6/27/24 presidential debate

[thebeave]

If you just read a transcript of the debate and not seen any of it, who do you think would win?

Even in the transcript, Biden's poor performance would shine through, sadly.
Take his abortion meander:

He turned from a topic that is beneficial to him - abortion - to one that is not - illegal immigration, for no conceivable reason.

Even if he attempted the Grandpa Simpson gambit, he did not execute it well.

The Simpsons producers ought to buy the rights for Joe Biden 's Cornpop, hairy legs and "Hey, Esther!" speech at the pool, and use it for a Grandpa Simpson speech. The Simpsons would get a little boost in ratings and Joe would get some nice royalty payments for years to come. A win-win for everyone.

 

[Derec]

Painfully plausible, despite his reputation as "fightin' Joe". Then again, I think the more likely case is that he simply could not read the room, and had no idea that more than half of Americans would become uncomfortable with Netanyahu's retributive genocide as quickly as they did.

There is no "retributive genocide" despite what pro-Hamas protesters like these are claiming.
Pro-Palestinian protesters outside Biden NYC fundraiser hurl smoke bombs, clash with cops
37 of these creeps were taken into custody, but what use is that since Alvin Bragg will most likely refuse to prosecute like he did with the creeps who occupied Hamilton Hall at Columbia University.

He thought 8/7 would be his 9/11, an opportunity to lead the charge from a safe distance into a glorious (and bipartisanly popular) war of satisfying revenge against a lightly armed foe, and since this time Israel was providing all the troops, all he'd have to do is sign some phony checks.

You mean 10/7? And it should be seen as Israel's 9/11. In fact, relative to population size, far more Israelis were murdered on 10/7 than Americans on 9/11.
Also, Hamas is definitely not "lightly armed" and Hezbollah is even more heavily armed. Both are subsidiaries of the IRCG and the theocratic regime in Tehran which is fixing to get the nuclear bomb.

Only that diaspora lives in the states he needs to swing, and young people don't watch hour long news reports any more, they watch sequential selections of 2-3 minute news clips and blurbs of opinion, cooked up by a Chinese algorithm.

It was a mistake to allow so many Arabs and Muslims to immigrate. They are the 5th Column - an enemy within. See the Dearborn Muslims praise terrorism and chant "death to America".

If Biden needs to win these people over, he has already lost.

Biden doesn't pivot when the temperature changes. Can't pivot, it's more of a slow wobble. And he doesn't understand the way the media has changed in the last twenty years.

He needs to pivot in the other direction. End all restrictions on export of weapons to Israel. Intensify attacks on Houthis - targeting drones is not nearly sufficient. Houthi forces and leadership should be targeted too. US should also help Israel with Hezbollah. Nasrallah is much less likely to keep attacking Israel from the North if there is a credible threat of a direct US attack on his Shiite ass.

He doesn't understand that unlike CNN, Tiktok and Discord don't take polite requests from Obama as law.

No, they talke requests by Xi Jinping as law. And thus they spread propaganda. That does not mean that Biden should "pivot" to the pro-Hamas line TikTok is peddling.

 

[Derec]

Polls show debate did not hurt Biden.

Polls? That is one poll. The polling average has swung away from Biden, according to 538.

 

[Derec]

I don't understand how he performed so poorly (and looked like hell) last night but looks and acts healthy and fully capable today.

He did sound much better and far more energetic in NC.
It was probably a combination of several issues, including the cold (did he take some cold medicine?), and maybe he was jacked up on Mountain Dew in NC and that's why he was able to come at Trump like a spider monkey.
But mostly I think it's easier to give a speech with a teleprompter than do a debate off the cuff. And the time of day matters too - the debate was 9-10:30, while he was speaking in NC mid-day. The debate was probably past Biden's bedtime.

But to perform so well shows the fears he's gone feeble and demented are false. And anyway, if he gets elected then dies then Harris takes over, that's good too (especially if she's prone to progressive's manipulations like some suggest ).

I do not think she would be susceptible to manipulations from Bernie Sandersman the White and Alexandria Wormtongue Cortez as Joe "Theoden" Biden is.
But she did swing far left in the 2020 primaries - on race, on M4All, on fracking and offshore drilling. I think that was a tactical move (and a tactical blunder given that Bernie and Warren already owned the far left lane). There was more than just a whiff of cynicism in that tactic, and I think that there is no way to tell how she would actually govern.

