Breakdown In Civil Order

[thebeave]

A homeless career criminal has been arrested and charged with brutally assaulting a nurse after police said he was caught on video repeatedly throwing the victim down the stairs at a Seattle light rail station in an unprovoked attack. According to court documents obtained by DailyMail.com, shortly before noon on March 2, a 62-year-old nurse got off the light rail at the Chinatown-International District station and was walking up the stairs when Alexander Jay grabbed her and threw her back down. The horrific attack comes as Seattle continues to be plagued by crime from homeless encampments that have sprouted in the woke Pacific Northwest bastion. Last week, Amazon announced it would relocate 1,800 workers from its downtown offices over fears for their safety.

Daily Mail

The video shows the "homeless" person running up the escalator to cut off his intended victim at the top of the stairs. He throws the woman down the stairs twice, then drags her to the ground, kicks and stamps on her before walking away. This is what happens when you allow the "homeless" encampments to flourish.

What do the quotation marks stand for?

An innocent woman gets horrifically beaten, and a once beautiful city is getting destroyed, and your big concern is quotation marks?

 

[Politesse]

A homeless career criminal has been arrested and charged with brutally assaulting a nurse after police said he was caught on video repeatedly throwing the victim down the stairs at a Seattle light rail station in an unprovoked attack. According to court documents obtained by DailyMail.com, shortly before noon on March 2, a 62-year-old nurse got off the light rail at the Chinatown-International District station and was walking up the stairs when Alexander Jay grabbed her and threw her back down. The horrific attack comes as Seattle continues to be plagued by crime from homeless encampments that have sprouted in the woke Pacific Northwest bastion. Last week, Amazon announced it would relocate 1,800 workers from its downtown offices over fears for their safety.

Daily Mail

The video shows the "homeless" person running up the escalator to cut off his intended victim at the top of the stairs. He throws the woman down the stairs twice, then drags her to the ground, kicks and stamps on her before walking away. This is what happens when you allow the "homeless" encampments to flourish.

What do the quotation marks stand for?

An innocent woman gets horrifically beaten, and a once beautiful city is getting destroyed, and your big concern is quotation marks?

That is not an answer.

 

[TSwizzle]

Trying to clear a "homeless" encampment is Los Angeles;

Authorities in Los Angeles are dismantling a homeless encampment in the Little Tokyo neighborhood after dozens of overdoses, vandalized businesses and several fires. Los Angeles officials are relocating dozens of homeless living in an encampment in the Little Tokyo area just blocks away from City Hall, similar to past cleanups done in Echo Park and MacArthur Park. City Councilman Kevin de León, who represents the area, said that since last month the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority has relocated 55 people living in the encampment into shelters, leaving just 25-30 people to house. But the clean-up has sparked protest from activists with J-Town Action and Solidarity, who say the new housing set up is temporary and takes away the rights of those in the encampment with their rigid rules that include curfews and drug testing. 'You talk to the unhoused people out here throughout L.A. and they will tell you the housing actually makes them feel like prisoners, makes them feel like animals in cages, and it's just not right,' said organizer Steven Chun.

Daily Mail

This is what we are up against in Los Angeles, impotent government and idiot activists that would rather see people die on the streets.

 

[lpetrich]

This case poses a dilemma:

• Police Have Arrested a Man Suspected of Stalking and Shooting Homeless People in New York and Washington | Time
• Man Shooting Homeless in NYC, DC Identified as Gerald Brevard: Official – NBC New York
• Man suspected of stalking, killing homeless people arrested - ABC News - "Police said at least two people were killed and three others wounded in the attacks."

That attacker's victims are far from alone.

Serial murders, beatings and beheadings: Violence against the homeless is increasing, advocates say - The Washington Post

According to experts and advocates, the last year has seen a spike in violence against the homeless. There was a beheading in Colorado. A sleeping man lit on fire in the stairwell of a New York City apartment complex. An attack by four juveniles on a sleeping woman in Washington state. Beyond these lurid headlines, however, are dozens of daily acts of violence occasioned by increasing collisions between the housed and unhoused populations in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic, experts say.

...
Crime perpetrated by unhoused people against others is certainly also happening. On Jan. 16, Martial Simon, 61, who police have said was unhoused, fatally pushed Michelle Alyssa Go, 40, in front of a New York City subway in Times Square.

But past studies have shown the homeless are more likely to be victims of violent crime than housed people. Tracking crimes against individuals experiencing homelessness has always presented a deeper challenge. Unlike sex or race, housing status is not often a factor logged by authorities when recording a crime victim’s details.

