so he is doing that, with the gas deals recently signed which wont be settled in USD and the major announcements from this last week by the BRICS. Putin himself had this say about the deals done last week, [they were to be] "a system of measures that would help prevent the harassment of countries that do not agree with some foreign policy decisions made by the United States and their allies."
The USA is still pursuing the neocon agenda, but there is little they can do about other powers emerging in todays world.

In foreign policy, the neoconservatives' main concern is to prevent the development of a new rival. Defense Planning Guidance, a document prepared during 1992 by Under Secretary for Defense for Policy Paul Wolfowitz, is regarded by Distinguished Professor of the Humanities John McGowan at the University of North Carolina as the "quintessential statement of neoconservative thought". The report says:[68]

"Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power."

 

[Ford]

Putin is smart though and has refused to get involved, because he knows this is likely to make things worse.

Another breaking story!

Not only is Russian President Vladimir Putin dead set against supporting Russians, he has refused to get involved in anything happening in Ukraine!

Putin bravely resisted annexing Crimea, but those pesky Ukrainians and Obama forced his hand, for all intents and purposes Crimea has been made part of Russia due to the nefarious actions of the US and their western puppet states!

But Dear Leader is stalwart. Despite having a new territory forced upon his beloved Mother Russia by a sinister Western conspiracy, he has courageously refused to send anything other than prayers to the ethnic Russians living under the Nazi regime in Ukraine. Saint Putin has been stunned, though, by the ability of these Russians (whom he does not support in any way) to stand up to Ukraine's President Obama...or whatever his name is...and while he never has and never will send a single bullet or ruble to these fighters, he admires them for their tenacity.

Perhaps someday, when these separatist regions in Ukraine vote to become part of Russia with no prodding whatsoever from Moscow, Mahatma Putin will reluctantly and peacefully welcome them into the fold of the country which coincidentally keeps electing him President for some strange reason.

I mean...he doesn't even want to be President!

 

[tupac chopra]

There is nothing sinister here, except for those ignorant of the subject and/or who seek sinister explanations to the exclusion of all reason.

Any investigation must include the role of the Ukraine. Though strangely you and Loren don't seem to want that.
But the Russians are right.

“As we see it, it is necessary to investigate not only the crash itself but also how Ukraine's aviation authorities performed their professional duties,” Russia's Ambassador to the UN Vitaly Churkin said .

 

[tupac chopra]

Perhaps someday, when these separatist regions in Ukraine vote to become part of Russia with no prodding whatsoever from Moscow,.

Well what is the alternative? To be looted by the west. This is what happens when the IMF gets involved. Money is loaned (which goes to pay banks, not to people of the country), and then assets are sold off.
Ukraine is going to wish they never sided with America, after their poor country is looted. Mind you rich people like the new president is hardly going to care. With Putin they had a good deal. They had cheap gas.

 

[Ford]

With Putin they had a good deal. They had cheap gas.

Cheap gas aside, a serious question:

When the biography of Putin is written, do you think they should portray him as the greatest leader in the world, or the greatest leader in all of history?

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[tupac chopra]

With Putin they had a good deal. They had cheap gas.

Cheap gas aside, a serious question:
When the biography of Putin is written, do you think they should portray him as the greatest leader in the world, or the greatest leader in all of history?
Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel.

You 'Mericans are so funny Even if you do live behind the irony curtain.
Fortunately you 'Mericans have given us something relevant to all this though.
When we do find who did it we know what to do with them, because we have a precedent from when you guys shot down an Iranian passenger jet in Iranian territory.
Iran Air Flight 655

The United States did not apologize to Iran.[7] In 1996, the United States and Iran reached "an agreement in full and final settlement of all disputes, differences, claims, counterclaims" relating to the incident at the International Court of Justice.[8] As part of the settlement, the United States did not admit legal liability but agreed to pay US$61.8 million, amounting to $213,103.45 per passenger, in compensation to the families of the Iranian victims.

 

[Ford]

[ Even if you do live behind the irony curtain.

Oh, man...that was good. I see what you did there!

Irony curtain. Hilarious!

 

[tupac chopra]

It's curious that the tweets from the Spanish air traffic controller can no longer be accessed as his account was closed, but here is what this air traffic controller tweeted. (translated from Spanish)
It was Putin’s missile?

“The B777 was escorted by 2 Ukrainian fighter jets minutes before disappearing from radar (5.48pm)”

“If the Kiev authorities want to admit the truth 2 fighter jets were flying very close a few minutes before the incident but did not shoot down the airliner (5.54)”

“As soon as the Malaysia Airlines B777 disappeared the Kiev military authority informed us of the shooting down. How did they know? (6.00)”

"Everything has been recorded on radar. For those that don’t believe it, it was taken down by Kiev; we know that here (in traffic control) and the military air traffic control know it too (7.14)”

“The Ministry of the Interior did know that there were fighter aircraft in the area, but the Ministry of Defense didn’t. (7.15)”

“The military confirm that it was Ukraine, but it is not known where the order came from. (7.31)”

There also seems to be some suggestion that the plane could not have been downed by a BUK from the area claimed.

