Officers Who Shot 12-Year-Old Holding Toy Gun Refused To Give Him First Aid

[Toni]

What exactly do you mean by 'properly?' You realize you are talking about a toy and not about an actual weapon, right?

There is NO WAY ON EARTH to spin this to make it the kid's fault or his parents' fault. The blame lays squarely with the officers involved and that of the police department for not properly training or screening personnel.

Out in public you should handle replica weapons like you would handle real weapons. Including considering yourself armed if challenged by a cop.

If you are an officer of the law, you should be trained and have the mental and emotional stability to not shoot a 12 year old on sight, which is exactly what these cops did.

I would think differently if there had been shots fired or reports of shots fired but the report was of a probable CHILD with a probable TOY.

 

[laughing dog]

What exactly do you mean by 'properly?' You realize you are talking about a toy and not about an actual weapon, right?

There is NO WAY ON EARTH to spin this to make it the kid's fault or his parents' fault. The blame lays squarely with the officers involved and that of the police department for not properly training or screening personnel.

Out in public you should handle replica weapons like you would handle real weapons. Including considering yourself armed if challenged by a cop.

I strongly suspect you have no experience dealing with children because your expectations are unrealistic.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Out in public you should handle replica weapons like you would handle real weapons. Including considering yourself armed if challenged by a cop.

I strongly suspect you have no experience dealing with children because your expectations are unrealistic.

Loren

HE WAS TWELVE!!!!!

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I strongly suspect you have no experience dealing with children because your expectations are unrealistic.

Loren

HE WAS TWELVE!!!!!

And apparently so was the cop, mentally and emotionally.

 

[ksen]

I strongly suspect you have no experience dealing with children because your expectations are unrealistic.

Loren

HE WAS TWELVE!!!!!

Thank god the law got him before he grew up and caused some real damage.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Out in public you should handle replica weapons like you would handle real weapons. Including considering yourself armed if challenged by a cop.

No. When you're a cop you should remember that kids love to play gun and don't escalate a situation stupidly to make no room for this well known feature of kids,. Cop did not have to pull up next to kid, did not have to shoot before assessing the situation, did not have to ignore the caller's statement that it was probably a toy. I find blaming the 12 child and absolving a trained "protection" officer of the need to exercise judgement to be sad and kind of grotesque. 12yo should make a better assessment than a cop. That makes no sense. Do you hear yourselves?

12 is also old enough to be a gangbanger. The cop can't assume he's just playing.

The answer is simple: Don't play with realistic replicas other than in a controlled situation.

 

[Frikki]

No. When you're a cop you should remember that kids love to play gun and don't escalate a situation stupidly to make no room for this well known feature of kids,. Cop did not have to pull up next to kid, did not have to shoot before assessing the situation, did not have to ignore the caller's statement that it was probably a toy. I find blaming the 12 child and absolving a trained "protection" officer of the need to exercise judgement to be sad and kind of grotesque. 12yo should make a better assessment than a cop. That makes no sense. Do you hear yourselves?

12 is also old enough to be a gangbanger. The cop can't assume he's just playing.

The answer is simple: Don't play with realistic replicas other than in a controlled situation.

Edited

 

[laughing dog]

No. When you're a cop you should remember that kids love to play gun and don't escalate a situation stupidly to make no room for this well known feature of kids,. Cop did not have to pull up next to kid, did not have to shoot before assessing the situation, did not have to ignore the caller's statement that it was probably a toy. I find blaming the 12 child and absolving a trained "protection" officer of the need to exercise judgement to be sad and kind of grotesque. 12yo should make a better assessment than a cop. That makes no sense. Do you hear yourselves?

12 is also old enough to be a gangbanger. The cop can't assume he's just playing.

Once again, you miss the point. The police shouldn't assume anything - they should assess the potential threat. Until you can show this 12 year old was actually putting anyone in perceived danger, your response are closer to apologia for the murder of a 12 year old black boy than defense of reasonable police action.

T

 

[ksen]

No. When you're a cop you should remember that kids love to play gun and don't escalate a situation stupidly to make no room for this well known feature of kids,. Cop did not have to pull up next to kid, did not have to shoot before assessing the situation, did not have to ignore the caller's statement that it was probably a toy. I find blaming the 12 child and absolving a trained "protection" officer of the need to exercise judgement to be sad and kind of grotesque. 12yo should make a better assessment than a cop. That makes no sense. Do you hear yourselves?

12 is also old enough to be a gangbanger. The cop can't assume he's just playing.

The answer is simple: Don't play with realistic replicas other than in a controlled situation.

I have an even simpler answer: take more than 2 seconds to assess a situation before opening fire.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

So, Loren, your police force always shoots first. People will buy guns to protect themselves from this behavior. What then? By your standard I have the right to open fire on a police officer if he doesn't obey my commands when I tell him to drop his weapon. Your utopian police state sure is a strange place.

