2028 Presidential Election

[Tigers!]

Never going to happen.

Well, not in the USA. The whole idea of the USA was to have a king who was reviewed every few years by a group of reliable men (the electoral college), and replaced if he wasn't doing the right thing. He could also be replaced between times if he pissed off enough senators and representatives.

This is a marked improvement on the "king for life, eldest son takes over" model, but it is hamstrung by the understandable belief at the time that somebody had to be in the role of king, doing kingy stuff like vetoing legislation and pardoning criminals.

Monarchy is a hereditary dictatorship, and dictators suck, but other models of governance are difficult to make work in a pre-industrial world, where communications are slow, and slowing things down still further by requiring discussion (which implies face to face meetings in the C18th) is just asking to be invaded and thrashed by your more nimble neighbours.

The world has changed, and distributed rule is less problematic - except for the perennial problem of how to crowbar power from the hands of the king (whether you call him King, President, First Secretary, Prime Minister, or something else).

The vast majority of us, who have zero desire to be king, need to be protected somehow from the small band of nutters, each of whom is certain that he is the only person up to the task. And they are nutters. No sane person wants to run a country.

You have exactly no understanding of the US.

How many of your own people have an understanding of the US?

 

[WAB]

Very few reasonable sentences have the phrase "your own people" in it...

I mean, I'm an American but I don't think of other Americans as 'my own people'.

 

[Tigers!]

Very few reasonable sentences have the phrase "your own people" in it...

I mean, I'm an American but I don't think of other Americans as 'my own people'.

That's why a foreigner can say it aloud.

 

[WAB]

Very few reasonable sentences have the phrase "your own people" in it...

I mean, I'm an American but I don't think of other Americans as 'my own people'.

That's why a foreigner can say it aloud.

You lost me.

 

[Toni]

Never going to happen.

Well, not in the USA. The whole idea of the USA was to have a king who was reviewed every few years by a group of reliable men (the electoral college), and replaced if he wasn't doing the right thing. He could also be replaced between times if he pissed off enough senators and representatives.

This is a marked improvement on the "king for life, eldest son takes over" model, but it is hamstrung by the understandable belief at the time that somebody had to be in the role of king, doing kingy stuff like vetoing legislation and pardoning criminals.

Monarchy is a hereditary dictatorship, and dictators suck, but other models of governance are difficult to make work in a pre-industrial world, where communications are slow, and slowing things down still further by requiring discussion (which implies face to face meetings in the C18th) is just asking to be invaded and thrashed by your more nimble neighbours.

The world has changed, and distributed rule is less problematic - except for the perennial problem of how to crowbar power from the hands of the king (whether you call him King, President, First Secretary, Prime Minister, or something else).

The vast majority of us, who have zero desire to be king, need to be protected somehow from the small band of nutters, each of whom is certain that he is the only person up to the task. And they are nutters. No sane person wants to run a country.

You have exactly no understanding of the US.

How many of your own people have an understanding of the US?

I do. I’m here. I do not spend any time maligning or telling falsehoods about Australia nor do I pretend to understand its history or its people, despite having friends who are Australian. I know enough not to believe film or press. I know that as an outsider that I cannot completely nor fully understand Australia. But I do not malign the nation, nor the people nor pretend to wisdom and understanding I I do not possess.

But you do you.

 

[Elixir]

The whole idea of the USA was to have a king who was reviewed every few years by a group of reliable men (the electoral college), and replaced if he wasn't doing the right thing.

That’s incorrect. The executive branch was intentionally described in Article 2, while the legislature’s supremacy was indicated by its Article 1 empowerment, and reinforced as such by lack of term limits.

The boss of the executive branch was constitutionally limited to two four year terms even if nobody wanted them removed.
The judicial branch (now fully perverted) was supposed to referee disputes between the executive and legislative branches over constitutional interpretations.

 

[bilby]

I know that as an outsider that I cannot completely nor fully understand Australia. But I do not malign the nation

Well, obviously. 'Cos we're grouse. Like the US, but with better surfing and healthcare and shit.

