Not as important as petty rockets in Israel, but apparently Malaysian Airliner downed by rocket fire

[Ford]

So how much does it pay?


I mean, your job propagating Kremlin propaganda. Do you get free t-shirts? Or is there a drawing for an all expenses paid dacha?

So you are admitting that you lost the argument.

Which argument?

According to you, Putin makes Buddha look like a violent criminal. Putin is peace. Putin is the model for the rest of the world.

 

[barbos]

US does not want to wait for any investigation, they wanted to pass Security Council resolution calling it terror act. Guess who else supported such a ridiculous resolution? - nobody (well, besides Ukraine of course).

 

[Jayjay]

You mean the guy who gave the anti-aircraft missiles to the untrained idiots? Ya, I put a lot of the blame onto his shoulders.

It's probably best to wait before drawing conclusions. This whole thing is less than 2 days old. There has been no investigation. Yet you know who did it. You know where they got the weapons.
Sadly it's people like you who hastily rush to form conclusions before examining evidence who really will be to blame if WW3 breaks out. But you'll be safe in North America so it might not matter to you.
Here we have the two nations with by far the most nuclear weapons butting heads. It's a very dangerous situation for the entire planet. Yet to you it's some kind of joke apparently. There is a time joke, but when Russia and America are in this situation it is not the time. We need to make sure we get this right. We need to take time and examine the evidence rather than flippantly start casting blame before the evidence has been examined.

Then why are the rebels not letting the investigators to examine that evidence? USA and the western nations are the ones calling for the independent investigation here. It's the rebels or Russian authorities that are impeding it.

 

[barbos]

Then why are the rebels not letting the investigators to examine that evidence? USA and the western nations are the ones calling for the independent investigation here. It's the rebels or Russian authorities that are impeding it.

Who told you that? First thing they did was offering cease fire and access to anybody who can investigate it.
And Russia is not impeding anything, they are saying it should be investigated under normal rules and refused to take black boxes becase that would be violation of normal rules.
You are listening to garbage.

Russia has nothing to do with it and not interested in this shit at all. Common impression and mode of operation among russian officials/politicians is that somebody wants to get Russia involved and that Russia should do exactly the opposite. Whether or not this theory is true is not important what is important that russians actually act under that assumption.
Western Media keeps distorting facts acting as if it is clearly established fact that Russia gave the weapons to rebels and even helped to use them.

The fact is, in recent weeks Ukrainian "Army" suffered few rather painful losses from the rebels.
Other than pretty indiscriminate bombing they can't do anything. On the ground they are toasts.
I put "Army" in quotes because it is not really regular army. It consists from different units who have rather shaky legal status. They were assembled hastily from Maidan people, right sector and conscripts. They are not trained and the ones who are trained are not willing to fight. All that "zoo" has no meaningful command and really act on their own which in couple of cases resulted in devastating losses
So bombing is really all they are able to do. As for the rebels they have plenty of Soviet Union retired officers.
I am pretty sure some of them vaguely familiar even with sophisticated hardware which Ukraine has shitload of.

 

[tupac chopra]

It's probably best to wait before drawing conclusions. This whole thing is less than 2 days old. There has been no investigation. Yet you know who did it. You know where they got the weapons.
Sadly it's people like you who hastily rush to form conclusions before examining evidence who really will be to blame if WW3 breaks out. But you'll be safe in North America so it might not matter to you.
Here we have the two nations with by far the most nuclear weapons butting heads. It's a very dangerous situation for the entire planet. Yet to you it's some kind of joke apparently. There is a time joke, but when Russia and America are in this situation it is not the time. We need to make sure we get this right. We need to take time and examine the evidence rather than flippantly start casting blame before the evidence has been examined.

Then why are the rebels not letting the investigators to examine that evidence?

What investigators are you talking about?

USA and the western nations are the ones calling for the independent investigation here. It's the rebels or Russian authorities that are impeding it.

Russia has called for an independent investigation too.
Moscow calls for intl probe into Malaysia MH17 flight crash – Russia’s UN envoy The difference is the west has already pretty much decided who did it!!!
The Russians are asking for all possibilities to be considered. Examine all the evidence and then decide. It's pretty clear whose approach is better.

 

[tupac chopra]

According to you, Putin makes Buddha look like a violent criminal. Putin is peace. Putin is the model for the rest of the world.

