Officers Who Shot 12-Year-Old Holding Toy Gun Refused To Give Him First Aid

[ksen]

It may be just me, but your advice sound suspiciously similar to what one is supposed to do if, on a nature hike, you see a predatory animal crossing your path.

And don't forget that the talk about being a police officer as being particularly dangerous is not true.

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-country-tanks/

http://fee.org/blog/detail/by-the-numbers-how-dangerous-is-it-to-be-a-cop

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It's at least evidence that the cop was poorly trained and certainly unqualified. This video is just as disturbing as the other where the cops are so quick to use deadly force. If this is the best the cops have to offer than more people need to carry guns just to protect themselves from the cops.

How is it evidence of poor training?

Is it legal to walk around in public with a knife in your hand?? I wouldn't think so--thus the cop is right to challenge him.

Remind me why people seem to think you're somehow libertarian.

 

[ksen]

How is it evidence of poor training?

Is it legal to walk around in public with a knife in your hand?? I wouldn't think so--thus the cop is right to challenge him.

Remind me why people seem to think you're somehow libertarian.

inorite?

I'm no friend to libertarianism but even I can see that loren's claim to being a libertarian is false.

 

[RavenSky]

Speaking of... why isn't Loren defending "open carry"?

Because the 12 year old, in the second and a half that the police observed him before killing him, was not properly handling his toy gun. If he had only properly handled it for that second and a half he'd still be alive.

Basically, if you're handling a toy gun and a police car rolls up to within a couple of feet of you and a police officer jumps out of the car with his gun drawn and yells "put down the gun!" three times in less than a second you had better not reach for the gun he wants you to put down or he'll shoot you dead before his partner has even exited the vehicle.

In other news, don't reach for your cane or the ID the policeman asked you for and don't cut one off in traffic, especially on his day off.

But carrying your loaded rifle into a restaurant for the express purpose of intimidating a gun-control group... that's perfectly fine

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looks like you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play. Talk about a nanny state

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Remind me why people seem to think you're somehow libertarian.

inorite?

I'm no friend to libertarianism but even I can see that loren's claim to being a libertarian is false.

Laughing dog "believes" the claim ... when it is convenient to do so. Like when conservative Republican Poe Underseer tries to claim libertarians side with the police.

- - - Updated - - -

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

So you want a law against it?

 

[laughing dog]

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

Fine. Until then you wave that magic wand to get that wish, I think it is more reasonable to not want police to execute children within 2 seconds of arriving at the scene when the police are not in danger.

 

[Toni]

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

Here's what I want:

I want law enforcement to not let police officers murder unarmed children.

I want law enforcement to invest the time and effort in selecting, screening and training their police force in learning to evaluate and diffuse situations and to utilize nonviolent techniques instead of arming them with a military arsenal.

 

[RavenSky]

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

So you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play.

The fact is, children play "cops and robbers" and "war games" and hunting games and other reenactment of adult violence, And for as long as people have made toys, there have been realistic replicas of weapons made as toys for those children. Haven't you ever seen "A Christmas Story"? So whether you or I are enthralled with the idea of children playing with toy guns, it is a fact of life.

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

 

[bleubird]

http://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Outdoor...&qid=1417524493&sr=8-51&keywords=old+toy+guns
What changed?Kids had these when I grew up.There was no big problem.May it be the 911 terror thing?
To the OP,criminal behavior by the police.It was Cleveland,which does not have a good police record.

 

[ksen]

does any place really have a good police record?

 

[Playball40]

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

So you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play.

The fact is, children play "cops and robbers" and "war games" and hunting guns and other reenactment of adult violence, And for as long as people have made toys, there have been realistic replicas of weapons made as toys for those children. Haven't you ever seen "A Christmas Story"? So whether you or I are enthralled with the idea of children playing with toy guns, it is a fact of life.

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

I don't see the point in toy manufacturers making toy guns look so real though. Yikes.

 

[dx713]

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

So you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play.

The fact is, children play "cops and robbers" and "war games" and hunting guns and other reenactment of adult violence, And for as long as people have made toys, there have been realistic replicas of weapons made as toys for those children. Haven't you ever seen "A Christmas Story"? So whether you or I are enthralled with the idea of children playing with toy guns, it is a fact of life.

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

4. Tight gun control so that police don't have to have "real gun threat" as their first hypothesis when responding.
(Unless you were listing realistic hypothesis in the US, in that case, nevermind, go with 1)

 

[AthenaAwakened]

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

And how do they do that Loren?

The guns are made and sold readily across the counter. If you don't buy them for your kid, you can't stop everyone he knows form buying them. You can't stop him from borrowing one from a friend or trading a rookie card for one.

How do parents keep their children perfect for you, Loren?

Parents all around the world are waiting for your perfect answer. Please give it to us.

 

[ksen]

Athena, the answer is make better decisions. People who make good decisions don't get their kids killed by cops.

(I feel dirty now)

 

[RavenSky]

So you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play.

The fact is, children play "cops and robbers" and "war games" and hunting guns and other reenactment of adult violence, And for as long as people have made toys, there have been realistic replicas of weapons made as toys for those children. Haven't you ever seen "A Christmas Story"? So whether you or I are enthralled with the idea of children playing with toy guns, it is a fact of life.

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

I don't see the point in toy manufacturers making toy guns look so real though. Yikes.

I actually agree with you, but it would take legislation to forbid manufacturers from making them. I don't have a problem with such legislation, nor would you I suspect. But I'd like to know if that is what Loren is advocating for though.

Or does he prefer to allow the manufacture of realistic-looking toys but then legislate that parents are not allowed to let their children play with them.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

When I was a kid we made our own toy guns out of wood. We'd compare them like we did bikes of knives. I guess we all deserved to be shot.

The other problem and perhaps the bigger problem is that these cops are so unfamiliar with the people they're supposed to protect and serve, which makes killing them a lot easier, even if unintentionally. It's a training and culture problem at its heart and it gets people killed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No. When you're a cop you should remember that kids love to play gun and don't escalate a situation stupidly to make no room for this well known feature of kids,. Cop did not have to pull up next to kid, did not have to shoot before assessing the situation, did not have to ignore the caller's statement that it was probably a toy. I find blaming the 12 child and absolving a trained "protection" officer of the need to exercise judgement to be sad and kind of grotesque. 12yo should make a better assessment than a cop. That makes no sense. Do you hear yourselves?

12 is also old enough to be a gangbanger. The cop can't assume he's just playing.

Was he banging on gangs when the cops arrived?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

12 is also old enough to be a gangbanger. The cop can't assume he's just playing.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Athena, the answer is make better decisions. People who make good decisions don't get their kids killed by cops.

(I feel dirty now)

Cops who make good decisions don't kill kids. /pedantic