But of course, that would just mean she was constantly at odds with the houses of Congress... It's funny how conservatives genuinely believe that one of the most painfully impotent factions in the Legislative branch is secretly ruling it, just because politicians occasionally make campaign promises they have no intention of following up on.

The problem is that Biden tried to follow up on promises he did not even make. That $3.5T non-infrastructure spending bill was Bernie's idea - not Biden's. Wealth taxes were something Bernie and Liawatha were peddling - now Joe seems to support it.

 

[Politesse]

I don't understand how he performed so poorly (and looked like hell) last night but looks and acts healthy and fully capable today.

He did sound much better and far more energetic in NC.
It was probably a combination of several issues, including the cold (did he take some cold medicine?), and maybe he was jacked up on Mountain Dew in NC and that's why he was able to come at Trump like a spider monkey.
But mostly I think it's easier to give a speech with a teleprompter than do a debate off the cuff. And the time of day matters too - the debate was 9-10:30, while he was speaking in NC mid-day. The debate was probably past Biden's bedtime.

But to perform so well shows the fears he's gone feeble and demented are false. And anyway, if he gets elected then dies then Harris takes over, that's good too (especially if she's prone to progressive's manipulations like some suggest ).

I do not think she would be susceptible to manipulations from Bernie Sandersman the White and Alexandria Wormtongue Cortez as Joe "Theoden" Biden is.
But she did swing far left in the 2020 primaries - on race, on M4All, on fracking and offshore drilling. I think that was a tactical move (and a tactical blunder given that Bernie and Warren already owned the far left lane). There was more than just a whiff of cynicism in that tactic, and I think that there is no way to tell how she would actually govern.

But of course, that would just mean she was constantly at odds with the houses of Congress... It's funny how conservatives genuinely believe that one of the most painfully impotent factions in the Legislative branch is secretly ruling it, just because politicians occasionally make campaign promises they have no intention of following up on.

The problem is that Biden tried to follow up on promises he did not even make. That $3.5T non-infrastructure spending bill was Bernie's idea - not Biden's. Wealth taxes were something Bernie and Liawatha were peddling - now Joe seems to support it.

Then may I suggest he "remember" the Green New Deal for Round 2.

 

[Derec]

Then may I suggest he "remember" the Green New Deal for Round 2.

No way. It's a poorly conceived AOC brainfart. It has unrealistic timelines and is loaded up with tofu like federal job guarantees.
Bad enough that Biden adopted her cockamamie Climate Paramilitaries. Another instance of "fulfilling somebody else's promises".

White House swears in first class of American Climate Corps

 

[Swammerdami]

If I were one of the guys in the apocryphal smoke-filled room or a WH insider, I would be VERY circumspect with my opinions. But I'm just a guy at a small message-board, and even here few if any heed my opinions. I can write what I want, what I truly feel.

Those pretending Biden held his own in the debate are deluded. Sure, if we untangle some of his word salad and correct a large number of "brain farts", Biden would win on honesty and issues. But the debate was NOT for people focused on issues. Most informed (or informable) voters have known for months or years who they'll be voting for (if they vote at all). The debate was for citizens who know nothing but a few Facebook memes, and watched for tone and presentation, not content. Trump won that debate in spades.

As I tried to explain to one of our Ignorati, insiders know MUCH MUCH more than us. When we watch Biden in a photo-op we can't make a psychological evaluation; all we can be sure of is that many clips and comments aired on TV are just lies from the Koch-Putin-Trump bullshit machine. But insiders know. Was the late hour part of Biden's problem? Should the Ds have agreed to and insisted on drug tests? I dunno, but insiders should have known. Shame on them!

Biden had four priorities: Attack the liar; Attack the cheater; Attack the criminal; Attack the man bent on fascist take-over. Instead we get a pathetic nothing-burger. Claire McCaskill -- certainly much more of an "insider" than I am -- was "heartbroken." The Ds must act quickly to salvage this election.

["Black jobs"] is actually a very revealing habit of speech.

