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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

steve_bank said:
Then the invasion of Ukraine. It had nothing to do with any European or Ukrainian military threat to Russia. It is the same old Soviet imperialism that started with Stalin.
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That's BS perpetuated by neocon MSM.
On a tactical level, Putin had no choice but to respond to US/NATO provocations. Public opinion was for it and if he had done nothing he would have risked having unrest in Russia. Putin has given Ukrainians multiple chances to avoid this war and settle on remarkably good for Ukraine terms. But the goal of regime in washington was not peace, their goal was to regime change Putin. They planned to start a war in Ukraine and have Russia lose it and maidan Putin out.
Problem is, plan did not work at all. In particular sanctions not only did not work, they did the exact opposite, they helped Russia economically, mainly becasue they stopped money drain to the West.
China and the rest of the global majority did not support sanctions. Russian oligarchs were sanctioned to the point where they could not pay people to tie their shoelaces. By the way, yachts you stole from russian oligarchs require expensive maintenance fee. And you can't sell them becasue nobody wants to buy stolen property.
You idiots basically provided free of charge parking and maintenance for these yachts. Cause you know what's going to happen, you are going to return them to their rightful owners. Same with arrested russian funds. You are going to return every cent of it. Saudi Arabia and other ME monarchies will make sure you do.
Unipolar world is over, learn to live in a new world.
 
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I am busy watching Star Trek reruns, my response will have to wait Barbos.

So this is how media poetical pundits make a living, nice work if you can get it.

Thanks for the reps folks, nice to know somebody other than Barbos reads my posts.
 
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
Then the invasion of Ukraine. It had nothing to do with any European or Ukrainian military threat to Russia. It is the same old Soviet imperialism that started with Stalin.
Click to expand...
That's BS perpetuated by neocon MSM.
On a tactical level, Putin had no choice but to respond to US/NATO provocations. Public opinion was for it and if he had done nothing he would have risked having unrest in Russia.
Click to expand...
Really? It was a popular idea? Do you remember back in 2021, before the Russian sneak attack on Ukraine? In 2021, in post #4 in this thread YOU wrote: "No one in Russia considers it a great idea."

Putin has given Ukrainians multiple chances to avoid this war and settle on remarkably good for Ukraine terms. But the goal of regime in washington was not peace, their goal was to regime change Putin. They planned to start a war in Ukraine and have Russia lose it and maidan Putin out.
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Remember when I said it was a sneak attack? That's because Putin didn't actually warn Ukraine that a war was coming. Putin is a conniving snake who pretended he was having "military exercises" then chose to surprise the Ukranians with a whole lot of fucking murder. Russia didn't give Ukraine a chance to avoid this war because the war was a surprise! Hell the invasion of Russian soldiers (out of uniform) in 2014 into the Donbas was a deceptive surprise attack too. Don't fucking tell us that Russia was tricked into this war, or that it was planned by Washington. If Putin had actually warned Ukraine about war, there would be a record of their correspondence instead of a series of lies and deceptions on the part of Putin regarding the multiple illegal invasions of Ukraine.

You don't understand what I just wrote, so let me simplify it for you. If you want to manipulate someone else's behavior, you need to communicate with them. You are saying here that Russia was using the threat of violence to coerce Ukraine into cooperation. I call bullshit. Because if the threat of violence was explicit, then the lies about the "military exercises" would be unnecessary. Extortionists don't attack people by surprise, they make it very clear what their intentions are and what they want and when the deadline for compliance is. Russia didn't do any of that. It's imperialism. Putin is thief and a murderer, That's why he fooled even YOU back in 2021, because he was lying to EVERYONE.
Problem is, plan did not work at all. In particular sanctions not only did not work, they did the exact opposite, they helped Russia economically, mainly becasue they stopped money drain to the West.
China and the rest of the global majority did not support sanctions. Russian oligarchs were sanctioned to the point where they could not pay people to tie their shoelaces. By the way, yachts you stole from russian oligarchs require expensive maintenance fee. And you can't sell them becasue nobody wants to buy stolen property.
You idiots basically provided free of charge parking and maintenance for these yachts. Cause you know what's going to happen, you are going to return them to their rightful owners. Same with arrested russian funds. You are going to return every cent of it. Saudi Arabia and other ME monarchies will make sure you do.
Unipolar world is over, learn to live in a new world.
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LOL, If sanctions weren't working you wouldn't complain so much about them.:p
 
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zorq said:
We now know and independent observers confirmed it at the time that Ukrainina regime was increasing their shelling of NBReally? It was a popular idea? Do you remember back in 2021, before the Russian sneak attack on Ukraine?
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I was not in Russian government and was not privy to the data they had at the time.
But if have to guess, I think when it comes to higher level plans and Ukraine-US interactions russian government knew everything. Russia had and still has tons of spies in Ukrainian government. Same with russo-georgian war. Russians knew about georgian plans in 2008.
 