I find it amusing that whenever I talk about the US, you get defensive by mentioning how you don't talk about Australia - when my entire thesis is that blind patriotism is absurd, and that USAians are particularly blind in that regard.

You can bag Australia as much as you like. It's far from perfect. And I am far from patriotic - indeed, I am convinced that patriotism is evil. And your knee-jerk patriotism in response to any criticism of the USA does nothing to suggest that I am wrong.

You seem to be personally hurt by my saying mean stuff about America, which wouldn't be possible if you were not hamstrung by patriotism; And worse, you seem to genuinely believe that if you said mean stuff about Australia, I would be hurt, or offended, or upset.

I wouldn't. I choose to live here, but am under no illusions that anything about our nation is superlative, or that our history and politics are defensible, much less unchallengable.

An outsider's perspective is always valuable. And it's never needful to be an insider in order to understand anything.

 

[bilby]

The whole idea of the USA was to have a king who was reviewed every few years by a group of reliable men (the electoral college), and replaced if he wasn't doing the right thing.

That’s incorrect. The executive branch was intentionally described in Article 2, while the legislature’s supremacy was indicated by its Article 1 empowerment, and reinforced as such by lack of term limits.

Oh, FFS. That's exactly the model that existed in the UK at the time.

The problem here is not that I am wrong, but that Americans have zero clue what a king IS. The king of England is entirely subordinate to his legislature, and has been since 1649, when the legislature impeached King Charles I with a fucking axe to the back of his neck.

The boss of the executive branch was constitutionally limited to two four year terms even if nobody wanted them removed.

Nope. That's only been a thing since 1951, with the ratification of the 22nd Amendment. So not a part of the "whole idea" at all.

The judicial branch (now fully perverted) was supposed to referee disputes between the executive and legislative branches over constitutional interpretations.

Yup. Y'all should have had the appointment of judges as a function of the parliament, rather than of the king. But you gave your king too many powers, probably because not calling him "king" lulled you into a false sense of security.

 

[Patooka]

but I'm not sure he'd be such a good choice, although one of my dogs would be a better choice compared to the mentally disturbed person we have in office now

Of course Newsom is a stinker of a choice.

The fucker is as limp as Schumer in his own way.

WTF are you talking about? Schumer was the first Senate Majority leader to get two reconciliation bills passed in the Senate. Without Schumer, Biden would have signed virtually nothing.

I think you missed the part where Schumer rolled over on the shutdown and let the GOP win literally everything they asked for in exchange for a fucking pinky promise.

Schumer does not know how to play hardball, and it shows.

What would that have looked like?

The Dem version of The Tea Party? This is from the outside looking in, but if the dems don't flood the mid terms with "No kings" candidates, they're missing a Golden opportunity.

 

[pood]

The boss of the executive branch was constitutionally limited to two four year terms even if nobody wanted them removed.

As @bilby noted, the two-term limit thing did not become a constitutional thing until 1951.

However, it became a tradition, established by George Washington, not to seek more than two terms. But some tried to upend the tradition, notably U.S. Grant and Teddy Roosevelt. It was not actually upended until FDR was elected four times, demonstrating that there was no constitutional limit (until 1951) on how often a president could be elected.

 

[Politesse]

but I'm not sure he'd be such a good choice, although one of my dogs would be a better choice compared to the mentally disturbed person we have in office now

Of course Newsom is a stinker of a choice.

The fucker is as limp as Schumer in his own way.

WTF are you talking about? Schumer was the first Senate Majority leader to get two reconciliation bills passed in the Senate. Without Schumer, Biden would have signed virtually nothing.

I think you missed the part where Schumer rolled over on the shutdown and let the GOP win literally everything they asked for in exchange for a fucking pinky promise.

Schumer does not know how to play hardball, and it shows.

What would that have looked like?

The Dem version of The Tea Party? This is from the outside looking in, but if the dems don't flood the mid terms with "No kings" candidates, they're missing a Golden opportunity.

An opportunity to do what? The Democrats don't want a flood of Progressives in their caucus.

