laughing dog
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IN the USA, there has not been a time when identity politics has not been used.
"Becoming"? It has always been "US vs THEM" - all that has changed are the identities of "US" and "THEM".
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Hatred of Obama
- Thread starter JohnG
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I guess what I'm asking is, was it a specific policy that Obama legislated that really upset a specific group of people, like maybe pilling out of Iraq for some reason, IDK, or is it just bipartisanship or worse, just plain ugly racism.
....or something completely different altogether (he really IS the hesd of a satanic cult
You're apparently not reading our responses. Obama is black and a Democrat. Our current right wing authoritarian disease doesn't care about anything else. Literally ANYTHING he did was taken as an affront to those morons, especially when he took THEIR healthcare plan and implemented it as the Affordable Healthcare Act.
I'm not joking when I say do not expect logic or reason from our current batch of Republicans. They are ideologically diseased. You might as well try to reason with a drunk. It's just not going to happen.
I'm offended as a recovering drunk.
Was a good portion of opposition to Obama due to pure racism? Yep, and I've been saying that for years. Same folks listening to Limbaugh, same folks that were enraged to see black people happy that a qualified black man was elected president, same ones that applauded the murders of Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner, and Tamir rice, among many others. Same people who ranted about the "whitey" tape. Same people who insisted that Obama was "the real racist", while also saying that the ACA and the stimulus bill were really "reparations" or "Kenyan anti-Colonialism".
Same people that cheered when Dolt 45 repeatedly attacked black, Hispanic, and muslim people.
Same ones that said Heather Heyer really died of a heart attack.
Same folks that raged in Gamergate.
It's not all republicans, and it's not only republicans. But it is the folks that hated the most qualified black person to run for the presidency, and love the least qualified white guy to run in 2016.
I guess what I'm asking is, was it a specific policy that Obama legislated that really upset a specific group of people, like maybe pilling out of Iraq for some reason, IDK, or is it just bipartisanship or worse, just plain ugly racism.
....or something completely different altogether (he really IS the hesd of a satanic cult
You're apparently not reading our responses. Obama is black and a Democrat. Our current right wing authoritarian disease doesn't care about anything else. Literally ANYTHING he did was taken as an affront to those morons, especially when he took THEIR healthcare plan and implemented it as the Affordable Healthcare Act.
I'm not joking when I say do not expect logic or reason from our current batch of Republicans. They are ideologically diseased. You might as well try to reason with a drunk. It's just not going to happen.
I'm offended as a recovering drunk.
My apologies. Right wing authoritarianism is a mentality, or a personality, or a psychosocial phenomenon. A delineated party identity is the least accurate characterization of RWAs. It's just that right wing ideology is both strongly appealing to RWAs and strongly reinforces RWA traits, so naturally it pools heavily to the right and among the fundamentalist religious. This personality exists among liberals but in miniscule proportions. (There's at least one person here that I suspect of this. lol)
ronburgundy
Contributor
Nowhere near half of US citizens voted for Trump. Less than 25% did and few of them voted for Obama. Most of them have been racists the whole time. The few that did vote Obama in 2008 did so mostly out of historical Union loyalty to the Dems and Dem's better track record on labor interests, and because of the severe harm they suffered under Bush. Among "blue collar" democrats who traditionally voted Dem only for economic reasons, there has always been plenty of racism, misogyny and most other anti-progressive cultural values. But short of extreme, short-sighted trade wars (of the sort Trump is now engaging in) there has been little the Dems could do to stem these economic changes and painful transitional period. Frustrated, some of these blue collar white democrats bought into the scapegoating propaganda of the alt-right which resonated with the bigotries and xenophobia many of them were already prone to.
There are vocal elements of the left that are unreasonable and actually anti-liberal. However, no one other than white supremacists think this is remotely as big a problem as the far more pervasive white supremacy and other bigotries that control the GOP and are the foundation of the Trump presidency. Thus, the identity politics of the left would not prompt anyone to prefer Trump, unless they were already prone toward the white supremacy identity politics and other bigotries that his campaign was based upon and that have controlled the GOP for the last 50 years.
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Speaking of hatred of politicians...
[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/_ZCWNT-zuAs[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/_ZCWNT-zuAs[/YOUTUBE]
braces_for_impact
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I sympathize with Rogan's position. I think he did the right thing there, even though it was personally uncomfortable.
Opoponax
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Yeah. That took huge stones. I could see myself just walking away, but laying into him like that in front of his kids? I don't think I could pull that off. If Paul Ryan's wet dream of a real life Gillead ever come true, Seth better be north of the border.