Putin is defintely certainly clearly a man of peace compared to Obama and the neocons. That is an indisputable fact.
It may only be for practical reasons
Americans watch war from their loungerooms on their TV's. Most parts of the world experience it first hand. They see their children killed by American weapons, they feel the awful pain, they see their countries decimated and destroyed, by American weapons and often in American financed wars.
Russia can't afford a war, they know they must find a peaceful solution. They like much of Europe experienced the horror of war in their own lands in WW2.
America and most Americans don't care because war touches other parts of the world not them (for the most part).

 

[bilby]

I get the impression that the Russian government has no love for the separatists; Rather like the situation between the UVF and the British government in the 70s, the separatists love Russia and want to join, but the Russians don't want the separatists, and see them for the pathetic violent jerks that they are.

 

[tupac chopra]

Then why are the rebels not letting the investigators to examine that evidence? USA and the western nations are the ones calling for the independent investigation here. It's the rebels or Russian authorities that are impeding it.

The USA and their allies such as Australia, are not really calling for an independent investigation. They are calling for an independent investigation of Russia and the rebels.
It's like a stage hypnotist or psychological trickster, calling your attention to one place whilst ignoring what is going on elsewhere. The Ukraine had 27 BUK missile launchers some of which were deployed in the conflict zone. Yet everyone is strangely convinced that only Russia and the separatists must be investigated.
That is clearly madness. Yet madness can be more comfortable

 

[tupac chopra]

I get the impression that the Russian government has no love for the separatists; Rather like the situation between the UVF and the British government in the 70s, the separatists love Russia and want to join, but the Russians don't want the separatists, and see them for the pathetic violent jerks that they are.

Wrong. Russia has seen the trap laid out and has been to smart to take the bait. They know that the Ukraine and the USA have been trying to draw them into the Ukraine.
Once Russia moves in it gives the neocons the opportunity to demonise them and start a war.
Many commentators have written about this recently.
Russia is a society, unlike America England and Australia, that has endured a terrible and painful century. Whilst the comforts of the west tranquilise and delude them, the hard times in Russia have strengthened them. The west likes to demonise Russia but they are human beings like us and they are hardened by what they have been through. Even Putin has a touching humanity about him completely absent in the guffawing clowns who come to be president of the USA.

 

[barbos]

I get the impression that the Russian government has no love for the separatists; Rather like the situation between the UVF and the British government in the 70s, the separatists love Russia and want to join, but the Russians don't want the separatists, and see them for the pathetic violent jerks that they are.

Well, not exactly. Nobody views them as jerks but taking that region would cost too much. On the other hand current Ukrainian government is viewed as jerks. Russians were/are really surprised at how unrestrained and inflexible current Ukrainian Government is in dealing with separatists.
Basically they are thought to be crazy.
Russia would really like both sides to tone it down and find a way to coexist (autonomy or whatever) without Russia paying much for that
Ideally of course Russia wants friendly Ukraine (without NATO that is) and are ready to pay with gas for it. But I am afraid with Western Ukraine that's not gonna happen in near terms.

 

[tupac chopra]

but the Russians don't want the separatists, and see them for the pathetic violent jerks that they are.

So...an elected government got ousted in a violent coup, and some people in the west of the Ukraine didn't submit to the unelected new government. So the unelected coup government started killing them. Then the new dickhead who was elected continued attacking and killing the Eastern Ukrainians when he could have tried to unify the country.
But you think they are violent pathetic jerks?
It's tough when you live in England and Australia isn't is it? You can sit comfortably in your loungeroom and whine and whinge and never understand how most of the world lives.

 

[tupac chopra]

Moscow calls for intl probe into Malaysia MH17 flight crash – Russia’s UN envoy

Malaysia Airline said in a statement on Friday that Ukraine’s traffic controllers ordered the Boeing-777 to lower by 500 meters when the aircraft entered Ukrainian airspace. It added that pilots were supposed to fly at 35,000ft (10,660 meters) throughout Ukrainian airspace, but air traffic control on the ground instructed MH17 to fly at 33,000ft (10,058 meters).

Clearly any investigation needs to investigate the party that ordered the plane to fly lower than it was intended to. I guess Obama and other western leaders must be wanting that too. No? ...hmmm.. strange?

 

[bilby]

but the Russians don't want the separatists, and see them for the pathetic violent jerks that they are.

