Breakdown In Civil Order

[TSwizzle]

Just another day in paradise;

An Oregon woman gave birth on the sidewalk of a Portland street and and abandoned the baby before walking away covered in blood and amniotic fluid, police say. EMS and first responders arrived at SW 13th Ave and SW Market St just before 11 am on Wednesday after receiving reports of a woman, who was not identified, that had given birth on the sidewalk. 'Someone just gave birth and left the baby here. Mom is walking away bleeding,' an unidentified caller told 911.

Daily Mail

 

[Politesse]

Just another day in paradise;

An Oregon woman gave birth on the sidewalk of a Portland street and and abandoned the baby before walking away covered in blood and amniotic fluid, police say. EMS and first responders arrived at SW 13th Ave and SW Market St just before 11 am on Wednesday after receiving reports of a woman, who was not identified, that had given birth on the sidewalk. 'Someone just gave birth and left the baby here. Mom is walking away bleeding,' an unidentified caller told 911.

Daily Mail

It really is annoying how you just drop these links without further input.

Why do you think something like this might happen, and what could we as a society have done to ensure that it didn't? What do you feel should be done for the child?

 

[Politesse]

There have been multiple shooting over the last few days near where I go for my meds, Walgreens at 3rd and Pike.

Yesterday a man ran his car into the federal building, got out and started shooting at the building with a shotgun. Killed by police.

Police have stationed mobile command centers and institued walking patrols at 3rd and Pike and 12th and Jackson both centers of crime and gun violence. Should have been dome years ago. Some progressives actually argued that it was the polce presence that gves rise to crime. Diminish police and crime goes away. This is the kind of thinking behind our city council.

People were literaly walking unopposed into stores walking out with goods, and selling them on the street in front of the stores.

The QFC where I go for groceries on Broadway has armed security guards. The windows are now covered with metal.

Police make a presence and arrests and lo and behold, the criminals leave. We finally have a mayor that takes a hard stand on crime and gives uquakified support to police.

You're saying that the current police regime has a superior method of controlling gun violence, but are also complaining about a recent rash of shootings. Interesting.

 

[TSwizzle]

Why do you think something like this might happen, and what could we as a society have done to ensure that it didn't? What do you feel should be done for the child?

I don't know why this happened, perhaps it has something to do with social policies in Portland? What's this "we" business, I have no control over these things, direct your questions to Portland City Hall. The child should be placed under the care of the father, obviously.

 

[Politesse]

I don't know why this happened, perhaps it has something to do with social policies in Portland? What's this "we" business, I have no control over these things, direct your questions to Portland City Hall. The child should be placed under the care of the father, obviously.

Of course you don't. The fact that you give zero thought to things before posting them is not what's in dispute here, this much is painfully obvious. The question is, what's the point of posting something on a discussion forum that you are utterly incapable of then discussing? If you just want to repost upsetting news items without context or discussion, why not join Reddit?

And no, it's not "obvious" to me that the child should be placed "under the care of the father". I assume you mean a biological father, whose identity may not in fact be known. But if it is, and if he's a responsible caregiver, why was his child just abandoned on a sidewalk? That doesn't seem like very strong credentials to me.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don't know why this happened, perhaps it has something to do with social policies in Portland? What's this "we" business, I have no control over these things, direct your questions to Portland City Hall. The child should be placed under the care of the father, obviously.

Of course you don't. The fact that you give zero thought to things before posting them is not what's in dispute here, this much is painfully obvious. The question is, what's the point of posting something on a discussion forum that you are utterly incapable of then discussing? If you just want to repost upsetting news items without context or discussion, why not join Reddit?

And no, it's not "obvious" to me that the child should be placed "under the care of the father". I assume you mean a biological father, whose identity may not in fact be known. But if it is, and if he's a responsible caregiver, why was his child just abandoned on a sidewalk? That doesn't seem like very strong credentials to me.

Why do you think Portland is such a shit show? Who do you think is responsible for this shit show? How does Portland fix this shit show? Why is this my shit show to fix?