Not to mention the WAY too transparent attempt to set two minorities against one another to his benefit. But that's Trump, he's always saying the quiet part out loud, that's why his people love him.

My head snapped up away from my phone where I was reading an online chat of the debate when Trump made that remark.

I do not understand why more wasn't made of this comment made during the debate.

If the Democrat on the stage had a quick mind and was focused on attack, that slip by Trump could have cost him the debate. Instead ... heart-break.

And -- let me remind us again -- all the "Monday quarter-backing" and pundit goo we hear now is IRRELEVANT. What matters are the demeanors and oration skills that were visible on that stage.

Polymarket now shows Trump at 64%, Biden at 16%, other Ds sum to 21%, RFK Jr. at 1½%. Other Ds in order of Likelihood (acc. Polymarket) are Other, Obama, Harris, Newsom. That's right, "Other" (i.e. Dark Horse) is ahead of Newsom and the two popular women.

- - - - - - - - - -

A Dark Horse!! ?? Just for fun we can speculate here at IIDB. I've already thrown Gretchen Whitmer's hat into the ring many months ago.

 

[barbos]

LOL, resting 25th amendment face:

 

[Person19960]

If you thought the 2024 Presidential Debate was bad,

.
.
.
... just wait for the Swimsuit Competition!

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

If I were one of the guys in the apocryphal smoke-filled room or a WH insider, I would be VERY circumspect with my opinions. But I'm just a guy at a small message-board, and even here few if any heed my opinions. I can write what I want, what I truly feel.

Those pretending Biden held his own in the debate are deluded. Sure, if we untangle some of his word salad and correct a large number of "brain farts", Biden would win on honesty and issues. But the debate was NOT for people focused on issues. Most informed (or informable) voters have known for months or years who they'll be voting for (if they vote at all). The debate was for citizens who know nothing but a few Facebook memes, and watched for tone and presentation, not content. Trump won that debate in spades.

As I tried to explain to one of our Ignorati, insiders know MUCH MUCH more than us. When we watch Biden in a photo-op we can't make a psychological evaluation; all we can be sure of is that many clips and comments aired on TV are just lies from the Koch-Putin-Trump bullshit machine. But insiders know. Was the late hour part of Biden's problem? Should the Ds have agreed to and insisted on drug tests? I dunno, but insiders should have known. Shame on them!

Biden had four priorities: Attack the liar; Attack the cheater; Attack the criminal; Attack the man bent on fascist take-over. Instead we get a pathetic nothing-burger. Claire McCaskill -- certainly much more of an "insider" than I am -- was "heartbroken." The Ds must act quickly to salvage this election.

["Black jobs"] is actually a very revealing habit of speech.

Not to mention the WAY too transparent attempt to set two minorities against one another to his benefit. But that's Trump, he's always saying the quiet part out loud, that's why his people love him.

My head snapped up away from my phone where I was reading an online chat of the debate when Trump made that remark.

I do not understand why more wasn't made of this comment made during the debate.

If the Democrat on the stage had a quick mind and was focused on attack, that slip by Trump could have cost him the debate. Instead ... heart-break.

And -- let me remind us again -- all the "Monday quarter-backing" and pundit goo we hear now is IRRELEVANT. What matters are the demeanors and oration skills that were visible on that stage.

Polymarket now shows Trump at 64%, Biden at 16%, other Ds sum to 21%, RFK Jr. at 1½%. Other Ds in order of Likelihood (acc. Polymarket) are Other, Obama, Harris, Newsom. That's right, "Other" (i.e. Dark Horse) is ahead of Newsom and the two popular women.

- - - - - - - - - -

A Dark Horse!! ?? Just for fun we can speculate here at IIDB. I've already thrown Gretchen Whitmer's hat into the ring many months ago.

Trump did not win the debate. There was no winner. It barely qualifies to be even called a debate. Insiders do not know more, their knowledge is specialized. The debates are of little importance. No matter how well Biden performed, he wouldn't gain a single Trumpist vote. Democratic voters will still not vote for Trump. The only votes that could be affected are those of a small number of independents, and they won't simply be looking at performance but at what was displayed, and that is that Trump continued to spout lies and didn't answer questions, and that will be what is most noticeable from the debate for them.

