1st presidential debate 2016

[iolo]

I listened to about 25 minutes. It was very boring but was nevertheless keeping me awake with horror that any democratic electorate could give any credence to that fat self-obsessed bully, so I changed over to somebody singing (at about two in the morning!) to small children, stuff about five red apples being blown off a tree, one by one. It had rather more intellectual content, I felt, but I dropped off when it was followed by an endless story about a small boy chasing a rolling apple around a supermarket. What is the point of anyone's 'debating' with this tedious yob trump?

 

[whichphilosophy]

If he is having his finances audited it means he cannot release the tax returns until that process is completed as I understand this is the process in the USA also for submitting a full set of accounts which has been checked by a certified accountant. The IRS I understand will also audit as small percentage of tax returns it receives. It's not clear if his accountant has these of the IRS does. I haven't seen the recording of the debate yet.

There is also nothing to prevent him releasing figures before such an audit is done, but it is common practice to wait until the tax authority has concluded its audit.

If there are old accounts going back a few years and unaffected he could release these which applies to many of his companies.

No, being audited does not prevent Donald Trump from releasing his tax returns

Don't listen to Donald. Donald Lies.

I wouldn't want to release my tax records until they audited or rubber stamped by the Inland revenue. I don't think many companies will do the same. However this leads to speculation. Until Obama released his birth certificate there was a lot of speculation that he wasn't American.

 

[Keith&Co.]

People kept rebutting the IRS says it's okay, but what does that have to do with how he's releasing the documents?

It just seems that his story keeps changing. He can't, he won't, it's the law, it's the lawyers, not every president reveals their tax records so it's okay, ...

Maybe if he'd started with 'I'm a great businessman and it's not a sound business decision to reveal tax returns during an audit' and stuck with that....At least it would look better than this map-wandering excuse obstacle course.

I mean, after years of raising children and leading sailors, I get suspicious when the excuses multiply, esp. if they refute themselves...

 

[credoconsolans]

Where do you understand that from? The IRS and everyone except Trump are quite clear that there's no reason he can't release them.

And even Trump said he could release them 'immediately' if Hillary released her emails. So Trump is lying - yet again.

 

[Angry Floof]

No, being audited does not prevent Donald Trump from releasing his tax returns

Don't listen to Donald. Donald Lies.

I wouldn't want to release my tax records until they audited or rubber stamped by the Inland revenue. I don't think many companies will do the same. However this leads to speculation. Until Obama released his birth certificate there was a lot of speculation that he wasn't American.

And the purpose of that is to confuse and demonize, and to distort the truth of one's own actions. In other words, Donald Trump is a great scientologist. No wonder cultists love him so much. He also values appearances over honesty, and fears exposure.

 

[Thomas II]

I wouldn't want to release my tax records until they audited or rubber stamped by the Inland revenue. I don't think many companies will do the same. However this leads to speculation. Until Obama released his birth certificate there was a lot of speculation that he wasn't American.

And the purpose of that is to confuse and demonize, and to distort the truth of one's own actions. In other words, Donald Trump is a great scientologist. No wonder cultists love him so much. He also values appearances over honesty, and fears exposure.

He looked unhinged, sniffling, uncomfortable, unprepared, loud, unprofessional, amateurish, interrupting, bullying, unpresidential, rambling...

She looked poised, healthy, comfortable, prepared, appropriate, professional, clear, and very Presidential...

 

[Cobalt]

Where do you understand that from? The IRS and everyone except Trump are quite clear that there's no reason he can't release them.

Maybe there are ambiguous areas of the tax returns. So he'd want the IRS to say his tax payments are good first before publicizing them. That's not something the IRS cares about, but instead his lawyers care about it. And that's why he said several times that his lawyers don't want him to release them yet. People kept rebutting the IRS says it's okay, but what does that have to do with how he's releasing the documents?

Such concerns would only apply to the time before one submits a return - not to the time after one has submitted a return. In case you aren't aware, the discussion is about returns that he and his lawyers already thought good enough to send to the IRS.

 

[laughing dog]

How can someone who is too chickenshit to release his tax returns or medical records be expected to show courage to stand up to ISIS or Putin or a dangerous threat to the US?

 

[DrZoidberg]

How can someone who is too chickenshit to release his tax returns or medical records be expected to show courage to stand up to ISIS or Putin or a dangerous threat to the US?

