Is a vaccine mandate a racist policy?

[Loren Pechtel]

Triage only happens when medical capabilities are currently overloaded. (Note that "medical capabilities" is very broad in this context.)

Triage happens all day, every day, in every hospital emergency room on earth.

For fuck's sake the level of mental gymnastics. ARE YOU NOT DIZZY?

I've been in a few ERs. Never has there been a substantial wait despite not needing to go to the front of the line (and I'm not sure why the docs seem to think kidney stones are ER rather than urgent care.) Admittedly, never have I been there on a Friday or Saturday night.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes, I am sure of it. Every ER room needs and has a triage system.

Of course. That doesn't mean it's always in use beyond the simple issue of whether something is so urgent that it's treat before worrying about paperwork--and most of those are coming in by ambulance, not walking through the doors.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

Yeah, you have a single payer system. I'm not surprised.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

Oh, come on now! Right is right. Thus, bad things must be the result of the left. Thus vaccine rejection is from the left. QED.

Pay no attention to the false-flag operations they have engaged in pretending to be from the right. Right people wouldn't have done that, thus it must be a false-flag operation!

 

[Metaphor]

But as I said, it is irrelevant. Toni wants a regime of indefinite house arrest, because her house arrest regime lasts for an unknown or unstated length of time.

Backed into a corner, the wild metaphor retreats to their favored strawman.

It is not a strawman. It's Toni's policy.

Toni has already said that the house arrest she proposed was not indefinite. Your continued characterization of it as such is not only a strawman, but a willful misrepresentation of what she said. None of which is surprising in the least.

Explain to me how Toni's house arrest policy was not indefinite given the definition of indefinite I provided. "Indefinite" does not mean forever, it means for an unstated or unknown length of time.

I don't have to explain anything, both she and another poster have already done so. You really should try to keep up with your own thread.

No. laughing dog provided a second definition of 'indefinite' and claimed Toni's policy wasn't indefinite according to the second definition.

But, even though I regarded it as indefinite according to the second definition as well, that doesn't matter. It fit the first definition.

Precisely why the correct characterisation of Toni's house arrest policy as 'indefinite' is the cause of so much protest, I'm sure I do not know.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

That is 100% pure unadulterated bullshit. You need to stop consuming the conservative media coming out of the US. Vaccine hesitancy in the US has absolutely nothing to do with the left being hateful and condescending, and everything to do with the right spreading misinformation and outright lies, starting with their cult leader Donald Trump, and eventually spiraling out of their control.

Trump has been out of office for ten months. Let go and let God.

The fact that he is out of office has no bearing on the fact that he is more to blame for vaccine hesitancy than any other single person. Also, I am not letting go, because there is a significant chance that the menace will be in office again in 2024.

If Trump returns to office, it will be because the American people are unsatisfied with the government they voted for.

And it will still have absolutely no bearing on the fact that he is more to blame for vaccine hesitancy than any other single person.

 

[Toni]

But as I said, it is irrelevant. Toni wants a regime of indefinite house arrest, because her house arrest regime lasts for an unknown or unstated length of time.

Backed into a corner, the wild metaphor retreats to their favored strawman.

It is not a strawman. It's Toni's policy.

Toni has already said that the house arrest she proposed was not indefinite. Your continued characterization of it as such is not only a strawman, but a willful misrepresentation of what she said. None of which is surprising in the least.

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Definition; Triage: (in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

One is not a large number

ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Translation: You must respect my definitions while I ignore yours.

Well, the definition is wrong in the first place. It isn't about a 'large number' of casualties; it's any number of casualties. If two people present at emergency and there's one doctor, they will be triaged.

You are only proving my point that you demand that your definition be adhered to, while you ignore those provided by others.

To clarify: I don’t believe I wrote the words ‘house arrest.’ Metaphor is fond of mischaracterizing me and what I write and asserting that I hold opinions that I do not.

 

[Metaphor]

But as I said, it is irrelevant. Toni wants a regime of indefinite house arrest, because her house arrest regime lasts for an unknown or unstated length of time.

Backed into a corner, the wild metaphor retreats to their favored strawman.

It is not a strawman. It's Toni's policy.

Toni has already said that the house arrest she proposed was not indefinite. Your continued characterization of it as such is not only a strawman, but a willful misrepresentation of what she said. None of which is surprising in the least.

My words were not imprecise. ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Definition; Triage: (in medical use) the assignment of degrees of urgency to wounds or illnesses to decide the order of treatment of a large number of patients or casualties.

One is not a large number

ERs engage in triage all day every day. It is a fundamental background process, even when there is only a single presenting patient.

Translation: You must respect my definitions while I ignore yours.

Well, the definition is wrong in the first place. It isn't about a 'large number' of casualties; it's any number of casualties. If two people present at emergency and there's one doctor, they will be triaged.

You are only proving my point that you demand that your definition be adhered to, while you ignore those provided by others.

To clarify: I don’t believe I wrote the words ‘house arrest.’ Metaphor is fond of mischaracterizing me and what I write and asserting that I hold opinions that I do not.