People experiencing homelessness are also often reluctant to engage with law enforcement even when they are the victims of a crime.

“They may have had bad experiences in the past with police,” said Bobby Watts, chief executive of the National Health Care for the Homeless Council. “Many of them also have outstanding warrants. Not because of major crimes, but most of those citations would be for vagrancy or public urination, because they don’t have anywhere else to carry out these activities.”

But advocates are mounting a new effort to try to capture violence against the unhoused. In 2020, the National Coalition of the Homeless released a report looking at 20 years of police reports related to crime targeting people living on the street. The analysis found that between 1999 and 2019, there were 1,852 incidents of violence against homeless individuals. Of those attacks, 515 were fatal.

 

[lpetrich]

Microsoft Word - MemDayFlyer06.doc - HardColdFacts.pdf

Homelessness dramatically elevates one's risk of illness, injury and death.

For every age group, homeless persons are three times more likely to die than the general population. Middle-aged homeless men and young homeless women are at particularly increased risk.

The average age of death of homeless persons is about 50 years, the age at which Americans commonly died in 1900. Today, non-homeless Americans can expect to live to age 78.

Homeless people suffer the same illnesses experienced by people with homes, but at rates three to six times higher. This includes potentially lethal communicable diseases such as HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and influenza, as well as cancer, heart disease, diabetes and hypertension.

Homeless persons die from illnesses that can be treated or prevented. Crowded, poorly-ventilated living conditions, found in many shelters, promote the spread of communicable diseases. ...

Homeless persons die on the streets from exposure to the cold. ...

Homeless persons die on the streets from unprovoked violence, also known as hate crimes. ...

Poor access to quality health care reduces the possibility of recovery from illnesses and injuries. ...

The Rate of Homicide Victims Who Are Homeless Is Rising in L.A.

Sixteen percent of all murder victims this year in the city of Los Angeles were homeless.

According to Los Angeles Police Department officials, only 1% of Los Angeles’ population is homeless, yet 31 of the 198 homicide victims this year are homeless. The amount of homeless victims killed this year is double what it was in 2015, even though the overall number of homicides in L.A. is lower. Much of this is due to an increase in the homeless population, but part of it is due to reporting—homelessness among victims was often ignored.

 

[Politesse]

Trying to clear a "homeless" encampment is Los Angeles;

Authorities in Los Angeles are dismantling a homeless encampment in the Little Tokyo neighborhood after dozens of overdoses, vandalized businesses and several fires. Los Angeles officials are relocating dozens of homeless living in an encampment in the Little Tokyo area just blocks away from City Hall, similar to past cleanups done in Echo Park and MacArthur Park. City Councilman Kevin de León, who represents the area, said that since last month the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority has relocated 55 people living in the encampment into shelters, leaving just 25-30 people to house. But the clean-up has sparked protest from activists with J-Town Action and Solidarity, who say the new housing set up is temporary and takes away the rights of those in the encampment with their rigid rules that include curfews and drug testing. 'You talk to the unhoused people out here throughout L.A. and they will tell you the housing actually makes them feel like prisoners, makes them feel like animals in cages, and it's just not right,' said organizer Steven Chun.

Daily Mail

This is what we are up against in Los Angeles, impotent government and idiot activists that would rather see people die on the streets.

Why do you write "homeless"?

Are you attempting to concede that these shelters are, in fact, their homes, and that trying to "clear up" the encampment is therefore an abuse of their most basic of human rights? You "clear up" a bacterial infection, you do not "clear up" someone whose humanity you recognize as equal in worth to your own.

 

[Trausti]

Microsoft Word - MemDayFlyer06.doc - HardColdFacts.pdf

Homelessness dramatically elevates one's risk of illness, injury and death.

For every age group, homeless persons are three times more likely to die than the general population. Middle-aged homeless men and young homeless women are at particularly increased risk.

The average age of death of homeless persons is about 50 years, the age at which Americans commonly died in 1900. Today, non-homeless Americans can expect to live to age 78.

Homeless people suffer the same illnesses experienced by people with homes, but at rates three to six times higher. This includes potentially lethal communicable diseases such as HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis and influenza, as well as cancer, heart disease, diabetes and hypertension.

Homeless persons die from illnesses that can be treated or prevented. Crowded, poorly-ventilated living conditions, found in many shelters, promote the spread of communicable diseases. ...

Homeless persons die on the streets from exposure to the cold. ...

Homeless persons die on the streets from unprovoked violence, also known as hate crimes. ...