Polls are not important, can change on a daily basis as new things occur. If anything of importance can be learned from this debate (though also clear even before this debate), it is that much mainstream media, either through reporting poorly or deliberately not reporting are displaying a pro-Trump attitude. For many months they have not been covering all Trump's gaffes and horrible points, while leaping on any chance to badmouth President Biden. That is what needs to be addressed, not one debate.

 

[barbos]

... just wait for the Swimsuit Competition!

What? Nancy Pelosi is participating in it?

 

[barbos]

If I were one of the guys in the apocryphal smoke-filled room or a WH insider, I would be VERY circumspect with my opinions. But I'm just a guy at a small message-board, and even here few if any heed my opinions. I can write what I want, what I truly feel.

Those pretending Biden held his own in the debate are deluded. Sure, if we untangle some of his word salad and correct a large number of "brain farts", Biden would win on honesty and issues. But the debate was NOT for people focused on issues. Most informed (or informable) voters have known for months or years who they'll be voting for (if they vote at all). The debate was for citizens who know nothing but a few Facebook memes, and watched for tone and presentation, not content. Trump won that debate in spades.

As I tried to explain to one of our Ignorati, insiders know MUCH MUCH more than us. When we watch Biden in a photo-op we can't make a psychological evaluation; all we can be sure of is that many clips and comments aired on TV are just lies from the Koch-Putin-Trump bullshit machine. But insiders know. Was the late hour part of Biden's problem? Should the Ds have agreed to and insisted on drug tests? I dunno, but insiders should have known. Shame on them!

Biden had four priorities: Attack the liar; Attack the cheater; Attack the criminal; Attack the man bent on fascist take-over. Instead we get a pathetic nothing-burger. Claire McCaskill -- certainly much more of an "insider" than I am -- was "heartbroken." The Ds must act quickly to salvage this election.

["Black jobs"] is actually a very revealing habit of speech.

Not to mention the WAY too transparent attempt to set two minorities against one another to his benefit. But that's Trump, he's always saying the quiet part out loud, that's why his people love him.

My head snapped up away from my phone where I was reading an online chat of the debate when Trump made that remark.

I do not understand why more wasn't made of this comment made during the debate.

If the Democrat on the stage had a quick mind and was focused on attack, that slip by Trump could have cost him the debate. Instead ... heart-break.

And -- let me remind us again -- all the "Monday quarter-backing" and pundit goo we hear now is IRRELEVANT. What matters are the demeanors and oration skills that were visible on that stage.

Polymarket now shows Trump at 64%, Biden at 16%, other Ds sum to 21%, RFK Jr. at 1½%. Other Ds in order of Likelihood (acc. Polymarket) are Other, Obama, Harris, Newsom. That's right, "Other" (i.e. Dark Horse) is ahead of Newsom and the two popular women.

- - - - - - - - - -

A Dark Horse!! ?? Just for fun we can speculate here at IIDB. I've already thrown Gretchen Whitmer's hat into the ring many months ago.

Trump did not win the debate. There was no winner. It barely qualifies to be even called a debate. Insiders do not know more, their knowledge is specialized. The debates are of little importance. No matter how well Biden performed, he wouldn't gain a single Trumpist vote. Democratic voters will still not vote for Trump. The only votes that could be affected are those of a small number of independents, and they won't simply be looking at performance but at what was displayed, and that is that Trump continued to spout lies and didn't answer questions, and that will be what is most noticeable from the debate for them.

Polls are not important, can change on a daily basis as new things occur. If anything of importance can be learned from this debate (though also clear even before this debate), it is that much mainstream media, either through reporting poorly or deliberately not reporting are displaying a pro-Trump attitude. For many months they have not been covering all Trump's gaffes and horrible points, while leaping on any chance to badmouth President Biden. That is what needs to be addressed, not one debate.

Yes, democracy became a joke with these two.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If you thought the 2024 Presidential Debate was bad,

.
.
.
... just wait for the Swimsuit Competition!

People are saying Trump has the best bikini body. There's never been a better bikini body. Everyone has always said, "Wow, I'd like to see that guy in a bikini." No one in the history of bikinis can wear a bikini like Trump. He's going to give everyone what they've always wanted because everyone agrees Trump belongs in a bikini.

