16 Nobel Prize Winning Economists Warn Trump Will Ruin Economy

[Loren Pechtel]

Until we solve identity theft there's not much that can be done about illegals.

Instead of working under a completely fictitious identity they'll work under a stolen one.

OK. I interpret this as meaning that, in your opinion, MILLIONS of undocumented immigrants are working under a "stolen ID." I wonder what you think a "stolen ID" is and how much it costs.

Look at how much identity theft there is going on. It's in the news repeatedly.

Really? I remember that in the early 1990's a decree went out from Caesar Williamus that all the employees would be checked. Supposedly -- and this actually happened where I was employed -- everyone was required to present a birth certificate! (I don't remember if passport could be substituted.)

How many undocumented workers actually have valid-looking U.S. birth certificates?

My wife is a US citizen. She does not have anything that resembles a US birth certificate.

For that matter, she doesn't really have a birth certificate at all. The document we provided amounted to an official statement that this is what the records say.

Is this how the undocumented immigrants steal their IDs?

If not, do you see that the two LP posts appear to completely jump from one side of the "issue" to the completely opposite side?

He said to check birth certificates. I was showing that that is inadequate because the absence of a US birth certificate doesn't make someone an illegal.

The ones that knowingly hire illegals are small, they don't add up to all that many jobs.

Cite? I think most employers of very low-wage workers are either aware, or deliberately try to avoid becoming aware.

The thing is only the very small places can actually hope to get away with hiring under the table.

This seemed unlikely, so I presented Google with "big companies hire illegal aliens." Here is the first hit:

One of those janitors — a 57-year-old Mexican immigrant who preferred to go by his nickname, “Chunco” — has worked for various contractors cleaning Target stores in Central Texas for about 12 years, despite lacking the legal right to work in the United States.

And he’s not alone: “All of the [cleaning] workers I’ve known were undocumented,” Chunco told The Texas Tribune, speaking in his native Spanish.

While his immigration status hasn’t posed a significant roadblock to his continued employment, it has exposed him to the risks that come with working in the shadows. He and his fellow custodians have repeatedly been paid less than minimum wage and worked six or seven days a week with no overtime pay, according to court records and Texas Tribune interviews. In some cases, they accumulated those overtime hours when Target managers would lock them in the store for extra tasks.

I am not trying to target Target specifically. It was just the first Google hit.

Foot, meet bullet.

You aren't showing Target hiring illegals. You are showing Target hiring contract cleaners--many big businesses do this sort of thing, outsourcing things that need doing but which aren't really what the business is about. And are they truly locked in or is it simply the doors are locked but it would be possible to exit?? Fire doors usually are designed to open from the inside only and may be designed with a short alarm before opening, but they normally exist.

And it would be no surprise all the ones he knew were undocumented. He's working for a small company that employs illegals. Of course his coworkers are illegals.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So, then why is Biden even bothering with the border and why is Ziprhead announcing such yawn worthy "breaking news"?

Nobody in either political party gives a shit about immigration. But they ALL care about votes, and talking about immigrants can win or lose a lot of votes.

Doing something? No, not many votes there. Better to just keep yapping...

Same as with any problem without easy answers.

And the Democrats don't go around proclaiming obvious falsehoods.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

she doesn't really have a birth certificate at all. The document we provided amounted to an official statement that this is what the records say.

That is the definition of "Birth Certificate".

No, it's not.

A birth certificate is a document created when a baby is born that identifies the situation. No document was made about her birth, it was simply noted in the appropriate register. If nothing else, a birth certificate is signed by the parent(s). Nothing of the sort exists, the record is simply a line on a page of births. Think of an accounting ledger.

 

[Toni]

she doesn't really have a birth certificate at all. The document we provided amounted to an official statement that this is what the records say.

That is the definition of "Birth Certificate".

No, it's not.

A birth certificate is a document created when a baby is born that identifies the situation. No document was made about her birth, it was simply noted in the appropriate register. If nothing else, a birth certificate is signed by the parent(s). Nothing of the sort exists, the record is simply a line on a page of births. Think of an accounting ledger.

Until relatively recently, births, deaths and marriages were recorded in the family bible and that was considered an official document. AFAIK, it still is for people of a certain age. My parents were both born at home, as were their parents, and so on as was the practice of the day. I'm not certain my parents ever had a birth certificate. Now, my siblings and I do, and our children but we were born in a different generation and in a hospital.

 

[Bronzeage]

she doesn't really have a birth certificate at all. The document we provided amounted to an official statement that this is what the records say.

That is the definition of "Birth Certificate".

No, it's not.

A birth certificate is a document created when a baby is born that identifies the situation. No document was made about her birth, it was simply noted in the appropriate register. If nothing else, a birth certificate is signed by the parent(s). Nothing of the sort exists, the record is simply a line on a page of births. Think of an accounting ledger.