RESUME OF ANALYSIS: What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic capture and launch the rocket. If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent “chasing after” the airplane.

 

[Ford]

It's curious that the tweets from the Spanish air traffic controller can no longer be accessed as his account was closed, but here is what this air traffic controller tweeted. (translated from Spanish)
It was Putin’s missile?

Wow. That is an incredibly objective source which only presents facts and makes not a single editorial speculation regarding the events in question.

If only Western media could be so objective and dispassionate when presenting facts and not opinions.

 

[barbos]

Spanish air traffic controller? what was he doing in Ukraine controlling?
I heard SBU took all air-traffic recordings. Not sure if it's normal but what is really normal in Ukraine nowdays?

 

[barbos]

It's curious that the tweets from the Spanish air traffic controller can no longer be accessed as his account was closed, but here is what this air traffic controller tweeted. (translated from Spanish)
It was Putin’s missile?

Wow. That is an incredibly objective source which only presents facts and makes not a single editorial speculation regarding the events in question.

If only Western media could be so objective and dispassionate when presenting facts and not opinions.

It does op-eds too, everybody does.

 

[Kharakov]

Wow. That is an incredibly objective source which only presents facts and makes not a single editorial speculation regarding the events in question.

If only Western media could be so objective and dispassionate when presenting facts and not opinions.

It does op-eds too, everybody does.

Yeah. I know Op Ed, I served on the senate with Op Ed, and that article is no Op Ed.

 

[barbos]

It does op-eds too, everybody does.

Yeah. I know Op Ed, I served on the senate with Op Ed, and that article is no Op Ed.

Don't know it sounds pretty opinionated to me, the guy sounds almost like your typical McCain the senator.

 

[bilby]

Any investigation must include the role of the Ukraine. Though strangely you and Loren don't seem to want that.

Wow, your psychic powers are incredible! You know what I want the scope of the investigation to be, despite my not having said a single word about it.

If only you were not completely wrong, I would be impressed - rather than just scornful of your technique of determining truth by dogged adherence to the bullshit you read on conspiracist websites; and of assuming that anyone who disagrees with any part of your crazy thesis is part of a uniform opposition with a homogenous set of beliefs and desires.

Sorry to upset you, but the world is not that simple - Loren and I can both agree that you are wrong, without having to share any other common belief or position at all.

 

[barbos]

Any investigation must include the role of the Ukraine. Though strangely you and Loren don't seem to want that.

Wow, your psychic powers are incredible! You know what I want the scope of the investigation to be, despite my not having said a single word about it.

If only you were not completely wrong, I would be impressed - rather than just scornful of your technique of determining truth by dogged adherence to the bullshit you read on conspiracist websites; and of assuming that anyone who disagrees with any part of your crazy thesis is part of a uniform opposition with a homogenous set of beliefs and desires.

Sorry to upset you, but the world is not that simple - Loren and I can both agree that you are wrong, without having to share any other common belief or position at all.

But Loren is wrong too. Especially in his claim that it is sure as hell that Russia supplies weapons and specifically Buk system.

 

[bilby]

Wow, your psychic powers are incredible! You know what I want the scope of the investigation to be, despite my not having said a single word about it.

If only you were not completely wrong, I would be impressed - rather than just scornful of your technique of determining truth by dogged adherence to the bullshit you read on conspiracist websites; and of assuming that anyone who disagrees with any part of your crazy thesis is part of a uniform opposition with a homogenous set of beliefs and desires.

Sorry to upset you, but the world is not that simple - Loren and I can both agree that you are wrong, without having to share any other common belief or position at all.

But Loren is wrong too. Especially in his claim that it is sure as hell that Russia supplies weapons and specifically Buk system.

I agree.

There is no reason to think that any of the three main suspects could not have had the necessary hardware, or that they would need to rely on someone else to obtain or use it.

 

[barbos]

But Loren is wrong too. Especially in his claim that it is sure as hell that Russia supplies weapons and specifically Buk system.

I agree.

There is no reason to think that any of the three main suspects could not have had the necessary hardware, or that they would need to rely on someone else to obtain or use it.

True.
In other news US government supplied mexican drug cartels with weapons.
And ISIS seems to be using american equipment too. And georgian invasion into South Ossetia was done using US supplied weapons.
And Nicaragua Contras were supplied by CIA.
what else?