And don't be surprised if the baby ends up in a tent on the sidewalk with the "father". Either that or in the care with a thrupple of lesbians.

 

[Politesse]

Why do you think Portland is such a shit show? Who do you think is responsible for this shit show? How does Portland fix this shit show? Why is this my shit show to fix?

So you think that the serious problems of society aren't "yours to fix", but you wonder why "civil order is breaking down"? It seems pretty obvious to me: if everyone feels as you do, then there will naturally be no civil order at all.

 

[steve_bank]

Portland an Seattle are two of the major progressive cities. Law enforcement has been intentionally and maliciously diminished and maligned. Policing goes down order goes down and crime goes up. It is bad enough in Seattle that significant numbers of police left and it is hard to find replacements.

During the riots our progressive mayor kept repeating people have a right to demonstrate while businesses were being deprived of their tights and people assaulted. Never an outright condemnation of the violence and destruction.

I watched from our building roof deck as a group of 'protesters' marched into Chinatown attacking the businesses of minority Chinese and other Asians themselves with a history of experiencing bias and suppression. This by people allegedly protesting violation of civil rights.

Once a breakdown in order starts it gains momentum. It takes on a life of its own.

Starting to appear in the area, steal a car and drive it through the front of a business. Grab and run.

One of the most bizzare things. Without warning a group walked onto I5 in downtown Seattle trying to stop traffic. A girl was struck and killed. The parentss ued the city for not protiecting her.

 

[TSwizzle]

Why do you think Portland is such a shit show? Who do you think is responsible for this shit show? How does Portland fix this shit show? Why is this my shit show to fix?

So you think that the serious problems of society aren't "yours to fix", but you wonder why "civil order is breaking down"? It seems pretty obvious to me: if everyone feels as you do, then there will naturally be no civil order at all.

The people that created the problems should be the ones to fix the problems.

 

[bilby]

Why do you think Portland is such a shit show? Who do you think is responsible for this shit show? How does Portland fix this shit show? Why is this my shit show to fix?

So you think that the serious problems of society aren't "yours to fix", but you wonder why "civil order is breaking down"? It seems pretty obvious to me: if everyone feels as you do, then there will naturally be no civil order at all.

The people that created the problems should be the ones to fix the problems.

Sure they should. But you can't rely on selfish Republican gits to fix anything, so it will instead be up to those not completely incapable of compassion and empathy.

 

[Politesse]

Why do you think Portland is such a shit show? Who do you think is responsible for this shit show? How does Portland fix this shit show? Why is this my shit show to fix?

So you think that the serious problems of society aren't "yours to fix", but you wonder why "civil order is breaking down"? It seems pretty obvious to me: if everyone feels as you do, then there will naturally be no civil order at all.

The people that created the problems should be the ones to fix the problems.

Ronnie Reagan is dead, dude. It's up to us to fix the mental health/homelessness problems his brainless policies have led us to.

 

[TSwizzle]

Ronnie Reagan is dead, dude.

Dead since 2004 and out of office since 1989. I don't know what that has to do with the price of cheese, nor do I care. So let's deal with the present, I dare you.

It's up to us to fix the mental health/homelessness problems his brainless policies have led us to.

How bad does it have to get before YOU fix this shit show? What are YOUR plans to fix this shit show? Hmm?

 

[Politesse]

Dead since 2004 and out of office since 1989. I don't know what that has to do with the price of cheese, nor do I care. So let's deal with the present, I dare you

Yet when I suggest that we ought to deal with the present, you say "why is that my problem to solve?" And that's why Republicans are useless, in a nutshell.

I've been more than clear; the US needs to develop a better social conscience, caring for its disadvantaged members both through government support and citizen activism. The wealth disparities that have ripped the country apart must be curbed by reasonable legislation, and the encouragement of free enterprise and useful education. Science, including that produced by the social sciences, should be the most significant guide to social policy. Racial and ethnic bias are a poison whose best antidote is also education, and open and honest conversation across seeming cultural divides. I personally make my living pursuing all of these goals on a daily basis, and so should you if your "concern" over crime and public health is anything other than a rhetorical feint to get at your imagined political enemies.