 

[Elixir]

The problem here is not that I am wrong, but that Americans have zero clue what a king IS

I agree. England has long since relegated “kings” to symbolic status only. But that’s new. Back in the day a king was the power, and as a literary form such as in “NO KINGS!” it remains so.

That's only been a thing since 1951, with the ratification of the 22nd Amendment. So not a part of the "whole idea" at all.

Nope. G Washington set the tone and the 2 term limit TRADITION remained effective until WWII after which it was thought “we better make it official” due to the Roosevelt exception.

Y'all should have had the appointment of judges as a function of the parliament, rather than of the king.

Actually the king can only nominate, and the parliament has had the power to accept or reject it (until the king threatened the parliament with being kicked out by the awesome power of his cult following).

 

[Patooka]

An opportunity to do what? The Democrats don't want a flood of Progressives in their caucus.

Shut up, piggy.

 

[Politesse]

An opportunity to do what? The Democrats don't want a flood of Progressives in their caucus.

Shut up, piggy.

??

 

[unapologetic]

If necessary expand the court.

Dangerous presidence.
Becomes a tug-of-war, like 'redistricing'. Every time the power in congress changes party, they'll want to add justices.

An opportunity to do what? The Democrats don't want a flood of Progressives in their caucus.

Better than leaving the repugs in power.

 

[Elixir]

Dangerous presidence.

Not a precedent.
In total, Congress has changed the Court’s size seven times: it was set at 6, reduced to 5, then 6 again, then 7, 9, 10, reduced to 7, and finally brought up to 9 in 1869. So it has been a while. Seems like it’s overdue, but would not be a novelty.

 

[WAB]

An opportunity to do what? The Democrats don't want a flood of Progressives in their caucus.

Shut up, piggy.

??

Yeah really. Fuckin' Australians...

 

[Derec]

An opportunity to do what? The Democrats don't want a flood of Progressives in their caucus.

Shut up, piggy.

??

Patooka is "not a Trumpsucker", but he does like Trumpian insults.

 

[Patooka]

An opportunity to do what? The Democrats don't want a flood of Progressives in their caucus.

Shut up, piggy.

??

Patooka is "not a Trumpsucker", but he does like Trumpian insults.

I recognise Trump's popularity with his base. My point, which I admit was pretty hamfisted, was that that sort of appeal to a base is very much required for the mid terms. I can very much see Democrats stomp on the "flood of progressives" when what they should be doing is embrace them into their fold. Trump inspires his base (I'll never understand how or why but like gravity, I understand that is real). He's not a good speaker, he's an idiot and yet the closets thing Dems have as a leader is Schumer. Which the base ridicules. It's not a good look and I honestly believe that the "blue wave" everyone is taking for granted is not going to happen and apathy will once again win out.

Normally, I wouldn't care. I would just watch from the sidelines, see the talking points right wing cunts say and expect right wing cunts in my place to parrot the same. This is different. Trump is a colossal fuckup he made me nostalgic for Bush jnr. Twice, And there is a deep desire amongst US citizens to curb his stupidity. There is also a political and media apparatus ready and willing to excuse and justify every part of his idiocy. The Democrats should be tapping into the former and they really aren't. And that's whats baffling.

 

[Elixir]

Trump inspires his base (I'll never understand how or why but like gravity, I understand that is real). He's not a good speaker, he's an idiot and yet the closets thing Dems have as a leader is Schumer

Have you learned NOTHING?
Schumer is a gnarled little troll who would have a hard time getting elected dog catcher in a red County.
The closest thing to Trump on the left is Newsom; “straight out of central casting” is what Americans want, even if it’s a stupid racist rapist and convicted criminal fraud, QED.
If they are a decent speaker who can form full sentences using a 9th grade or better vocabulary, they’ll beat ANY mega-genius or woman cursed with an ordinary appearance, regardless of their evil intent, criminal history or manifest corruption.

Even Swiz is at least dimly aware of this dynamic (which is why he is freaked out by Newsom).