barbos
Contributor
How come no thread about that? Looks like it could be real this time. I think Trump scared them both into this.
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North and South Koreas are normalizing relation
- Thread starter barbos
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Because it's a Trump win. Folks around here hate Trump so anything that makes him look good they'll ignore. If this does lead to peace / nuke-free Korea, he should win the Noble Peace Prize. But he's Trump, so they won't happen.
Derec
Contributor
Except Charlie Brown should be Moon Jae-in this time.
zorq
Veteran Member
This might lead to a peace treaty but the only thing I really predict changing here in the short term is a reduction of North Korean landmines snuck into place along South Korean Patrol paths.
I predict the North won't ever give up it's Nukes or it's long range missiles. Kim Jong Un's goal here might only be some better trade agreements and lifting of UN sanctions. Sabre rattling has not been as profitable for this Kim like it has for his ancestors, so it's time to try a different tactic.
As for thanking Trump for this turn , I seriously doubt his contribution to the conversation was significant. When was the last time an asshole yelling insults at you caused you to change your mind? I'm guessing never.
The key factor might have been the Winter Olympics this year. Combine the fact that Kim Jong Un is actually a big sports fan, and the fact that all the North Korean Athletes performed so poorly at an Olympics run exquisitely by the South Koreans just 50 miles away from the DMZ, and you might have a cocktail strong enough to inspire a despot to change political tactics.
North Korea didn't bother to broadcast or print ANY news or coverage of this Olympics at home, despite covering every other Olympics since Athens in 2004. Why? I think Kim is happy living his life as a despot, but he knows his country is an embarrassment. The Olympics is a perfect highlight of this shame to Mr. sports fan, Kim.
Eh, that's my two cents.
I predict the North won't ever give up it's Nukes or it's long range missiles. Kim Jong Un's goal here might only be some better trade agreements and lifting of UN sanctions. Sabre rattling has not been as profitable for this Kim like it has for his ancestors, so it's time to try a different tactic.
As for thanking Trump for this turn , I seriously doubt his contribution to the conversation was significant. When was the last time an asshole yelling insults at you caused you to change your mind? I'm guessing never.
The key factor might have been the Winter Olympics this year. Combine the fact that Kim Jong Un is actually a big sports fan, and the fact that all the North Korean Athletes performed so poorly at an Olympics run exquisitely by the South Koreans just 50 miles away from the DMZ, and you might have a cocktail strong enough to inspire a despot to change political tactics.
North Korea didn't bother to broadcast or print ANY news or coverage of this Olympics at home, despite covering every other Olympics since Athens in 2004. Why? I think Kim is happy living his life as a despot, but he knows his country is an embarrassment. The Olympics is a perfect highlight of this shame to Mr. sports fan, Kim.
Eh, that's my two cents.
I agree. Credit where credit is due. A couple of things:
The test site where the nuke was set off in January caused a tunnel collapse and deaths of a couple of hundred semi-skilled workers; something North Korea is in short supply. No activity has been reported after the failed rescue operation in that area either, which suggests the one and only North Korean nuclear testing site has been destroyed or rendered unusable.
North Korea is no longer broke, it is utterly, utterly penniless. No one has been able to explain to me how one can create and maintain a nuclear weapons program on credit. Partly, I suspect, is because it is not possible, not even in a Tom Clancy wet dream.
So North Korea doesn't have to ability to continue their nuclear program, and are asking for a consolation prize. If that's the case, Trump "solved" North Korea the same way Reagan "won" The Cold War; purely by circumstance.
It is beautiful, and the role reversals are hilarious with Trump and the Democrats. Hillary was a war hawk. Trump is apparently trying to usher in peace and doing it more effectively than anybody else has in Korea. Isn't the Democrat and Republican usually the other way around? Same with the fearmongering about Russia. That used to be Republicans afraid of the reds, didn't it?
Underseer
Contributor
Yes, this is all part of a sinister conspiracy by liberals to fail to praise Trump for his great accomplishments and genius! No doubt the Liberal Jew Media is behind this. The Bilderbergs and George Soros are probably funding the whole thing!
SimpleDon
Veteran Member
I think that it is a combination of sanity coming to grips with the insane militaristic brinkmanship of Donald Trump coupled with Kim's desire to consolidate his win of becoming a legitimate nuclear power.
I am open to the argument that Trump's brinkmanship was nothing but a negotiating ploy but it would require that someone else in the military or the administration were read into the ploy.
LordKiran
Veteran Member
Clearly some "Give credit where due" people have a short memory. Haven't we seen this play out before? NK goes on doing what it does unopposed, makes promises of peace and cooperation to remove sanctions and then just goes right back to what they do?
I mean really all this lip service doesn't cost Kim anything, and that's exactly what it is: lip service.
I mean really all this lip service doesn't cost Kim anything, and that's exactly what it is: lip service.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
Since his test site went kablooey, he might as well try to get something for it.
T.G.G. Moogly
Traditional Atheist
As far as Trump loyalists are concerned, Guam could have been nuked and "who gets praise for what" would not have changed.