Poor access to quality health care reduces the possibility of recovery from illnesses and injuries. ...

The Rate of Homicide Victims Who Are Homeless Is Rising in L.A.

Sixteen percent of all murder victims this year in the city of Los Angeles were homeless.

According to Los Angeles Police Department officials, only 1% of Los Angeles’ population is homeless, yet 31 of the 198 homicide victims this year are homeless. The amount of homeless victims killed this year is double what it was in 2015, even though the overall number of homicides in L.A. is lower. Much of this is due to an increase in the homeless population, but part of it is due to reporting—homelessness among victims was often ignored.

Drugs use is bad and destructive. So sad we have to re-learn this lesson.

 

[TSwizzle]

Are you attempting to concede that these shelters are, in fact, their homes, and that trying to "clear up" the encampment is therefore an abuse of their most basic of human rights? You "clear up" a bacterial infection, you do not "clear up" someone whose humanity you recognize as equal in worth to your own.

People living in their own filth and squalor on the sidewalk is inhumane. But you certainly seem alright with the arrangement.

 

[Jarhyn]

Trying to clear a "homeless" encampment is Los Angeles;

Authorities in Los Angeles are dismantling a homeless encampment in the Little Tokyo neighborhood after dozens of overdoses, vandalized businesses and several fires. Los Angeles officials are relocating dozens of homeless living in an encampment in the Little Tokyo area just blocks away from City Hall, similar to past cleanups done in Echo Park and MacArthur Park. City Councilman Kevin de León, who represents the area, said that since last month the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority has relocated 55 people living in the encampment into shelters, leaving just 25-30 people to house. But the clean-up has sparked protest from activists with J-Town Action and Solidarity, who say the new housing set up is temporary and takes away the rights of those in the encampment with their rigid rules that include curfews and drug testing. 'You talk to the unhoused people out here throughout L.A. and they will tell you the housing actually makes them feel like prisoners, makes them feel like animals in cages, and it's just not right,' said organizer Steven Chun.

Daily Mail

This is what we are up against in Los Angeles, impotent government and idiot activists that would rather see people die on the streets.

Why do you write "homeless"?

Are you attempting to concede that these shelters are, in fact, their homes, and that trying to "clear up" the encampment is therefore an abuse of their most basic of human rights? You "clear up" a bacterial infection, you do not "clear up" someone whose humanity you recognize as equal in worth to your own.

I think that's where the understanding breaks down: people in this world often seek out excuses to judge others' worth as unequal to their own, so that they may "justify" (read: excuse) abuse of those "less important" folks.

 

[Politesse]

Are you attempting to concede that these shelters are, in fact, their homes, and that trying to "clear up" the encampment is therefore an abuse of their most basic of human rights? You "clear up" a bacterial infection, you do not "clear up" someone whose humanity you recognize as equal in worth to your own.

People living in their own filth and squalor on the sidewalk is inhumane. But you certainly seem alright with the arrangement.

Not in the slightest. It's a horror that our society has left so many people in such a desperate situation. And treating people who are already desperate with further abuse and persecution is making that sin worse, not ameliorating it. I spend long hours of my life helping people get into a better position in life, and it does not require stealing what little they have to do so. What the hell do you do to help anyone other than yourself?

And you still didn't answer my question. What do the quotations stand for? You keep writing them, what are they meant to signify?

 

[TSwizzle]

It's a horror that our society has left so many people in such a desperate situation.

You need to understand that for some, quite a lot actually, being "homeless" is a lifestyle choice.

And treating people who are already desperate with further abuse and persecution is making that sin worse, not ameliorating it.

Moving people off the street, out of filth and squalor and into shelters is not abuse or making things worse. You and the activists seem to want to prolong these people's misery.

I spend long hours of my life helping people get into a better position in life, and it does not require stealing what little they have to do so. and it does not require stealing what little they have to do so.

That must make you feel awesome but it doesn't seem to be having any effect here in Los Angeles. What is being stolen exactly? Their dignity by removing them out of their own shit and filth and into shelters? What exactly is your contribution St Politesse?

What the hell do you do to help anyone other than yourself?

The "homeless" problem needs tackled by government and I also do my bit by not shitting, pissing, taking drugs and living on the sidewalk.