That's not courage. It's intelligence. Fighting battles you know you'll lose is stupid. He said it himself. He didn't release his tax records because he's smart. Ie, if he would release them he would be found guilty. Too bad people are too idiotic to draw that obvious conclusion.

 

[ZiprHead]

He can't string a coherent thought to save his life.

And why is he sniffing so much?

I was wondering that, too. lol

Cocaine would explain that, and his attitude.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I listened to about 25 minutes. It was very boring but was nevertheless keeping me awake with horror that any democratic electorate could give any credence to that fat self-obsessed bully, so I changed over to somebody singing (at about two in the morning!) to small children, stuff about five red apples being blown off a tree, one by one. It had rather more intellectual content, I felt, but I dropped off when it was followed by an endless story about a small boy chasing a rolling apple around a supermarket. What is the point of anyone's 'debating' with this tedious yob trump?

I don't think Hilary is that fat any more. She did lose weight during the past few years.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Where do you understand that from? The IRS and everyone except Trump are quite clear that there's no reason he can't release them.

Maybe there are ambiguous areas of the tax returns. So he'd want the IRS to say his tax payments are good first before publicizing them. That's not something the IRS cares about, but instead his lawyers care about it. And that's why he said several times that his lawyers don't want him to release them yet. People kept rebutting the IRS says it's okay, but what does that have to do with how he's releasing the documents?

Well, that's not related to any of the rationales which Trump has made but, just for the sake of argument, let's pretend that this has some relevance to the current conversation. This would affect one, maybe two, years of taxes. He could still release many years of finalized tax returns which the government is not currently reviewing and answer all the questions that people have.

The voters could see how much he was worth a few years ago and extrapolate that to see if his statements about his current wealth hold up. They could see what tax rate he's paying to see if the claims that he's not even paying federal taxes are true. They could see if his history of charitable contributions matches his statements about how much he gives, etc. They could see what foreign dealings he has which might be a conflict of interest should he win the election and take those into account. Withholding the last couple of years for some legitimate legal reasons wouldn't affect his ability to answer all of the above questions and more.

Even if there is some actual legitimate reason to withhold the latest returns due to an audit and that's not just one more of the countless lies he's made, it still wouldn't be relevant.

 

[funinspace]

After all the interruptions and bluster and defensiveness, it's weird how quiet Trump was the whole time Hillary questioned his finances and refusal to release his tax returns.

If he is having his finances audited it means he cannot release the tax returns until that process is completed as I understand this is the process in the USA also for submitting a full set of accounts which has been checked by a certified accountant. The IRS I understand will also audit as small percentage of tax returns it receives. It's not clear if his accountant has these of the IRS does. I haven't seen the recording of the debate yet.

There is also nothing to prevent him releasing figures before such an audit is done, but it is common practice to wait until the tax authority has concluded its audit.

If there are old accounts going back a few years and unaffected he could release these which applies to many of his companies.

Though AthenaAwakened has already pointed out that being audited does not interfere with one decided to make their tax returns public, I thought I'd make a few more points. Not only can they be released, but Nixon released his 1973 tax return while they were under audit (See: http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...op-nominees-1970s-have-released-their-tax-re/ ). I would expect that this is hardly the first time Trump has dealt with an IRS audit. Additionally, he probably has a tax attorney not just an accountant. There could easily be more than one person working it, and is most likely tied to his own LLC organization. You can pretty much assume that his team has all the records as they would have prepared them in the first place. Can anyone imagine Trump sitting at a desk parsing thru all the tax documentation and electronic forms?

The 'common practice' that is under discussion is presidential candidates that have won the primaries. And that 'common practice' is to release ones tax returns. Everyday Americans don't post their tax returns on the web or whatever, but that is irrelevant. In fact Warren Buffett, who is also under audit, has challenged Trump to release his records stating that he will join him in doing so. Tax audits are not really that big of a deal, and are mcuh more common for those with very complex tax records. My father was subjected to 2 audits, and lived to talk about them. He even did it w/o an accountant/attorney. But then, he also lived his life as a bank branch manager decades ago. He understood the game.

Keith summed it up well here, its the BS:

Maybe if he'd started with 'I'm a great businessman and it's not a sound business decision to reveal tax returns during an audit' and stuck with that....At least it would look better than this map-wandering excuse obstacle course...

 

[whichphilosophy]

And the purpose of that is to confuse and demonize, and to distort the truth of one's own actions. In other words, Donald Trump is a great scientologist. No wonder cultists love him so much. He also values appearances over honesty, and fears exposure.