Underseer
Contributor
Conservatives and libertarians have to sell racism, because that is a big part of the strategy of getting poor whites and middle class whites to go along with letting rich whites pick their pockets. It turns out most people don't notice the boot on their necks if you give them someone to look down on.
To make matters worse, fascists* are constantly looking for new "common enemies" as part of their strategy of making the population more manageable:
Like the Nazis, the modern Republicans have an endless "enemies list" of various minorities or foreigners with which to stoke the fires of hate and keep the population good and distracted.
* I recognize that many Republicans defend Nazis, but might not be actual Nazis themselves, and I apologize for not making the distinction more clearly in order to protect your feelings. Of course it's possible that you are a Nazi-defender but not an actual Nazi, and that is a very important distinction. I'm so sorry about your feelings.
To make matters worse, fascists* are constantly looking for new "common enemies" as part of their strategy of making the population more manageable:
Like the Nazis, the modern Republicans have an endless "enemies list" of various minorities or foreigners with which to stoke the fires of hate and keep the population good and distracted.
* I recognize that many Republicans defend Nazis, but might not be actual Nazis themselves, and I apologize for not making the distinction more clearly in order to protect your feelings. Of course it's possible that you are a Nazi-defender but not an actual Nazi, and that is a very important distinction. I'm so sorry about your feelings.
Yeah, exactly. For the last few years, this has been coming to mind when I see the mentality of right wing authoritarianism.
The skull face guy is overkill. He's the obvious evil, blatant and recognizable by anyone. But he doesn't exist without these guys:
Derec
Contributor
Bullshit. The identity politics on the Left is huge. For example, Democratic Party has supported racial preferences (aka so-called "affirmative action") for decades. That policy means giving people preferential access to college education and employment based on their race, and disadvantaging others again based on their race.
Yes, there are parts of the Republican Party that are racist. That does not exclude Democratic Party racism though. Neither does it mean that things like controlling the border are "racist" just because vast majority of illegals that come through the southern border illegally (as opposed to say overstay a legal visa) are Latin Americans. That is just a fact of geography. We should not just wave the illegals through to not appear "racist" and "xenophobic" in the eyes of the radical Left that supports open borders.
Jason Harvestdancer
Contributor
Libertarians don't sell racism.
Derec
Contributor
I think every anti-establishment seeks to become new establishment. Anti-establishment hippies became the baby boomer establishment 20-30 years later.
Trump's favorable views of at least the trappings of dictatorship is disturbing though. I will agree with you on that.
Derec
Contributor
These strikes are hardly perfect but saying that thousands of civilians died due to drone strikes is an exaggeration. Also, if you are are so idealistic as to say that no collateral damage is acceptable, then you can't wage any war. Churchill would have to capitulate to Germany to avoid killing German civilians and same goes for Roosevelt and Truman with Japan.
The problem for this type of thinking is that voting third party is a waste of a vote. If you have a realistic choice between Obama and Romney or Hillary and Trump and you vote a hopeless third party candidate, you help the candidate you agree with less get elected. In politics, we must always choose the lesser of the two evils. The only two exceptions to this are firsly, if your position is between and roughly equidistant from both candidates. Then they are both equally evil (in different areas) and you may throw away your vote in good conscience. But you are to the left of Hillary or Obama, so they are closer to your position than the alternatives. Another exception is if you live in a state where the winner is a foregone conclusion of course, due to our peculiar electoral system.
James Brown
Suspended by Member Request
I wonder about this. How do we quantify "Hatred for" in order to make this sort of comparison?
Per Wiki, the "Highest Disapproval" figures for the Presidents you named is as follows:
[TABLE="class: grid, width: 350, align: left"]
[TR]
[TD]President[/TD]
[TD]Highest Disapproval[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Clinton[/TD]
[TD]54%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Bush 43[/TD]
[TD]71%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Obama[/TD]
[TD]57%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Trump (12/1/17)[/TD]
[TD]62%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
This doesn't show the linear progression that you suggested. Do you have a different metric in mind?
Of course, "Disapproval of" doesn't necessarily mean "Hatred of". On the other hand, hatred is not fungible. A citizen can hate one President for his political stance and then hate another President because of his race.
laughing dog
Contributor
Your analysis is focused on the small picture. Voting third party is not necessarily a wasted vote if one considers the larger picture. 3rd party voting sends a direct signal to the party of the losing candidate and to alert candidates in the future.
RVonse
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Its really not that complicated
Obama got elected because of perceived hope and change with nothing close to that offered by McCain. And there was a lot of hope with Obama at first. And even a small amount of change at first when he actually saved the auto industry and began cash for clunkers program. Those were deeds meant entirely for the middle class an no one else. But towards the Obama end, and as poster "Arkirk" correctly points out, Obama abandoned the middle class for the bankers and military complex. He fully endorsed TPP during his final days of leadership.