 

[Emily Lake]

Trying to clear a "homeless" encampment is Los Angeles;

Authorities in Los Angeles are dismantling a homeless encampment in the Little Tokyo neighborhood after dozens of overdoses, vandalized businesses and several fires. Los Angeles officials are relocating dozens of homeless living in an encampment in the Little Tokyo area just blocks away from City Hall, similar to past cleanups done in Echo Park and MacArthur Park. City Councilman Kevin de León, who represents the area, said that since last month the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority has relocated 55 people living in the encampment into shelters, leaving just 25-30 people to house. But the clean-up has sparked protest from activists with J-Town Action and Solidarity, who say the new housing set up is temporary and takes away the rights of those in the encampment with their rigid rules that include curfews and drug testing. 'You talk to the unhoused people out here throughout L.A. and they will tell you the housing actually makes them feel like prisoners, makes them feel like animals in cages, and it's just not right,' said organizer Steven Chun.

Daily Mail

This is what we are up against in Los Angeles, impotent government and idiot activists that would rather see people die on the streets.

I suspect that the people protesting are people who neither live nor work anywhere near that encampment.

 

[Jarhyn]

Translations:
"it's a lifestyle choice":
I have more of a right to decide how others may live than they themselves have, despite their choices neither picking my pocket nor breaking my legs; my thought of how "unsightly" or "dirty" their life is justifies my interference in their life

"Moving people off the streets is not abuse":
I am more qualified than someone else to decide whether I am being abusive or not.

"I do my bit by not...":
Yes, I am better than them and so they and their wills for their own lives don't matter.

 

[bilby]

Treating homeless people as though they have no rights has a long and sordid history, tied up in religious abuse of this vulnerable group.

The authorities impose a single alternative to homelessness, that is ugly and inhumane, and then when homeless people reject it, those authorities say "well we tried, but you just can't help these people".

Churches (and secular organisations) provide 'shelters' with so many strings attached that it's no surprise people would rather go without their assistance. Curfews? Drug "testing"? (a neat euphemism there - testing is only meaningful in the context of prohibition). Many "shelters" also prohibit alcohol consumption, and treat their residents not as the recipients of assistance, but rather as an easy target for the proselytising that is the actual purpose of the exercise (with the provision of shelter a means to enable this, rather than an end in itself).

Homeless people want (and deserve) liberty. Forcing anyone to trade their liberty for the basics of life - food, shelter, medical care - is utterly inhumane.

If you don't want people shitting in the streets, provide public toilet facilities, and keep them well maintained and cleaned. People don't shit on the streets because they want to; They do it because there's no alternative.

The same goes for people sleeping on the streets. Give them a clean room with a clean bed in it, and they will sleep there - but not if you demand that they be there at a time you demand, sober, drug-free, and ready to listen to your sermons about how fucking terrific Jesus is.

If you impose strict rules, many of these people will just walk away. As is their right, as free adults. They aren't criminals or children; Any attempt to treat them as such is doomed. Yet the providers constantly seem to be surprised (and morally outraged) that homeless people choose to reject the strings attached to their "help".

 

[Politesse]

It's a horror that our society has left so many people in such a desperate situation.

You need to understand that for some, quite a lot actually, being "homeless" is a lifestyle choice.

And treating people who are already desperate with further abuse and persecution is making that sin worse, not ameliorating it.

Moving people off the street, out of filth and squalor and into shelters is not abuse or making things worse. You and the activists seem to want to prolong these people's misery.

I spend long hours of my life helping people get into a better position in life, and it does not require stealing what little they have to do so. and it does not require stealing what little they have to do so.

That must make you feel awesome but it doesn't seem to be having any effect here in Los Angeles. What is being stolen exactly? Their dignity by removing them out of their own shit and filth and into shelters? What exactly is your contribution St Politesse?

What the hell do you do to help anyone other than yourself?

The "homeless" problem needs tackled by government and I also do my bit by not shitting, pissing, taking drugs and living on the sidewalk.

You say that people are making a "lifestyle choice", but also that they are living "in misery". Why would some voluntarily choose to live in misery? And how would doing so make them any more or less homeless than someone whose home was taken from them without consent?

When I help people, and I do, I do so by helping them, not by taking away even more of their civil rights and demanding that they thank me for it. I fully approve of providing services to people who need them. Not arresting and mistreating them without just cause, or describing them in dehumanizing terms.

 

[TSwizzle]

You say that people are making a "lifestyle choice", but also that they are living "in misery". Why would some voluntarily choose to live in misery?

What I said was for some people, "homelessness" is a lifestyle choice. For them, their conditions are not miserable. For others, the ones with chronic mental health or addiction problems, their conditions are inhumane and their lives are miserable if they are aware at all.

And how would doing so make them any more or less homeless than someone whose home was taken from them without consent?

What/who's homes were taken without consent?

