A discussion of the “biology” of sex, by gender

[Emily Lake]

I stopped asking my wife how it was for her after she said "How was what ?".

Cheeky mare

it's so fucking bizarre to me being part of a culture where that sort of mentality is considered even remotely acceptable...

i'm not saying that to call you out tswizzle, it's a very common generalization to make about the relationship between husbands and wives, but it just boggles my mind.

Got to defend Twizzle here. Sometimes little jokes between spouses about sex are actually GOOD for the relationship. I've been married long enough to know there are going to be AWESOME encounters with my husband, but there are also going to be meh encounters and occasionally not worth the effort times (by both of us)....Here's the thing, my husband and I know and trust each other well enough to not be offended by it and even laugh when either of us make a joke about it. Come on........haven't you ever accidentally tooted in an inopportune moment...? OMG, it's funny!!

Lol... "Well, I suppose rolling you up in a ball is bound to have some unexpected consequences"... "That was awesome, except for the part where you squashed my balls"... "Is that your elbow or mine?".... "Ok, does the book say how to get out of this position now?"

Our sex involves a lot of talking, and a lot of laughing. It's part of what makes it fun.

 

[ruby sparks]

The thing is, when it comes to sex, the only data that counts is what a specific individual likes with a specific individual at a specific point in time under specific conditions.

It doesn’t matter if 99% of the women responding to 100 surveys said they liked it or what the last 17 girls you shagged said they liked it; it only matters what the person you’re currently shagging likes.

That’s the only data point that matters.

The problem here is that anecdotal evidence and the subjective opinions do not mean evidence. It's very easy to claim something is true, but that does not mean that it's actually true, and until there is solid evidence we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior.

Ha ha ha ha ha...

Seriously? Well, I suppose the anecdotal evidence and subjective opinions of oppressed minorities in the 1940s really didn't mean anything. I mean, it definitely didn't mean that it was actually true that black people were treated differently and expected to just be okay with it. I mean, we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior, right?

Sheesh.

As someone who is generally keen enough to get as much objectivity as possible on discussion topics that he nearly had 'the plural of anecdote is not data' tattooed on his willy a while back*, I found the above a bit perplexing. I mean, yes, it should matter most to one individual what his or her significant other experiences, and yes we can't automatically discount anecdote necessarily, but.....(a) I thought we were more meant to be doing the general issue and (b) it doesn't seem that hard to (b1) find some data and (b2) find some data that suggests that women having pain during sex is very common.

"We found, for example, that about 30% of all women ages 18 to 59 reported some difficulty with pain the last time that they had sex. This compares to about 5% of men who reported difficulty with pain."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-pleasures-sex/201010/why-does-sex-hurt-1-in-3-women

"The landmark “Sex In America” survey estimates that sexual pain afflicts 20 percent of American women—15 percent before menopausal, 33 percent after."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...es-intercourse-hurt-guide-women-s-sexual-pain

I can't vouch for the accuracy of that data (though I see no good reason to doubt it either). It's literally just the top two hits that came up on google when I entered, "does sex hurt women?".





* In uppercase letters 25mm tall. Just sayin'.

 

[Emily Lake]

well, i'd argue that to be "good at sex" on a physical level a woman's partner needs to be specifically skilled and learned in how to be good at it (or lucky enough to have a knack for it without any notable instruction), and to be "good at sex" for a man on a physical level you need a hole that's preferably moist into which we can thrust repeatedly.

there are obviously going to be extreme outliers to this, but as a general rule i think that most men can only be good at sex if they try, whereas most women can only be bad at sex if they try.

That's utter bullshit, and very offensive.

What skills do you believe a man need have in order to be good at sex, and how easy are they to develop?
What skills do you believe a woman need have in order to be good at sex, and how easy are they to develop?

 

[Emily Lake]

Ha ha ha ha ha...

Seriously? Well, I suppose the anecdotal evidence and subjective opinions of oppressed minorities in the 1940s really didn't mean anything. I mean, it definitely didn't mean that it was actually true that black people were treated differently and expected to just be okay with it. I mean, we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior, right?

Sheesh.