He looked unhinged, sniffling, uncomfortable, unprepared, loud, unprofessional, amateurish, interrupting, bullying, unpresidential, rambling...

She looked poised, healthy, comfortable, prepared, appropriate, professional, clear, and very Presidential...

Looks may be deceiving especially if rehearsed, though political debates do have an entertainment value. Too bad about Libya where the fall out is still going on.

 

[Harry Bosch]

BTW: does anyone know what that big fat meanie Rosie O'Donnell said about Trump?

- - - Updated - - -

After all the interruptions and bluster and defensiveness, it's weird how quiet Trump was the whole time Hillary questioned his finances and refusal to release his tax returns.

If he is having his finances audited it means he cannot release the tax returns until that process is completed as I understand this is the process in the USA also for submitting a full set of accounts which has been checked by a certified accountant. The IRS I understand will also audit as small percentage of tax returns it receives. It's not clear if his accountant has these of the IRS does. I haven't seen the recording of the debate yet.

There is also nothing to prevent him releasing figures before such an audit is done, but it is common practice to wait until the tax authority has concluded its audit.

If there are old accounts going back a few years and unaffected he could release these which applies to many of his companies.

Uhhh, this is false. Please stop listening to Fox news, it isn't helping you.

 

[Angry Floof]

And the purpose of that is to confuse and demonize, and to distort the truth of one's own actions. In other words, Donald Trump is a great scientologist. No wonder cultists love him so much. He also values appearances over honesty, and fears exposure.

He looked unhinged, sniffling, uncomfortable, unprepared, loud, unprofessional, amateurish, interrupting, bullying, unpresidential, rambling...

She looked poised, healthy, comfortable, prepared, appropriate, professional, clear, and very Presidential...

Looks may be deceiving especially if rehearsed, though political debates do have an entertainment value. Too bad about Libya where the fall out is still going on.

:laughing-smiley-014

 

[Angry Floof]

After all the interruptions and bluster and defensiveness, it's weird how quiet Trump was the whole time Hillary questioned his finances and refusal to release his tax returns.

If he is having his finances audited it means he cannot release the tax returns until that process is completed as I understand this is the process in the USA also for submitting a full set of accounts which has been checked by a certified accountant. The IRS I understand will also audit as small percentage of tax returns it receives. It's not clear if his accountant has these of the IRS does. I haven't seen the recording of the debate yet.

There is also nothing to prevent him releasing figures before such an audit is done, but it is common practice to wait until the tax authority has concluded its audit.

If there are old accounts going back a few years and unaffected he could release these which applies to many of his companies.

Ah, the OT tap dancing superpowerz have returned. Truth doesn't matter; protect the fake PR image at all costs. Familiar pattern.

It's simply not true that there is anything at all preventing Trump from releasing his tax returns. The "If we pretend hard enough, our delusions will come true" only works on cult followers and Trump supporters.

 

[ElectEngr]

How long will it take for the effects of the debate to show up in the polls?...12 to 48 hours?

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[whichphilosophy]

If he is having his finances audited it means he cannot release the tax returns until that process is completed as I understand this is the process in the USA also for submitting a full set of accounts which has been checked by a certified accountant. The IRS I understand will also audit as small percentage of tax returns it receives. It's not clear if his accountant has these of the IRS does. I haven't seen the recording of the debate yet.

There is also nothing to prevent him releasing figures before such an audit is done, but it is common practice to wait until the tax authority has concluded its audit.

If there are old accounts going back a few years and unaffected he could release these which applies to many of his companies.

Ah, the OT tap dancing superpowerz have returned. Truth doesn't matter; protect the fake PR image at all costs. Familiar pattern.

It's simply not true that there is anything at all preventing Trump from releasing his tax returns. The "If we pretend hard enough, our delusions will come true" only works on cult followers and Trump supporters.

Until he does (eventually) we can only speculate. Maybe there are some skeletons in the cupboard, but we don't know at this point. The media speculated a lot about Obama's birth certificate but it was released there wasn't much to discuss after that.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Until he does (eventually) we can only speculate. Maybe there are some skeletons in the cupboard, but we don't know at this point. The media speculated a lot about Obama's birth certificate but it was released there wasn't much to discuss after that.

Wow. That's the most unintentionally hypocritical answer in history. So, because Trump got years worth of political news about speculating over one thing we hadn't seen, we should therefore not speculate over this other thing we haven't seen.