 

[thebeave]

This was pretty pathetic. Jill Biden pandering to her husband after the debate about how good he was and answered all the questions. Like he's a five year old kid. And, Joe's standing there all smiling and proud, thinking "I'm a big boy today!".

I assume you've never experienced the joy of having a supportive wife. That's too bad.

A supportive wife shouldn't be there just to rubber stamp everything her husband says and does. Sometimes the most supportive thing a wife can do for her husband is just give him the "straight dope". Jill knows his cognitive deficits better than anyone else around, yet she has ignored them and continued to push him for a second term, and has tried to convince the rest of the world that there is "nothing to see here, move along" when its been obvious to anyone he has had cognitive issues for some time now. She should have persuaded him a year ago to just be a one term POTUS (no shame in that), and the two of them could enjoy a nice quiet retirement, while someone younger and more mentally fit could run. Instead Joe has now become the laughing stock of the country (and world), and even his longstanding Democrat allies are turning their back on him. Not to mention that Joe's running almost guarantees a Trump victory in November. Perhaps a landslide. And even if Biden were to win, its highly likely that at some point in the next 4 years they would have to relieve him of his duties under the 25th amendment, or he would resign due to incompetence. Which will further tarnish his presidential legacy in the history books.

Its kind of amusing also that Jill tells two whopper lies about how great Joe did (not!) and how he answered all the questions (not!), then berates Trump for being a liar. Doctor heal thyself!

But nice try with the insult. Didn't work.

 

[ZiprHead]

A Dark Horse!! ?? Just for fun we can speculate here at IIDB. I've already thrown Gretchen Whitmer's hat into the ring many months ago.

Having lived in Michigan under Whitmer I can say she would make a fine president.

 

[Toni]

Ii agree that too often we think of people whose work involves cleaning up other people’s messes as ‘less than.’

My honest reaction to the words black job uttered by Trump was What the actual fuck??? Followed by racist pig.

Every time since I’ve read the works together black job, I think WTAF is that supposed to mean?????

This was pretty pathetic. Jill Biden pandering to her husband after the debate about how good he was and answered all the questions. Like he's a five year old kid. And, Joe's standing there all smiling and proud, thinking "I'm a big boy today!".

I assume you've never experienced the joy of having a supportive wife. That's too bad.

A supportive wife shouldn't be there just to rubber stamp everything her husband says and does. Sometimes the most supportive thing a wife can do for her husband is just give him the "straight dope". Jill knows his cognitive deficits better than anyone else around, yet she has ignored them and continued to push him for a second term, and has tried to convince the rest of the world that there is "nothing to see here, move along" when its been obvious to anyone he has had cognitive issues for some time now. She should have persuaded him a year ago to just be a one term POTUS (no shame in that), and the two of them could enjoy a nice quiet retirement, while someone younger and more mentally fit could run. Instead Joe has now become the laughing stock of the country (and world), and even his longstanding Democrat allies are turning their back on him. Not to mention that Joe's running almost guarantees a Trump victory in November. Perhaps a landslide. And even if Biden were to win, its highly likely that at some point in the next 4 years they would have to relieve him of his duties under the 25th amendment, or he would resign due to incompetence. Which will further tarnish his presidential legacy in the history books.

Its kind of amusing also that Jill tells two whopper lies about how great Joe did (not!) and how he answered all the questions (not!), then berates Trump for being a liar. Doctor heal thyself!

But nice try with the insult. Didn't work.

A good spouse is supportive in public and keeps any critique to themselves for private moments.

 

[Toni]

... just wait for the Swimsuit Competition!

What? Nancy Pelosi is participating in it?

Ah, the sexism!

 

[Toni]

If I were one of the guys in the apocryphal smoke-filled room or a WH insider, I would be VERY circumspect with my opinions. But I'm just a guy at a small message-board, and even here few if any heed my opinions. I can write what I want, what I truly feel.