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Elixir said:
Then why are you saying someone else should do that?
In English it’s called HYPOCRISY. Look it up.
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I have always said that Ukraine should not have fallen in the NATO trap. But they needed wiser leaders for that than Poroshenko and Zelensky. What hypocrisy are you talking about?
 
barbos said:
ZiprHead said:
barbos said:
ZiprHead said:
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
Putin is an incompetent dictator obsessed on Ukraine. He has no way to back out, the only thing he can do is kill Ukrainian citizens.
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I think he is pretty competent but it is true that Russia and he himself has no way back out. Russia has to finish Ukraine to stay independent. Russia can not allow that shit you do go unpunished. And if we need to kill ukrainian soldiers for that so be it. Their deaths are on you and ukro-regime you installed. Georgians were punished and learned their lesson, so will ukrainians, eventually.
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What exactly is the shit we do that we need to be punished for?
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Ask Georgians, they will explain it to you.
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I don't know any Georgians although I did meet a family that fled when Russia took over. So no. You made the statement. You support it.
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I did, million times.
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Then do it a million and one times. And be specific.
 
aupmanyav said:
Harry Bosch said:
It's true that ultimately Nato's purpose .. an accident could happen leading to WW3. No one wins in this situation.
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So, Ukraine is just a fall guy for NATO.
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Well, you snipped my post and took me out of context. Nato's purpose is to discourage Russia from invading its members. In this, it has been wildly successful.
 
aupmanyav said:
Elixir said:
Then why are you saying someone else should do that?
In English it’s called HYPOCRISY. Look it up.
Click to expand...
I have always said that Ukraine should not have fallen in the NATO trap. But they needed wiser leaders for that than Poroshenko and Zelensky. What hypocrisy are you talking about?
Click to expand...
There would be no war right now if Ukraine had been in Nato.
 
aupmanyav said:
Harry Bosch said:
It's true that ultimately Nato's purpose .. an accident could happen leading to WW3. No one wins in this situation.
Click to expand...
So, Ukraine is just a fall guy for NATO.
Click to expand...
Maybe kinda like Germany and Japan were fall guys for the Allies. Those countries went down the shitter because they invaded other countries and committed atrocities like Russia is doing in Ukraine. After their defeat both countries became economic giants. Maybe that's barbos's plan, destroy Russia so it can become a modern state. Tricksy barbos.
 
barbos said:
steve_bank said:
Then the invasion of Ukraine. It had nothing to do with any European or Ukrainian military threat to Russia. It is the same old Soviet imperialism that started with Stalin.
Click to expand...
That's BS perpetuated by neocon MSM.
On a tactical level, Putin had no choice but to respond to US/NATO provocations. Public opinion was for it and if he had done nothing he would have risked having unrest in Russia. Putin has given Ukrainians multiple chances to avoid this war and settle on remarkably good for Ukraine terms. But the goal of regime in washington was not peace, their goal was to regime change Putin. They planned to start a war in Ukraine and have Russia lose it and maidan Putin out.
Problem is, plan did not work at all. In particular sanctions not only did not work, they did the exact opposite, they helped Russia economically, mainly becasue they stopped money drain to the West.
China and the rest of the global majority did not support sanctions. Russian oligarchs were sanctioned to the point where they could not pay people to tie their shoelaces. By the way, yachts you stole from russian oligarchs require expensive maintenance fee. And you can't sell them becasue nobody wants to buy stolen property.
You idiots basically provided free of charge parking and maintenance for these yachts. Cause you know what's going to happen, you are going to return them to their rightful owners. Same with arrested russian funds. You are going to return every cent of it. Saudi Arabia and other ME monarchies will make sure you do.
Unipolar world is over, learn to live in a new world.
Click to expand...
The unwritten agreement was the west provides security in the gulf and the Arabs keep oil flowin and keep prices stable, the global economy.

The Arabs and Egypt were once in the Russian sphere, but no longer. Our msin fsire i fregn policy is in thinking counties like Afghanistan and Iraq will become stable democracies, which they did not. Yes, we invaded Iraq and we did not dominate, we handed them the freedom to choose a free democracy, and it failed.

Italy, Germany, and Japan post war became free independent states post WWII. You can in no way compare the USA and the west to the the Soviets, Russia today, and Putin. The west as a fundamental principle is the right to chose free of coercion. The polar opposite of post revolution Russia to today.

Post WWII Russia created the Iron Curtain. Poland and other counties controlled by military force. Poland remembers.

Putin is a continuation o Stalinism. Brutal, oppressive, and militaristic. An anachronism to the west, and a threat to liberties.
 
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