So...an elected government got ousted in a violent coup, and some people in the west of the Ukraine didn't submit to the unelected new government. So the unelected coup government started killing them. Then the new dickhead who was elected continued attacking and killing the Eastern Ukrainians when he could have tried to unify the country.
But you think they are violent pathetic jerks?
It's tough when you live in England and Australia isn't is it? You can sit comfortably in your loungeroom and whine and whinge and never understand how most of the world lives.

Well I hope you are not finding it TOO tough.

 

[Underseer]

Moscow calls for intl probe into Malaysia MH17 flight crash – Russia’s UN envoy

Malaysia Airline said in a statement on Friday that Ukraine’s traffic controllers ordered the Boeing-777 to lower by 500 meters when the aircraft entered Ukrainian airspace. It added that pilots were supposed to fly at 35,000ft (10,660 meters) throughout Ukrainian airspace, but air traffic control on the ground instructed MH17 to fly at 33,000ft (10,058 meters).

Clearly any investigation needs to investigate the party that ordered the plane to fly lower than it was intended to. I guess Obama and other western leaders must be wanting that too. No? ...hmmm.. strange?

Obviously, Obama did this on purpose as part of a vast and sinister conspiracy!!!!!!!!! [/conservolibertarian]

PS -- apologies for using the term "conspiracy." The politically correct term is "agenda." So sorry.

 

[tupac chopra]

So...an elected government got ousted in a violent coup, and some people in the west of the Ukraine didn't submit to the unelected new government. So the unelected coup government started killing them. Then the new dickhead who was elected continued attacking and killing the Eastern Ukrainians when he could have tried to unify the country.
But you think they are violent pathetic jerks?
It's tough when you live in England and Australia isn't is it? You can sit comfortably in your loungeroom and whine and whinge and never understand how most of the world lives.

Well I hope you are not finding it TOO tough.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Underseer]

Well I hope you are not finding it TOO tough.

What is that supposed to mean?

He's suggesting that you're not tough because he hates America and wants the terrorists to win!!!!!!!!! [/conservolibertarian]

 

[Jayjay]

Then why are the rebels not letting the investigators to examine that evidence?

What investigators are you talking about?

These guys, that were not getting full access as of yesterday:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28381460

The difference is the west has already pretty much decided who did it!!!
The Russians are asking for all possibilities to be considered. Examine all the evidence and then decide. It's pretty clear whose approach is better.

You are sounding like a creationist. Sure Russia is calling for investigation, just like everyone else, because Putin needs to keep up appearances. Can you show which western leaders are saying there should be no investigation?

 

[tupac chopra]

Moscow calls for intl probe into Malaysia MH17 flight crash – Russia’s UN envoy

Clearly any investigation needs to investigate the party that ordered the plane to fly lower than it was intended to. I guess Obama and other western leaders must be wanting that too. No? ...hmmm.. strange?

Obviously, Obama did this on purpose as part of a vast and sinister conspiracy!!!!!!!!! [/conservolibertarian]
PS -- apologies for using the term "conspiracy." The politically correct term is "agenda." So sorry.

Well as the USA has supported the Kiev government, even the unelected nazis who took power, then the only option for them is to not do a real investigation but to only investigate possibilities that fit with their agenda.
Even though the Ukrainians were the only ones in the conflict zone who definitely had active BUK missile launchers, it's not acceptable to investigate them.

Americans can laugh this off and make jokes....which means...what? It means they enjoy their sedatives. Sweet dreams

 

[Underseer]

Obviously, Obama did this on purpose as part of a vast and sinister conspiracy!!!!!!!!! [/conservolibertarian]
PS -- apologies for using the term "conspiracy." The politically correct term is "agenda." So sorry.

Well as the USA has supported the Kiev government, even the unelected nazis who took power, then the only option for them is to not do a real investigation but to only investigate possibilities that fit with their agenda.
Even though the Ukrainians were the only ones in the conflict zone who definitely had active BUK missile launchers, it's not acceptable to investigate them.

Americans can laugh this off and make jokes....which means...what? It means they enjoy their sedatives. Sweet dreams

Yes, but how is this related to Obama's gun confiscation conspiracy (I mean agenda. Sorry. Meant to say "agenda")? [/conservolibertarian]

 

[bilby]

Well I hope you are not finding it TOO tough.

What is that supposed to mean?

Apparently I am engaged in a battle of wits against an un-armed opponent.