Trump is no more creditworthy in this instance than any politician who happens to get elected at a certain time.
The question is whether anyone should be getting credit for anything beyond lip service at this point because nothing has as of yet actually changed.
Trump is no more creditworthy in this instance than any politician who happens to get elected at a certain time.
The question is whether anyone should be getting credit for anything beyond lip service at this point because nothing has as of yet actually changed.
If dealing with another unstable psycho who might just nuke him is what it ends up taking for Kim to sign a real agreement, then Trump does deserve credit for being the right man for the job. The North Koreans have spent decades pursuing a strategy of being the craziest guys in the room and betting that the other side would only go so far. That may not be a safe bet with Trump on the other side and if that ends up being effective then that’s a good thing, even if it means giving Trukp credit for a job well done.
LordKiran
Veteran Member
What are the odds someone outside of NK had something to do with that?
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
Very steep, I'd guess.
But the rule seems to be that if the winds of whatever fortune Trump likes to bleat about turns favorable, he gets credit.
Ford
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Yep. I'm of the opinion that the reason the South Korean officials are giving Fragilego Mussolini credit is because they need him in the loop and know that the best way to get him on board is to fluff him publicly. He gets to chalk it up as a win for his administration, even though he didn't actually do anything other than tweet.
Then under cover of "peace in our time" Little Rocket Man gets to hang onto his family's personal fiefdom TFN.
Tigers!
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Did you feel the same way when Obama got his Nobel prize for doing exactly what?
braces_for_impact
Veteran Member
I did. I thought giving Obama the Peace Prize was merely a knee-jerk reaction to no longer having to deal with Dubbya.
Like others, I think putting this into the "win" column is premature. This isn't all that new. Also, there's the test site collapse. Trump has already come out and said that all this was due to him. Let's just say I have my doubts. I'm open to changing my mind. I admit to do so I would be admitting Trump's victory through my own clenched teeth, but I would admit to it. It doesn't take a whole lot of hard looking to find liberals that would give credit where it's due, once we know more details.
Otherwise what we know so far is that NK has run this type of schtick before (admittedly not going quite so far), we know that Trump basically did a cluster fuck "Tell Kim I'll meet with him" moment in the White House with some Korean diplomats, we know that Trump humpers will take any opportunity to exaggerate the success of any undertaking the Orange one performs (I'm looking at you Scott Adams) and we know that NK has 'sploded their test site.
Considering the sudden drastic change in attitude, it wouldn't be unreasonable to attribute this to either 1) The test site damage or 2) NK lying their asses off. After all, Trump has been threatening to go off the rails for some time now and NK didn't seem exactly frightened of the Orange tough guy act. Of course there could be stuff going on behind the scenes we simply don't know about to cause the sudden apparent cooperation of NK. There is, honestly one other thought I had about this. If I were Kim Jong Un and I was paying attention to US politics and my country was broke and I just lost my only nuclear test site worth mentioning, I would try to get concessions from the US now, while Trump is in charge. This is because it isn't difficult to tell that Trump is plainly stupid, and a poor negotiator, and will probably give away the farm to come away with a "win" he can point to in the US.
Copernicus
Industrial Grade Linguist
The very last person who merits a Nobel Peace Prize is Donald Trump. Even Obama was puzzled when he was awarded his (as he well should have been), but Donald Trump has done more to destabilize world peace than any President in living memory. The best argument that can be made here is that Trump's antics have so frightened China that it finally gave Kim no option but to take advantage of South Korean President Moon's campaign promise to improve relations with the North. If anyone deserves a Peace Prize, it is Moon.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump has ramped up tensions with China and other nations with his tariff threats. He has pulled out of the Paris treaty. He is about to pull out of the historic agreement with Iran. He has done all he could to damage the growing rapprochement with Cuba. He has angered Muslim nations with his hostile rhetoric and worsened relations with European allies. As far as Korea goes, Donald Trump has yet to meet with Kim, and nobody knows how that will go. All Kim wants is to sit down with him and be treated as a legitimate world leader--something that he has never gotten in the past. And he gives up nothing at all for that except vague promises of denuclearization--which North Korean news services are downplaying.
So no. Donald Trump does not deserve a Nobel Peace Prize. That would be an incredible embarrassment for the Nobel Prize Committee.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump has ramped up tensions with China and other nations with his tariff threats. He has pulled out of the Paris treaty. He is about to pull out of the historic agreement with Iran. He has done all he could to damage the growing rapprochement with Cuba. He has angered Muslim nations with his hostile rhetoric and worsened relations with European allies. As far as Korea goes, Donald Trump has yet to meet with Kim, and nobody knows how that will go. All Kim wants is to sit down with him and be treated as a legitimate world leader--something that he has never gotten in the past. And he gives up nothing at all for that except vague promises of denuclearization--which North Korean news services are downplaying.
So no. Donald Trump does not deserve a Nobel Peace Prize. That would be an incredible embarrassment for the Nobel Prize Committee.