Officers Who Shot 12-Year-Old Holding Toy Gun Refused To Give Him First Aid

[RavenSky]

Tamir Rice was buried today.

 

[laughing dog]

Because I'm not at all sure this is something that can be handled by training.

You can't simply say "don't shoot 12 year olds" because sometimes that 12 year old really does mean to shoot the cop.

What is wrong with you? Wanting police to wait more than 2 seconds for a child to react when that child is not pointing his replica fire arm at someone is not saying "don't shoot 12 year olds".

 

[bleubird]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...fatally-shot-tamir-rice-had-been-judged-unfit
Serve and protect.
Try a bit harder,please.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/national/officer-fatal-shooting-12-year-old-described-distr/njLCk/

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Tamir Rice's Funeral

 

[bleubird]

I wonder how the police in Liberatopia would handle this?

 

[ksen]

Depends on how much you offered to pay them.

 

[Toni]

Wh

Why aren't you calling for more and better training for police? Frankly, there is a serious problem in the U.S. with unarmed people being shot by police officers, often for no reason other than poor training/panic on the part of the heavily armed police officers.

How are law enforcement armed and trained in other countries?

Because I'm not at all sure this is something that can be handled by training.

You can't simply say "don't shoot 12 year olds" because sometimes that 12 year old really does mean to shoot the cop.

I believe that outside a controlled situation people should handle realistic replica weapons as if they were real.

The basic difference I see in our approaches is that you want to address every issue by means of the state, not by means of personal responsibility. I want the order the other way around--the default approach is personal responsibility, the state steps in in the cases where this is not enough.

So, just out of curiosity, how young is too young to shoot at?


I agree that some things cannot be fixed by training. Learning to handle weapons properly and learning non-lethal means of assessing and resolving a situation are not among those things which cannot be learned through training. And common sense. And observation. And interaction with other human beings.

And empathy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Another thing that could be handled by training is having the 911 operator convey all the information to the responding officers and not withholding something vital like . . . oh, that the caller said it's probably a toy gun.

Unreliable evidence like this isn't likely to be reported to the officer.

 

[Arctish]

Another thing that could be handled by training is having the 911 operator convey all the information to the responding officers and not withholding something vital like . . . oh, that the caller said it's probably a toy gun.

Unreliable evidence like this isn't likely to be reported to the officer.

What makes the part of the report about Rice pointing a gun at people reliable, but the part that he was "probably a juvenile" and that the gun was "probably fake" unreliable? How does a police dispatcher tell the difference between the reliable and unreliable parts of a 911 call and determine which parts to pass along to the responding officers?

"The guy keeps pulling it out," the 911 caller continues. "It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring the (expletive) out of (inaudible). ... He's sitting on the swing right now, but he keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people. Probably a juvenile, you know? … I don't know if it's real or not, you know?"

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/24/listen--911-caller-reports-tamir-rice-incident/19479083/

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Unreliable evidence like this isn't likely to be reported to the officer.

"The guy keeps pulling it out," the 911 caller continues. "It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring the (expletive) out of (inaudible). ... He's sitting on the swing right now, but he keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people. Probably a juvenile, you know? … I don't know if it's real or not, you know?"

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/24/listen--911-caller-reports-tamir-rice-incident/19479083/

What makes the part of the report about Rice pointing a gun at people reliable, but the part that he was "probably a juvenile" and that the gun was "probably fake" unreliable? How does a police dispatcher tell the difference between the reliable and unreliable parts of a 911 call and determine which parts to pass along to the responding officers?

We have one fact: Pulling the gun out and pointing it at people.

We have reasonable guess: Juvenile. (One can generally tell a 12 year old from an adult.)

We have one wild ass guess: Fake. The caller provided no indication as to an observation that said it was fake, he was simply going on juvenile + behavior. The dispatcher was right to not pass that along.


It sounds like a case of a kid having fun scaring people with a gun. He tried it on a cop.

 

[Arctish]

"The guy keeps pulling it out," the 911 caller continues. "It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring the (expletive) out of (inaudible). ... He's sitting on the swing right now, but he keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people. Probably a juvenile, you know? … I don't know if it's real or not, you know?"

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/24/listen--911-caller-reports-tamir-rice-incident/19479083/

What makes the part of the report about Rice pointing a gun at people reliable, but the part that he was "probably a juvenile" and that the gun was "probably fake" unreliable? How does a police dispatcher tell the difference between the reliable and unreliable parts of a 911 call and determine which parts to pass along to the responding officers?

We have one fact: Pulling the gun out and pointing it at people.

We have reasonable guess: Juvenile. (One can generally tell a 12 year old from an adult.)

We have one wild ass guess: Fake. The caller provided no indication as to an observation that said it was fake, he was simply going on juvenile + behavior. The dispatcher was right to not pass that along.

So you're saying the dispatcher, without any direct knowledge of the situation and knowing nothing of the reliability of the caller, makes snap judgments about the information being given and passes on only the parts he or she thinks are accurate? How does a dispatcher make that determination? Is there a guidebook or a formula they use?

It sounds like a case of a kid having fun scaring people with a gun.

Yes, it does. So why didn't the dispatcher tell that to the cops, when the caller clearly said he thought that might be the case?

He tried it on a cop.

So you didn't watch the video. You aren't commenting on what actually happened, you're just sayin'.

 

[laughing dog]

We have one fact: Pulling the gun out and pointing it at people.

Wrong. We have a report of him doing that. BTW, when Rice was shot, his replica gun was in his waistband: he was not pointing the gun at anyone.

 

[marc]

We have one fact: Pulling the gun out and pointing it at people.

Wrong. We have a report of him doing that. BTW, when Rice was shot, his replica gun was in his waistband: he was not pointing the gun at anyone.