As someone who is generally keen enough to get as much objectivity as possible on discussion topics that he nearly had 'the plural of anecdote is not data' tattooed on his willy a while back*, I found the above a bit perplexing. I mean, yes, it should matter most to one individual what his or her significant other experiences, and yes we can't automatically discount anecdote necessarily, but.....(a) I thought we were meant to be doing a general issue and (b) it doesn't seem that hard to (b1) find some data and (b2) find some data that suggests that women having pain during sex is very common.

"We found, for example, that about 30% of all women ages 18 to 59 reported some difficulty with pain the last time that they had sex. This compares to about 5% of men who reported difficulty with pain."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-pleasures-sex/201010/why-does-sex-hurt-1-in-3-women

"The landmark “Sex In America” survey estimates that sexual pain afflicts 20 percent of American women—15 percent before menopausal, 33 percent after."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...es-intercourse-hurt-guide-women-s-sexual-pain

I can't vouch for the accuracy of that data (though I see no good reason to doubt it either). It's literally just the first two hits that came up on google when I entered, "does sex hurt women?'.





* In uppercase letters 25mm tall. Just sayin'.

I could be wrong, but I thought that those studies had already been referenced early in this thread, and had been dismissed by some parties as not being 'rigorous' enough studies or something of that ilk. But to be fair, I've been bouncing around between a few different discussions on different boards, so I could easily have gotten the threads confused.

 

[ruby sparks]

I could be wrong, but I thought that those studies had already been referenced early in this thread, and had been dismissed by some parties as not being 'rigorous' enough studies or something of that ilk. But to be fair, I've been bouncing around between a few different discussions on different boards, so I could easily have gotten the threads confused.

I wondered that too but did a quick scan and didn't find them (or indeed many links to data at all) in this thread here.

 

[rousseau]

Ha ha ha ha ha...

Seriously? Well, I suppose the anecdotal evidence and subjective opinions of oppressed minorities in the 1940s really didn't mean anything. I mean, it definitely didn't mean that it was actually true that black people were treated differently and expected to just be okay with it. I mean, we don't really know the full reason behind the behavior, right?

Sheesh.

As someone who is generally keen enough to get as much objectivity as possible on discussion topics that he nearly had 'the plural of anecdote is not data' tattooed on his willy a while back*, I found the above a bit perplexing. I mean, yes, it should matter most to one individual what his or her significant other experiences, and yes we can't automatically discount anecdote necessarily, but.....(a) I thought we were more meant to be doing the general issue and (b) it doesn't seem that hard to (b1) find some data and (b2) find some data that suggests that women having pain during sex is very common.

"We found, for example, that about 30% of all women ages 18 to 59 reported some difficulty with pain the last time that they had sex. This compares to about 5% of men who reported difficulty with pain."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-pleasures-sex/201010/why-does-sex-hurt-1-in-3-women

"The landmark “Sex In America” survey estimates that sexual pain afflicts 20 percent of American women—15 percent before menopausal, 33 percent after."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...es-intercourse-hurt-guide-women-s-sexual-pain

I can't vouch for the accuracy of that data (though I see no good reason to doubt it either). It's literally just the top two hits that came up on google when I entered, "does sex hurt women?".





* In uppercase letters 25mm tall. Just sayin'.

Those studies don't contradict the point I was making. My point had nothing to do with whether or not women experience pain, clearly they do.

My point was that the original article in the original post hinges on the assumption that women are socialized to ignore their pain, that society at large is teaching women to ignore their pain, and yet doesn't provide evidence this this is the reason for the behavior.

I then went on to agree with the article's over-arching theme that we need to encourage healthy discussions surrounding sex, even though I thought the source of that conclusion may be incorrect.

This isn't a particularly controversial point, but I think it speaks to the dogma that floats in threads like these, that my post was mis-interpreted in the way that it was.

 

[ruby sparks]

I should add that as a man I am surprised the figures are that high. I didn't really appreciate or realise it was so common.

Whoops. I hoped to get that in before anyone else posted. Not to worry. It's an add on to my previous post.

 

[ruby sparks]

Those studies don't contradict the point I was making. My point had nothing to do with whether or not women experience pain, clearly they do.

My point was that the original article in the original post hinges on the assumption that women are socialized to ignore their pain, that society at large is teaching women to ignore their pain, and yet doesn't provide evidence this this is the reason for the behavior.