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance. We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

 

[ZiprHead]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

 

[Metaphor]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

 

[Metaphor]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

 

[ZiprHead]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Of course

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

You might be surprised. The more that the stupid die or bury their loved ones, the less the remaining 'American people' are going to tolerate rotbloods.

 

[Metaphor]

Of course

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

You might be surprised. The more that the stupid die or bury their loved ones, the less the remaining 'American people' are going to tolerate rotbloods.

I don't know what you think a 'rotblood' is, but you appear to attribute genuine malice to people who do not want to be vaccinated.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Of course

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

You might be surprised. The more that the stupid die or bury their loved ones, the less the remaining 'American people' are going to tolerate rotbloods.

I don't know what you think a 'rotblood' is, but you appear to attribute genuine malice to people who do not want to be vaccinated.

You don't understand what i am saying, and then tell me what i am saying....

 

[Metaphor]

You would see that patient, as they are the highest priority.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of this point scoring? If Toni believes that ERs don't routinely have more than one patient, I don't know what to tell her. She has lived in a cossetted and privileged world if she thinks that.

how many patients does an ER normally have??

In my jurisdiction, more than half of ER patients are not seen within four hours. Admittedly, it's the worst jurisdiction in Australia for ER wait times.

Canberra ED wait times are the worst in the country, but the Health Minister wants to fix it by October

It took five hours for Kathryn Harradine's six-month-old son Andy to be treated for a lung infection at Canberra Hospital's emergency department. Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith expects such a wait will be shorter in nine months' time.

www.abc.net.au

if one anecdote supports your narrative....

Data is not an anecdote.

yeah so aggregate the data available about getting vaccines versus no getting vaccines and let US know how you are doing, please. and "US" is every interested party before we all die.

Today, over 90% of the people in my jurisdiction have been double vaxxed, and we didn't have any vaccine mandates to get there.

It's a shame the left has been so vindictive and hateful and condescending in America that they've hardened the hearts of so many Americans against vaccination. But I'm sure indefinite house arrest will soften their hearts and minds. Good luck.

It's a shame that you seem to have such a total and complete misunderstanding of US politics that you blame the present vaccine resistence on the left.

I said the left's rhetoric and actions are not helping achieve their desired ends.

We tried being nice. They told us to "Fuck your feelings."

I have not seen the left be 'nice' to the unvaxxed. Of all the adjectives I would use, that would not figure in my top 100, unless it was part of a sentence that qualified the niceness as a veneer or a patina.

Did you look?

Did I look? Do you mean, did I read dozens of articles from left-wing media, and from left-wing pundits on Twitter, demonising and infantilising and wishing pain and harm on the unvaxxed? Yes, I looked and I saw.

 

[Metaphor]

Of course

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

You might be surprised. The more that the stupid die or bury their loved ones, the less the remaining 'American people' are going to tolerate rotbloods.

I don't know what you think a 'rotblood' is, but you appear to attribute genuine malice to people who do not want to be vaccinated.

You don't understand what i am saying, and then tell me what i am saying....

No. I don't understand what a 'rotblood' is. It is a term I've never heard before you used it. What is it?

 

[Keith&Co.]

No. I don't understand what a 'rotblood' is. It is a term I've never heard before you used it. What is it?

Yeah, no. .
As to the other, i really do perceive malice from people who ram vaccination clinics with their cars. Or make death threats at school board meetings. Or dox school board members who support mask mandates. Or write how armed assault is the only option to prevent Fauci's New World Order.

Subtle, i know, but if you read between the lines, there's a teensy bit of malice.

 

[Metaphor]

No. I don't understand what a 'rotblood' is. It is a term I've never heard before you used it. What is it?

Yeah, no. .

Yeah, no, what?

As to the other, i really do perceive malice from people who ram vaccination clinics with their cars.

Do you believe that the 40% unvaxxed in the US ram vaccination clinics with their cars?

Or make death threats at school board meetings. Or dox school board members who support mask mandates. Or write how armed assault is the only option to prevent Fauci's New World Order.

Do you believe that the 40% unvaxxed in the US do these things? What percentage do these things?

Subtle, i know, but if you read between the lines, there's a teensy bit of malice.

 

[Politesse]

Of course you did not write the words house arrest. But that is what your proposed policy is: detention and confinement at home for the unvaccinated, for an indefinite period of time.

The only reason it's indefinite is vax resistance.

But that isn't the point. I was attacked for describing Toni's policy correctly.

We cznnot begin to estimate when we can get on top of this pandemic, not while people insist on maximizing the virus' chances to spread and mutate, and remain a threat to all.
Thus, taking away their choice to be virus enablers is necessary for the good of the rest of us.
The states already have the right to force vaccinations, since over a century ago, and if discomfort, inconvenience, social pressure, and death don't increase vaccinations, the continued evolution of C19 versions will eventually require this.

We'll certainly see what the American public is willing to support. At the moment, Toni's indefinite house arrest policy is obviously not supported by the broad American public.

I take it you're obsessively fixating on Toni's (alleged) position because you've realized how stupid and melodramatic your argument sounds when applied to any real mandate policies that have been enacted?