Just like the 'fact' of the guy in the Walmart pointing the pellet gun at people, even though the video shows no such thing.

 

[RavenSky]

"The guy keeps pulling it out," the 911 caller continues. "It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring the (expletive) out of (inaudible). ... He's sitting on the swing right now, but he keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people. Probably a juvenile, you know? … I don't know if it's real or not, you know?"

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/24/listen--911-caller-reports-tamir-rice-incident/19479083/

What makes the part of the report about Rice pointing a gun at people reliable, but the part that he was "probably a juvenile" and that the gun was "probably fake" unreliable? How does a police dispatcher tell the difference between the reliable and unreliable parts of a 911 call and determine which parts to pass along to the responding officers?

We have one fact: Pulling the gun out and pointing it at people.

We have reasonable guess: Juvenile. (One can generally tell a 12 year old from an adult.)

We have one wild ass guess: Fake. The caller provided no indication as to an observation that said it was fake, he was simply going on juvenile + behavior. The dispatcher was right to not pass that along.


It sounds like a case of a kid having fun scaring people with a gun. He tried it on a cop.

We have one fact: Pulling the gun out and pointing it at people. <<<------------------ not a fact because it wasn't a gun

We have reasonable guess: Juvenile. (One can generally tell a 12 year old from an adult.)

We have one wild ass guess: Fake. The caller provided no indication as to an observation that said it was fake, he was simply going on juvenile + behavior. <<<------------------------- in other words, the caller displayed better threat assessment skills than the cops who caused the death of an innocent child

The dispatcher was right to not pass that along. <<<------------ the dispatcher was absolute WRONG not to pass along EVERY bit of information s/he received that might have helped the police properly assess the level of threat. The dispatcher is as much at fault for the death of the child as the two police officers. All three should - at minimum - lose their jobs.

It sounds like a case of a kid having fun scaring people with a gun. He tried it on a cop. <<<<-------------------------------- bullshit and false. Watch the video. The child only pointed the toy at one person walking along, and given that he also walked beside the person for several yards, and the person showed no signs of distressed, I suspect the child knew the person. Further, the child did NOT point his toy at the cops. That is a complete fabrication that the video evidence refutes.

Good grief, Loren... you really really really ALWAYS blame the victim, don't you. I hope, for your sake, you are never a victim because the aftermath dissonance will make your head explode. Either that or you will have a "come to jesus" moment and become the biggest victim's advocate ever... sort of like Orrin Hatch breaks with his ultra-conservative record to support stem-cell research because that affects his family.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

"The guy keeps pulling it out," the 911 caller continues. "It's probably fake, but you know what, he's scaring the (expletive) out of (inaudible). ... He's sitting on the swing right now, but he keeps pulling it in and out of his pants and pointing it at people. Probably a juvenile, you know? … I don't know if it's real or not, you know?"

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/24/listen--911-caller-reports-tamir-rice-incident/19479083/

What makes the part of the report about Rice pointing a gun at people reliable, but the part that he was "probably a juvenile" and that the gun was "probably fake" unreliable? How does a police dispatcher tell the difference between the reliable and unreliable parts of a 911 call and determine which parts to pass along to the responding officers?

We have one fact: Pulling the gun out and pointing it at people.

A toy gun. Even the person who called it in said it was probably a toy gun.

We have reasonable guess: Juvenile. (One can generally tell a 12 year old from an adult.)

Black Boys Viewed as Older, Less Innocent Than Whites, Research Finds

We have one wild ass guess: Fake. The caller provided no indication as to an observation that said it was fake, he was simply going on juvenile + behavior. The dispatcher was right to not pass that along.


It sounds like a case of a kid having fun scaring people with a gun. He tried it on a cop.

Which WE HAVE A VIDEO THAT PROVES HE DID NOT.

Loren, it''s time you get honest with yourself.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

It is beyond fucked up to think it is capital offense to fail to immediately obey a police officer.

It is fucked up to think that to disobey orders while holding a gun with cops ISN'T risking getting shot.

Why? The Right to Bear Arms is gauranteed in America's bill of rights. You should no more expect to be shot for possession of a firearm than you should for possession of a Quran.

 

[bleubird]

Is there an age thing in the Second Amendment?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Is there an age thing in the Second Amendment?

Is there?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed for those of legal voting age.

Seems legit.

IMO, this is almost a mirror of the Levar Jones shooting in South Carolina. Nervous cop rolls up on a black person, thinks black person is armed, shoots first and asks questions later. If it wasn't for the security camera video, the media would be calling Rice a gang banger who pointed a gun at cops and the kid would be just another statistic.

 

[ksen]

Is there an age thing in the Second Amendment?

Well, it says something about people and black youths aren't really people so ...

 

[ksen]

UPDATE:

Extended Tamir Rice shooting video shows officers restrained sister

Cleveland police officers forced Tamir Rice's 14-year-old sister to the ground, handcuffed her and placed in the back of a Cleveland police car steps away from her wounded 12-year-old brother.

. . .

As the girl neared her brother, Loehmann's partner, Frank Garmback confronted her and forced her to the ground. Loehmann rushed over, and the two knelt beside her as she rolled on the ground. Eventually the officers handcuffed the girl and placed her in the back of the police cruiser, less than 10 feet from her dying brother.

Officers then stood around Tamir as he lay wounded. One officer had his hands on his hips when a man, identified by police as an FBI agent who was in the neighborhood, entered the frame and administered first aid. It was the first medical care the boy received in the four minutes that followed the shooting.

Paramedics did not arrive until about eight minutes after the shooting. Much of what happened to Tamir after the shooting is blocked by Garmback and Loehmann's squad car. The paramedics can be seen working as officers stand around the boy.

disgusting