I'm on record as saying that I don't think it was a very good article in some ways. As for whether it assumes that women are socialised to ignore their pain, I'd have to re-read it, but if it did then that would not be fab, imo. That said, I'd be very surprised to find it wasn't true, to some extent, not least because I tend to think we're all socialised to ignore stuff. Boys are probably socialised to ignore pain too, of course, just not during sex by and large ('big boys don't cry' etc).

 

[Toni]

I read somewhere that certain types of food can significantly reduce a woman's sexual appetite.

One of them, apparently, is wedding cake.

Boom boom.

I've been with my partner for 5 years and we're not married yet. Can assure you it's not wedding cake.

Some common culprits:

Stress
Time stress (too much to do, not enough down time to relax. This means: not enough time for the person experiencing the decrease in appetite, not the partner who is tired of waiting and may unconsciously and unwittingly be placing stress on their reluctant partner, perpetuating the issue)
Medications including all forms of hormonal birth control, and certainly things like anti depressants are known culprits.
Pressure to want or to enjoy sex more or more often. Does not have to be externally provided. Can be entirely motivated.
Not feeling heard/listened to/ appreciated
Fear of pregnancy
Fear of not being able to get pregnant
Not being used to listening to one's own body
'Forgetting' how much you like sex. This seems counter intuitive but frankly, it happens. Sometimes because of all kinds of things but most often, stress, couples fall out of the habit of having sex, which can lead one or the other or both to simply forget to want it or to forget that they want it. One's heart does learn to not want what one cannot have.
Suppressed emotions, especially anger

Note: all of the above except hormonal birth control can apply equally to men.

Seriously, some down time away from the usual schedule of things to do, places to go can really help. Do NOT schedule it as a family vacation or to go with friends or to meet up with friends/family. Just: go. Anywhere quiet.

 

[ruby sparks]

I read somewhere that certain types of food can significantly reduce a woman's sexual appetite.

One of them, apparently, is wedding cake.

Boom boom.

I've been with my partner for 5 years and we're not married yet. Can assure you it's not wedding cake.

I'm thinking I may not have told hat joke very well. Either that or I'm being a bit dim when processing your reply.

The joke was meant to suggest that women go off sex after they're married.

It's not even true of course.

They don't go off sex until they've had kids.

Ok that's not always true either. And anyway there are good reasons for it.

One of the guys in my football team told that joke in the locker room a while back.

Oh bollocks, I've just belatedly understood your reply! Lol

 

[rousseau]

I read somewhere that certain types of food can significantly reduce a woman's sexual appetite.

One of them, apparently, is wedding cake.

Boom boom.

I've been with my partner for 5 years and we're not married yet. Can assure you it's not wedding cake.

Some common culprits:

Stress
Time stress (too much to do, not enough down time to relax. This means: not enough time for the person experiencing the decrease in appetite, not the partner who is tired of waiting and may unconsciously and unwittingly be placing stress on their reluctant partner, perpetuating the issue)
Medications including all forms of hormonal birth control, and certainly things like anti depressants are known culprits.
Pressure to want or to enjoy sex more or more often. Does not have to be externally provided. Can be entirely motivated.
Not feeling heard/listened to/ appreciated
Fear of pregnancy
Fear of not being able to get pregnant
Not being used to listening to one's own body
'Forgetting' how much you like sex. This seems counter intuitive but frankly, it happens. Sometimes because of all kinds of things but most often, stress, couples fall out of the habit of having sex, which can lead one or the other or both to simply forget to want it or to forget that they want it. One's heart does learn to not want what one cannot have.
Suppressed emotions, especially anger

Note: all of the above except hormonal birth control can apply equally to men.

Seriously, some down time away from the usual schedule of things to do, places to go can really help. Do NOT schedule it as a family vacation or to go with friends or to meet up with friends/family. Just: go. Anywhere quiet.

It's not an actual issue for us, mostly just aging. We've recently made the transition from our late twenties to early thirties

Truth be told even I'm slowing down. I'm certainly not dead yet, but sex isn't super high on my priority list these days.

 

[bilby]

I read somewhere that certain types of food can significantly reduce a woman's sexual appetite.

One of them, apparently, is wedding cake.

Boom boom.

I've been with my partner for 5 years and we're not married yet. Can assure you it's not wedding cake.

I'm thinking I may not have told hat joke very well. Either that or I'm being a bit dim when processing your reply.

The joke was meant to suggest that women go off sex after they're married.