Trump got elected because he seemed genuine, made guarantees to the middle class about jobs and trade, but most importantly promised not to follow the deep state lockstep. In my lifetime, Trump will be the only candidate (other than Ross Perot) who could credibly distance himself with regards corruptible influences of the deep pockets of corporatism. And so far Trump appears to be doing what he said he would do. Which is why you see the economy and in general things doing so well right now. I would say Trump is following his game plan better than Obama. Especially during the final Obama years of his presidency. Will Trump end up a great president....he might, and we will see. But what did not happen is this. Trump did not get elected on his platform of racism or relations with women, nor his relationship with Russia. That is for sure.
So all the other wasted talk about sexism, Hilary, racism, Russia, and identity politics....is just a total distraction. The democrats do not want to hear this... but the Trump voters made a very rational choice. And many of those Trump voters were just like myself. Trump voters who also voted for Obama as well.
Obama got elected because of perceived hope and change with nothing close to that offered by McCain. And there was a lot of hope with Obama at first. And even a small amount of change at first when he actually saved the auto industry and began cash for clunkers program. Those were deeds meant entirely for the middle class an no one else. But towards the Obama end, and as poster "Arkirk" correctly points out, Obama abandoned the middle class for the bankers and military complex. He fully endorsed TPP during his final days of leadership.
Trump got elected because he seemed genuine, made guarantees to the middle class about jobs and trade, but most importantly promised not to follow the deep state lockstep. In my lifetime, Trump will be the only candidate (other than Ross Perot) who could credibly distance himself with regards corruptible influences of the deep pockets of corporatism. And so far Trump appears to be doing what he said he would do. Which is why you see the economy and in general things doing so well right now. I would say Trump is following his game plan better than Obama. Especially during the final Obama years of his presidency. Will Trump end up a great president....he might, and we will see. But what did not happen is this. Trump did not get elected on his platform of racism or relations with women, nor his relationship with Russia. That is for sure.
So all the other wasted talk about sexism, Hilary, racism, Russia, and identity politics....is just a total distraction. The democrats do not want to hear this... but the Trump voters made a very rational choice. And many of those Trump voters were just like myself. Trump voters who also voted for Obama as well.
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The only real example I can come up with here was...2011, when the GOP took over the House, and proceeded to scream for tax cuts for the business class, for banks to do exactly what crashed the economy a few years before, and to block millions of Americans from health care access.
So voting for a white supremacist who is widely known for his total lack of business sense, and for backing away from any and all agreements was a better choice than the woman who is known for her health care work, who typically keeps her promises, and who put forward detailed plans for job training and creation, consumer protections, repairing police-community relations, and so forth?
Well, if you assume that Dolt 45's followers are also profoundly bigoted, then sure. If you really hate abortion, LGBT people, or nonwhite people, then sure, Dolt 45 promised to use state power against all of that. And if you're incredibly rich and wanted to cut your taxes regardless of who else suffers, then that 's exactly what the rest of the GOP wanted to do, so yes, that's also rational. People who voted for Obama and then Trump were very clearly not rational at all, nor were people who wanted their jobs to be safer or pay more, who dislike having a house literally underwater, and who think Iran probably shouldn't develop a nuclear weapon anytime soon and that the US shouldn't simply run wild tearing up every international agreement and generally pissing it's pants in public.
There was nothing Dolt 45, and McConnell, have done so far that any somewhat thoughtful person couldn't see a mile away. "I never thought he'd separate children from their parents..." Are these people at all aware of how racism works in the US? That's exactly what bigots do every time they can, and Dolt 45 made bigotry the central part of his campaign. "Who would think he wouldn't read?" His own ghostwriters and debate prep team said so at length.
RVonse
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From purely economic perspectives voting for both Obama and Trump was not only highly rational for myself but highly beneficial in hind sight as well.
In the case of Obama, he saved Chrysler Corporation which McCain would have never done. My local plant was still shut down and my job gone, but the company survived and I kept my pension and medical benefits. I owe the debt of gratitude to Obama for that.
In the case of Trump, I was immediately called back to US Steel to a plant that would have certainly been closed under Clinton. The only problem at my plant today is that they cant find enough workers to hire back to it again. And we are all working mandatory overtime, although I consider that to be a good problem to have. Property values where I live are also starting to rise quickly. It is as though the whole metro area has become alive again.
Im an electrician living in the rust belt near st louis, the heart of fly over country. I belong to both the UAW and USW unions and consider myself extremely lucky both Obama and Trump got elected.
laughing dog
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What makes you think that?