Until relatively recently, births, deaths and marriages were recorded in the family bible and that was considered an official document. AFAIK, it still is for people of a certain age. My parents were both born at home, as were their parents, and so on as was the practice of the day. I'm not certain my parents ever had a birth certificate. Now, my siblings and I do, and our children but we were born in a different generation and in a hospital.

Until relatively recently, a person's date of birth was of little interest or important, outside of their family.

There were two main occasions when it was important. The first was to determine if a person was old enough to claim an inheritance which was being managed by another person when they were a child. The second was when they were old enough to receive an "old age" pension. A family Bible with a convincing record of births and deaths was perfectly acceptable.

These days, a birth certificate is more often demanded for proof of where a person was born, than when.

 

[bilby]

she doesn't really have a birth certificate at all. The document we provided amounted to an official statement that this is what the records say.

That is the definition of "Birth Certificate".

No, it's not.

A birth certificate is a document created when a baby is born that identifies the situation.

Maybe it is in the USA, but that's not the case for UK (or Australian, and presumably other Commonwealth countries) Birth Certificates.

No document was made about her birth, it was simply noted in the appropriate register.

Mine too.

If nothing else, a birth certificate is signed by the parent(s).

Not mine. It's signed by the registrar of Births, Marriages and Deaths, who certifies it to be a true copy of the information recorded in the register of births for my place of birth.

It is that certification that makes it a certificate.

Nothing of the sort exists, the record is simply a line on a page of births. Think of an accounting ledger.

The entire world is marching out of step, except the USA. Gotcha.

 

[Shadowy Man]

The entire world is marching out of step, except the USA. Gotcha.

bilby is finally catching on.

 

[laughing dog]

The entire world is marching out of step, except the USA. Gotcha.

I blame the metric system.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

she doesn't really have a birth certificate at all. The document we provided amounted to an official statement that this is what the records say.

That is the definition of "Birth Certificate".

No, it's not.

A birth certificate is a document created when a baby is born that identifies the situation. No document was made about her birth, it was simply noted in the appropriate register. If nothing else, a birth certificate is signed by the parent(s). Nothing of the sort exists, the record is simply a line on a page of births. Think of an accounting ledger.

Until relatively recently, births, deaths and marriages were recorded in the family bible and that was considered an official document. AFAIK, it still is for people of a certain age. My parents were both born at home, as were their parents, and so on as was the practice of the day. I'm not certain my parents ever had a birth certificate. Now, my siblings and I do, and our children but we were born in a different generation and in a hospital.

Exactly. I don't know all the details but you're describing something at least similar to her situation. It's something a lot more official than the family bible but it's the same concept of a log of such actions as opposed to individual documents.

 

[Toni]

she doesn't really have a birth certificate at all. The document we provided amounted to an official statement that this is what the records say.

That is the definition of "Birth Certificate".

No, it's not.

A birth certificate is a document created when a baby is born that identifies the situation. No document was made about her birth, it was simply noted in the appropriate register. If nothing else, a birth certificate is signed by the parent(s). Nothing of the sort exists, the record is simply a line on a page of births. Think of an accounting ledger.

Until relatively recently, births, deaths and marriages were recorded in the family bible and that was considered an official document. AFAIK, it still is for people of a certain age. My parents were both born at home, as were their parents, and so on as was the practice of the day. I'm not certain my parents ever had a birth certificate. Now, my siblings and I do, and our children but we were born in a different generation and in a hospital.

Exactly. I don't know all the details but you're describing something at least similar to her situation. It's something a lot more official than the family bible but it's the same concept of a log of such actions as opposed to individual documents.

The family Bible and baptismal records as well as church records of marriages and deaths/burials have long been considered official records. This IS changing but for older adults that was what was available abd was taken as authoritative proof of live birth, marriage, and death.

I’ve done a small amount of research on Ancestry and looking at census records, I noticed some incorrect entries, and inconsistencies from one census record to the next, in spelling and even country of birth for my own great grandparents and some of which contradicted what my parents and grandparents told me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The family Bible and baptismal records as well as church records of marriages and deaths/burials have long been considered official records. This IS changing but for older adults that was what was available abd was taken as authoritative proof of live birth, marriage, and death.

I’ve done a small amount of research on Ancestry and looking at census records, I noticed some incorrect entries, and inconsistencies from one census record to the next, in spelling and even country of birth for my own great grandparents and some of which contradicted what my parents and grandparents told me.

Yeah, I've found an inconsistency with my grandfather. Completely unimportant, by the time I actually knew him we were taking care of him because his mind wasn't up to living alone anymore so I never really knew him as a person.