 

[TSwizzle]

Dead since 2004 and out of office since 1989. I don't know what that has to do with the price of cheese, nor do I care. So let's deal with the present, I dare you

Yet when I suggest that we ought to deal with the present, you say "why is that my problem to solve?" {snip}

Politicians solve these problems. Or at least they should but they don't. You are banging on about republicans and yet Newson in California, a state run by democrats, have made the problems worse, not better. People are living on the sidewalk, shitting in the street and the problem is getting worse, not better. But go ahead, blame a long dead president.

I've been more than clear; the US needs to develop a better social conscience, caring for its disadvantaged members both through government support and citizen activism. The wealth disparities that have ripped the country apart must be curbed by reasonable legislation, and the encouragement of free enterprise and useful education. Science, including that produced by the social sciences, should be the most significant guide to social policy. Racial and ethnic bias are a poison whose best antidote is also education, and open and honest conversation across seeming cultural divides.

What a load of bollocks. People will continue to live on the sidewalk and shit in the gutter and things will get worse unless there is action NOW.

I personally make my living pursuing all of these goals on a daily basis, and so should you if your "concern" over crime and public health is anything other than a rhetorical feint to get at your imagined political enemies.

Great, virtue signaling bullshit. You'd make an ideal politician.

 

[Politesse]

People will continue to live on the sidewalk and shit in the gutter and things will get worse unless there is action NOW.

Which is why I strongly support substantive, immediate action on social concerns. And why I oppose the Republican Party, which as near as I can see tries to block any action taken to ameliorate societal suffering. I've spent much of the last year fighting to allow the continued construction of a homeless transition center a few blocks from me. Even in this fairly liberal city, Republican troublemakers and their "moderate" (ie wealthy) Democratic sympathizers have repeatedly managed to stall the project with various nonsensical objections. They offer no coherent or consistent explanation as to why they oppose it, preferring to wave around wild conspiracy theories about who is funding it (this is an easily answerable question) and what its results will be (as though the current completely uncontrolled situation could somehow be better than helping people find jobs, homes, and medical care). I've had it with this species of blustering nonsense. Either grow up, or step back and let the adults handle questions of social policy and action.

As for your final "insult", I think people should in fact strive to be virtuous, especially if they've spent some time rationally considering what their key motivating virtues are or should be. Try it some time. You'd be far more useful human being if you invested in trying to exemplify your own virtues rather than dedicating your hours to tearing down the perceived flaws of others. If you have a rational argument against my chosen virtues or how I implement them, I'm willing to consider that argument, but I'm not ashamed to simply have or express virtues. That's perfectly fine by me, and as long as those virtues are not pursued hypocritically or harmfully, I think society would be better off if its members spent more time meditating on virtue. If you're confused or mistakenly offended by the very concept of virtue, read some damn Aristotle.

 

[TSwizzle]

Which is why I strongly support substantive, immediate action on social concerns. And why I oppose the Republican Party, which as near as I can see tries to block any action taken to ameliorate societal suffering. I've spent much of the last year fighting to allow the continued construction of a homeless transition center a few blocks from me. Even in this fairly liberal city, Republican troublemakers and their "moderate" (ie wealthy) Democratic sympathizers have repeatedly managed to stall the project with various nonsensical objections. They offer no coherent or consistent explanation as to why they oppose it, preferring to wave around wild conspiracy theories about who is funding it (this is an easily answerable question) and what its results will be (as though the current completely uncontrolled situation could somehow be better than helping people find jobs, homes, and medical care). I've had it with this species of blustering nonsense. Either grow up, or step back and let the adults handle questions of social policy and action.

Oh great, a slogan for your t-shirt now. Yeah, let the "adults" handle it. Were the children in charge of it before? Was it a long dead president?