Those pretending Biden held his own in the debate are deluded. Sure, if we untangle some of his word salad and correct a large number of "brain farts", Biden would win on honesty and issues. But the debate was NOT for people focused on issues. Most informed (or informable) voters have known for months or years who they'll be voting for (if they vote at all). The debate was for citizens who know nothing but a few Facebook memes, and watched for tone and presentation, not content. Trump won that debate in spades.

As I tried to explain to one of our Ignorati, insiders know MUCH MUCH more than us. When we watch Biden in a photo-op we can't make a psychological evaluation; all we can be sure of is that many clips and comments aired on TV are just lies from the Koch-Putin-Trump bullshit machine. But insiders know. Was the late hour part of Biden's problem? Should the Ds have agreed to and insisted on drug tests? I dunno, but insiders should have known. Shame on them!

Biden had four priorities: Attack the liar; Attack the cheater; Attack the criminal; Attack the man bent on fascist take-over. Instead we get a pathetic nothing-burger. Claire McCaskill -- certainly much more of an "insider" than I am -- was "heartbroken." The Ds must act quickly to salvage this election.

["Black jobs"] is actually a very revealing habit of speech.

Not to mention the WAY too transparent attempt to set two minorities against one another to his benefit. But that's Trump, he's always saying the quiet part out loud, that's why his people love him.

My head snapped up away from my phone where I was reading an online chat of the debate when Trump made that remark.

I do not understand why more wasn't made of this comment made during the debate.

If the Democrat on the stage had a quick mind and was focused on attack, that slip by Trump could have cost him the debate. Instead ... heart-break.

And -- let me remind us again -- all the "Monday quarter-backing" and pundit goo we hear now is IRRELEVANT. What matters are the demeanors and oration skills that were visible on that stage.

Polymarket now shows Trump at 64%, Biden at 16%, other Ds sum to 21%, RFK Jr. at 1½%. Other Ds in order of Likelihood (acc. Polymarket) are Other, Obama, Harris, Newsom. That's right, "Other" (i.e. Dark Horse) is ahead of Newsom and the two popular women.

- - - - - - - - - -

A Dark Horse!! ?? Just for fun we can speculate here at IIDB. I've already thrown Gretchen Whitmer's hat into the ring many months ago.

Trump did not win the debate. There was no winner. It barely qualifies to be even called a debate. Insiders do not know more, their knowledge is specialized. The debates are of little importance. No matter how well Biden performed, he wouldn't gain a single Trumpist vote. Democratic voters will still not vote for Trump. The only votes that could be affected are those of a small number of independents, and they won't simply be looking at performance but at what was displayed, and that is that Trump continued to spout lies and didn't answer questions, and that will be what is most noticeable from the debate for them.

Polls are not important, can change on a daily basis as new things occur. If anything of importance can be learned from this debate (though also clear even before this debate), it is that much mainstream media, either through reporting poorly or deliberately not reporting are displaying a pro-Trump attitude. For many months they have not been covering all Trump's gaffes and horrible points, while leaping on any chance to badmouth President Biden. That is what needs to be addressed, not one debate.

Yes, democracy became a joke with these two.

No, polls and debates are jokes.

As for 'winning' debates, in 2016, Clinton very clearly and very soundly beat Trump. It was not even close. Where I did think that she missed an opportunity was when Trump was stalking her around the stage, she should have asked the moderators for a brief pause because Donald seemed to need to find the gentleman's room. Of course, she would have been pilloried for that, particularly by those who cannot bear the thought of a man's behavior or weaknesses being pointed out in public, especially by a woman.

 

[barbos]

No, polls and debates are jokes.

One does not contradict the other.

 

[Person19960]

As for 'winning' debates, in 2016, Clinton very clearly and very soundly beat Trump. It was not even close. Where I did think that she missed an opportunity was when Trump was stalking her around the stage, she should have asked the moderators for a brief pause because Donald seemed to need to find the gentleman's room. Of course, she would have been pilloried for that, particularly by those who cannot bear the thought of a man's behavior or weaknesses being pointed out in public, especially by a woman.

omg I remember Trump hulking out and chasing Hillary all over that 2016 debate stage! There was a meme about the chair; it was Hillary with mic asking "Is he humping the chair again?" ... oh here's a video.




But wait... Trump was snorting his meds or cocaine at the time. Let me see if I can find my old description.