Police officers are supposed to be trained to deal with these situations like trained police officers. Any hack with a gun can do what your police force can do.

 

[RavenSky]

I did not allow war toys in my home when my child was small. When he was allowed to play with water guns, they were the "super soaker" type, so that they would be seen as nothing but a water gun. We had real guns in the home (locked and out of view), and I asked my kid did he want to learn how to shoot. He never said yes. Not a gun guy my kid,

However, you can't make it right that a twelve year old kid was killed by a policeman in less than two seconds of their meeting. That is not the kid's fault. No how. No way. We are not talking Hitler Youth manning a howitzer in 1945 Berlin. We are talking a thoughtless kid and a supposedly trained professional who is called to protect and serve and keep the peace. He is supposed to be able to take control of such a situation without killing the child.

Kids do stupid things. Kids do things without thinking. That is part of being a kid. And being a kid is not a capital offense in any state.

Reality isn't always fair.

If the kid can't properly handle a real-looking weapon then the parents shouldn't allow him access to one.

Are you seriously blaming a 12 year old boy because the adult police officer couldn't handle the situation properly? Seriously?

 

[RavenSky]

I thought this article was pertinent.

Police can Better Calm Situations

In a July report on the Newark, New Jersey, department, the DOJ faulted a "pattern and practice of taking immediate offensive action" rather than acting within the bounds of the Constitution and displaying the "thick skin and patience" needed for the job.

I've always maintained that cops need to have the thickest skin of all. They need to be trained to NOT act aggressively.

^^^^ yes! Police need to be held to a much higher standard than the average citizen. Instead we have children being held to higher standards than the cops who kill them.

- - - Updated - - -

Out in public you should handle replica weapons like you would handle real weapons. Including considering yourself armed if challenged by a cop.

The answer is simple: Don't play with realistic replicas other than in a controlled situation.

Looks like you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play. Talk about a nanny state

 

[Shadowy Man]

Looks like you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play. Talk about a nanny state

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Looks like you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play. Talk about a nanny state

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

The solution is simple. If your kids want to play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians you just get all your hunting buddies to sit outside with their guns loaded and cocked so there's a nice firefight when the rollers show up. Makes perfect sense. As soon as the car pulls up just open fire.

 

[RavenSky]

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

The solution is simple. If your kids want to play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians you just get all your hunting buddies to sit outside with their guns loaded and cocked so there's a nice firefight when the rollers show up. Makes perfect sense.

Speaking of... why isn't Loren defending "open carry"?

 

[ksen]

The solution is simple. If your kids want to play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians you just get all your hunting buddies to sit outside with their guns loaded and cocked so there's a nice firefight when the rollers show up. Makes perfect sense.

Speaking of... why isn't Loren defending "open carry"?

because blacks

 

[Shadowy Man]

The solution is simple. If your kids want to play cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians you just get all your hunting buddies to sit outside with their guns loaded and cocked so there's a nice firefight when the rollers show up. Makes perfect sense.

Speaking of... why isn't Loren defending "open carry"?

Because the 12 year old, in the second and a half that the police observed him before killing him, was not properly handling his toy gun. If he had only properly handled it for that second and a half he'd still be alive.

Basically, if you're handling a toy gun and a police car rolls up to within a couple of feet of you and a police officer jumps out of the car with his gun drawn and yells "put down the gun!" three times in less than a second you had better not reach for the gun he wants you to put down or he'll shoot you dead before his partner has even exited the vehicle.

In other news, don't reach for your cane or the ID the policeman asked you for and don't cut one off in traffic, especially on his day off.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If you think that people should be punished for killing black children, then you hate our freedom and want to make us all less free. That's why America needs patriotic conservolibertarian Real Americans^TM who are ready to defend our freedom from people like you.

What level of education is necessary to convince oneself that libertarians side with police in cases such as this?

 

[laughing dog]

If you think that people should be punished for killing black children, then you hate our freedom and want to make us all less free. That's why America needs patriotic conservolibertarian Real Americans^TM who are ready to defend our freedom from people like you.

What level of education is necessary to convince oneself that libertarians side with police in cases such as this?

Loren Pechtel self-describes himself as a moderate libertarian. So, maybe you should ask him.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Don't know about you, but my parents taught me to always be polite to cops, always do what they say and move slowly. They have a very dangerous job and I don't blame them for being skittish.

If you think most cops will wait for the other guy to shoot first, like they do in movies, you're very naive.

It may be just me, but your advice sound suspiciously similar to what one is supposed to do if, on a nature hike, you see a predatory animal crossing your path.

- - - Updated - - -

What level of education is necessary to convince oneself that libertarians side with police in cases such as this?

Loren Pechtel self-describes himself as a moderate libertarian. So, maybe you should ask him.

So you are saying that Underseer and Loren have the same level of conservative Republican education?