As for your final "insult", I think people should in fact strive to be virtuous, especially if they've spent some time rationally considering what their key motivating virtues are or should be. Try it some time. You'd be far more useful human being if you invested in trying to exemplify your own virtues rather than dedicating your hours to tearing down the perceived flaws of others. If you have a rational argument against my chosen virtues or how I implement them, I'm willing to consider that argument, but I'm not ashamed to simply have or express virtues. That's perfectly fine by me, and as long as those virtues are not pursued hypocritically or harmfully, I think society would be better off if its members spent more time meditating on virtue. If you're confused or mistakenly offended by the very concept of virtue, read some damn Aristotle.

It doesn't offend me, it wastes my bandwidth, bores the shit out of me and helps no one.

I guess we are done, you're back to square one again. People living on the sidewalk and shitting in the gutter.

At least Newsom appears to be taking a step in the right direction but I have not had a chance to see the details. We shall see.

 

[Politesse]

Oh great, a slogan for your t-shirt now. Yeah, let the "adults" handle it. Were the children in charge of it before? Was it a long dead president?

No, a long dead governor, who then became a long dead president. Do you seriously know this little about the political history of your own state? Homeless citizens do not grow on trees. Did you know that homeless people in California do not occur at a consistent rate? Rather, the homeless population is aging, on average, at nearly the same rate as the natural progress of time, which is one of several reasons we know that the population in question is for the most part a single, aging cohort whose unstable housing situation began around the same time in California history. A very specific time period whose conditions and effects are actually extremely well known. The only outliers have been sporadic periods of homelessness waves created by three events: two foreign wars, and a barely controlled epidemic-cum-economic downturn, also spurred on by the damn Republicans. You people have contributed nothing to this state but bile and new problems to solve for the last forty years.

 

[TSwizzle]

Oh great, a slogan for your t-shirt now. Yeah, let the "adults" handle it. Were the children in charge of it before? Was it a long dead president?

No, a long dead governor, who then became a long dead president. Do you seriously know this little about the political history of your own state? Homeless citizens do not grow on trees. Did you know that homeless people in California do not occur at a consistent rate? Rather, the homeless population is aging, on average, at about the same rate as the natural progress of time, which is one of several reasons we know that the population in question is for the most part a single, aging cohort whose unstable housing situation began around the same time in California history. A very specific time period whose conditions and effects are actually extremely well known.

Since I am an immigrant, no I don't but on looking up Wiki, it appears Reagan was governor of California 1971 1975, succeeded by Jerry Brown. One term. And you blame this humanitarian crisis in California on someone who left office in 1975?!! Get a grip of yourself.

The situation in California is getting exponentially worse, not better. You can stand on the sidelines wringing your hands as much as you like, blaming dead presidents and republicans. You're a part of the problem.

Homeless citizens do not grow on trees.

 

[Trausti]

Oh great, a slogan for your t-shirt now. Yeah, let the "adults" handle it. Were the children in charge of it before? Was it a long dead president?

No, a long dead governor, who then became a long dead president. Do you seriously know this little about the political history of your own state? Homeless citizens do not grow on trees. Did you know that homeless people in California do not occur at a consistent rate? Rather, the homeless population is aging, on average, at nearly the same rate as the natural progress of time, which is one of several reasons we know that the population in question is for the most part a single, aging cohort whose unstable housing situation began around the same time in California history. A very specific time period whose conditions and effects are actually extremely well known. The only outliers have been sporadic periods of homelessness waves created by three events: two foreign wars, and a barely controlled epidemic-cum-economic downturn, also spurred on by the damn Republicans. You people have contributed nothing to this state but bile and new problems to solve for the last forty years.

Ya gotta be kidding. Dems/liberals have near total control of California; and have so for a generation. What they want they get. When is the last time SF or LA had a Republican mayor? But it isn’t really a Dem/Rep issue. SF wasn’t a shit hole in the 90s. But the retreat of the Reps let the far left take over the Dems. Rational people realize that failing to address drug addiction and mental illness means the problem will continue to get worse. But the far left has made noticing that verboten.

 

[Politesse]

You can stand on the sidelines wringing your hands as much as you like, blaming dead presidents and republicans.

I can't read this as anything but projection. I take action on these issues on a regular basis, while you sit around and whine on the internet about how everything is someone else's problem to solve.