It's not even true of course.

They don't go off sex until they've had kids.

Ok that's not always true either. And anyway there are good reasons for it.

One of the guys in my football team told that joke in the locker room a while back.

I sometimes get the feeling that most leftpondians are incapable of detecting humour in the absence of a laugh-track.

 

[rousseau]

Those studies don't contradict the point I was making. My point had nothing to do with whether or not women experience pain, clearly they do.

My point was that the original article in the original post hinges on the assumption that women are socialized to ignore their pain, that society at large is teaching women to ignore their pain, and yet doesn't provide evidence this this is the reason for the behavior.

I'm on record as saying that I don't think it was a very good article in some ways. As for whether it assumes that women are socialised to ignore their pain, I'd have to re-read it, but if it did then that would not be fab, imo. That said, I'd be very surprised to find it wasn't true, to some extent, not least because I tend to think we're all socialised to ignore stuff. Boys are probably socialised to ignore pain too, of course, just not during sex by and large ('big boys don't cry' etc).

I have some thoughts on that, but that's where we end up going down the rabbit hole.

 

[ruby sparks]

I sometimes get the feeling that most leftpondians are incapable of detecting humour in the absence of a laugh-track.

Such a feeling would be awry in this case. I was being dim and slow on the uptake.

- - - Updated - - -

I have some thoughts on that, but that's where we end up going down the rabbit hole.

Yes, I'd forgotten about anal.

Kidding.

No seriously, you and I won't go down a rabbit hole. Shoot away (as the actress said to the bishop).

 

[prideandfall]

well, i'd argue that to be "good at sex" on a physical level a woman's partner needs to be specifically skilled and learned in how to be good at it (or lucky enough to have a knack for it without any notable instruction), and to be "good at sex" for a man on a physical level you need a hole that's preferably moist into which we can thrust repeatedly.

there are obviously going to be extreme outliers to this, but as a general rule i think that most men can only be good at sex if they try, whereas most women can only be bad at sex if they try.

That's utter bullshit, and very offensive.

What skills do you believe a man need have in order to be good at sex, and how easy are they to develop?
What skills do you believe a woman need have in order to be good at sex, and how easy are they to develop?

heh was that directed at me or at oster?

 

[Emily Lake]

I read somewhere that certain types of food can significantly reduce a woman's sexual appetite.

One of them, apparently, is wedding cake.

Boom boom.

I've been with my partner for 5 years and we're not married yet. Can assure you it's not wedding cake.

I'm thinking I may not have told hat joke very well. Either that or I'm being a bit dim when processing your reply.

The joke was meant to suggest that women go off sex after they're married.

It's not even true of course.

They don't go off sex until they've had kids.

Ok that's not always true either. And anyway there are good reasons for it.

One of the guys in my football team told that joke in the locker room a while back.

Oh bollocks, I've just belatedly understood your reply! Lol

You are not alone. I started to reply to rousseau earlier with an explanation that you were just making a joke... and had typed up a very thorough explanation before I realized that rousseau was also making a joke

- - - Updated - - -

What skills do you believe a man need have in order to be good at sex, and how easy are they to develop?
What skills do you believe a woman need have in order to be good at sex, and how easy are they to develop?

heh was that directed at me or at oster?

Directed at Jon Osterman.

 

[Toni]

I'm thinking I may not have told hat joke very well. Either that or I'm being a bit dim when processing your reply.

The joke was meant to suggest that women go off sex after they're married.

It's not even true of course.

They don't go off sex until they've had kids.

Ok that's not always true either. And anyway there are good reasons for it.

One of the guys in my football team told that joke in the locker room a while back.

I sometimes get the feeling that most leftpondians are incapable of detecting humour in the absence of a laugh-track.

Huh. I guess humor means something different on your side of the pond. Over here, it's usually funny in some way.

 

[TSwizzle]

Foreplay in Australia; "Brace yourself, Sheila."

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.

 

[bilby]

Overheard at an Australian singles bar:

"G'day Shiela, do you fuck?"

"Not until now, ya smooth talking bastard".

 

[ruby sparks]

Still enjoying the thread. Hope it's ok to post another dodgy joke while waiting for more substantive posts.

Did you hear about the Irish guy who went to live in New York? He would ask American women that he met in a bar if they had any Irish in them and if not would they like some?