When I help people, and I do, I do so by helping them, not by taking away even more of their civil rights and demanding that they thank me for it. I fully approve of providing services to people who need them. Not arresting and mistreating them without just cause, or describing them in dehumanizing terms.

Do you pray for them or something? What tangible help do you provide other than not doing things that you wouldn't do anyway? I assume that you are agreeable that people should be allowed to shit on the sidewalk, parks, planters, doorways etc and this is the best way to show them humanity and empathy and to hell with the insensitive bastards that are trying to live in a society.

 

[bilby]

I assume that you are agreeable that people should be allowed to shit on the sidewalk, parks, planters, doorways etc and this is the best way to show them humanity and empathy and to hell with the insensitive bastards that are trying to live in a society.

I assume that you understand that people have no option but to shit somewhere.

If we don't provide places to shit, then people with no place of their own to shit will shit somewhere you would rather they didn't shit.

In the civilised world, there are public toilets, accessible without charge, by anyone who needs to shit.

But some places have become dominated by shortsighted fools, who imagine that if they deliberately do not provide such facilities, the people with nowhere to shit will simply disappear.

They don't though. They continue to exist, and they shit all over the inhumane society you are trying to live in. If you don't like that, the only solution is to stop being inhumane, and to provide somewhere more pleasant to shit than on the sidewalks.

Of course, this then becomes a problem of the fractured nature of your society. Each authority is aware that if they are the first to provide such facilities, they will immediately attract homeless people from neighbouring areas that do not provide them. There's a strong perceived benefit in having someone else do the right thing, while refusing to do the right thing yourselves.

The solution, of course, is to recognise that selfishness is no way to run a society. But that contradicts everything today's America stands for. So you have shit everywhere. And you still refuse to accept that the blame is entirely your own.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Treating homeless people as though they have no rights has a long and sordid history, tied up in religious abuse of this vulnerable group.

The authorities impose a single alternative to homelessness, that is ugly and inhumane, and then when homeless people reject it, those authorities say "well we tried, but you just can't help these people".

Churches (and secular organisations) provide 'shelters' with so many strings attached that it's no surprise people would rather go without their assistance. Curfews? Drug "testing"? (a neat euphemism there - testing is only meaningful in the context of prohibition). Many "shelters" also prohibit alcohol consumption, and treat their residents not as the recipients of assistance, but rather as an easy target for the proselytising that is the actual purpose of the exercise (with the provision of shelter a means to enable this, rather than an end in itself).

I do agree about getting rid of the religion, but if you put a bunch of people together without rules you'll have even more problems.

If you don't want people shitting in the streets, provide public toilet facilities, and keep them well maintained and cleaned. People don't shit on the streets because they want to; They do it because there's no alternative.

And if you provide them they just get wrecked by druggies.

The same goes for people sleeping on the streets. Give them a clean room with a clean bed in it, and they will sleep there - but not if you demand that they be there at a time you demand, sober, drug-free, and ready to listen to your sermons about how fucking terrific Jesus is.

Without rules it won't be a clean room with a clean bed very long.

If you impose strict rules, many of these people will just walk away. As is their right, as free adults. They aren't criminals or children; Any attempt to treat them as such is doomed. Yet the providers constantly seem to be surprised (and morally outraged) that homeless people choose to reject the strings attached to their "help".

Even as it stands shelters are a safety issue, removing rules will make it worse.

 

[bilby]

if you put a bunch of people together without rules you'll have even more problems.

Who said anything about "without rules"?

It's not necessary to set a curfew in order to have rules. It's not necessary to treat people like infants in order to have rules.

The law applies to all adults. Nobody's suggesting an anarchist colony.

And if stuff gets broken, fix it.

If individuals are vandalising stuff, arrest them, and charge them with criminal damage.

Don't collectively punish all those whose circumstances appear superficially similar, as though they were a bunch of indistinguishable and interchangeable parts.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

if you put a bunch of people together without rules you'll have even more problems.

Who said anything about "without rules"?

It's not necessary to set a curfew in order to have rules. It's not necessary to treat people like infants in order to have rules.

The law applies to all adults. Nobody's suggesting an anarchist colony.

And if stuff gets broken, fix it.

If individuals are vandalising stuff, arrest them, and charge them with criminal damage.

Don't collectively punish all those whose circumstances appear superficially similar, as though they were a bunch of indistinguishable and interchangeable parts.

The current rules aren't adequate to ensure safety in the shelters, yet the argument is for looser rules.

And note that one of the rules being objected to is shower everyday.