American schools to punish children for walkout protests

[RavenSky]

It's quite amazing the push back your getting stating (correctly) that the government must be neutral. Lots of fascists/communists in this thread.

You're right. common sense has nothing to do with it. Only a fascist would use common sense. It seems that the only counter arguments to this demonstration are either Alex Jones type arguments (they're actors, the movement is hijacked by crypto/proto/neo/fucko deep statist) or what if (what if this was about broccoli or the cancellation of Firefly etc). The best response to such assertions is:

If fascist and communist are the only ones using a bit of common sense in this scenario, I'm with the communists and fascists.

Dude, the cancellation of Firefly would have been WELL worth protesting!!!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

“We don’t want to be in a massacre” is not a viewpoint. It is a reasonable expectation.

 

[Trausti]

“We don’t want to be in a massacre” is not a viewpoint. It is a reasonable expectation.

Who gets do decide that? What if the decider doesn't decide the way you'd want them to? Perhaps the decider shouldn't have the power to decide at all?

 

[braces_for_impact]

This is the silliest of slippery slope arguments. There is a huge difference between a walkout organized by the kids over a period of time in response to recent events and...broccoli for lunch or a difficult test. If you want to be taken seriously, perhaps you should try harder to be a little less absurd.

The difference between Parkland and other schools is that Parkland students were actually taught civics. I think students should comprehensively be taught civics, especially if the end result is a more involved electorate. I think as adults, we should strive to listen to children, especially when they fear for their own safety or are involved because the topics they're protesting actually involve them. I'm confident that as adults, we could come to a common-sense solution that involves the occasional civic action and encourages civil duty while still allowing for a proper education. Of course, the right will be automatically suspicious of this, because greater involvement could mean more voters, and generally speaking more voters is bad for the right. Also, often the right is suspicious of public education to begin with, so not only may this result in more voters, but they would also tend to be better informed, so I can see why they would fight such a move.

 

[dismal]

This is the silliest of slippery slope arguments. There is a huge difference between a walkout organized by the kids over a period of time in response to recent events and...broccoli for lunch or a difficult test. If you want to be taken seriously, perhaps you should try harder to be a little less absurd.

The difference between Parkland and other schools is that Parkland students were actually taught civics. I think students should comprehensively be taught civics, especially if the end result is a more involved electorate. I think as adults, we should strive to listen to children, especially when they fear for their own safety or are involved because the topics they're protesting actually involve them. I'm confident that as adults, we could come to a common-sense solution that involves the occasional civic action and encourages civil duty while still allowing for a proper education. Of course, the right will be automatically suspicious of this, because greater involvement could mean more voters, and generally speaking more voters is bad for the right. Also, often the right is suspicious of public education to begin with, so not only may this result in more voters, but they would also tend to be better informed, so I can see why they would fight such a move.

It's not a slippery slope at all. The government may not engage in viewpoint discrimination. It's established law. Whatever policies a government entity has with respect to protests must be viewpoint neutral.

 

[braces_for_impact]

This is the silliest of slippery slope arguments. There is a huge difference between a walkout organized by the kids over a period of time in response to recent events and...broccoli for lunch or a difficult test. If you want to be taken seriously, perhaps you should try harder to be a little less absurd.

The difference between Parkland and other schools is that Parkland students were actually taught civics. I think students should comprehensively be taught civics, especially if the end result is a more involved electorate. I think as adults, we should strive to listen to children, especially when they fear for their own safety or are involved because the topics they're protesting actually involve them. I'm confident that as adults, we could come to a common-sense solution that involves the occasional civic action and encourages civil duty while still allowing for a proper education. Of course, the right will be automatically suspicious of this, because greater involvement could mean more voters, and generally speaking more voters is bad for the right. Also, often the right is suspicious of public education to begin with, so not only may this result in more voters, but they would also tend to be better informed, so I can see why they would fight such a move.

It's not a slippery slope at all. The government may not engage in viewpoint discrimination. It's established law. Whatever policies a government entity has with respect to protests must be viewpoint neutral.

Protests are not viewpoint neutral by their very nature. It's the schools that must be viewpoint neutral. If the students want to protest something near and dear to the right, like say, protesting legal abortion, then it must be allowed to stand. There will be various criteria by which protests can be allowed, among them time management, for example. You obviously can't have so many protests that it would disrupt the kids education. The school simply isn't allowed to discriminate as to what they may protest based on topic.

 

[Patooka]

Dude, the cancellation of Firefly would have been WELL worth protesting!!!

Emphasis on would have been. Sadly that shiny ship has sailed gorram it.

You really would cede to government the power to decide what is acceptable speech and what is not? What is acceptable protest and what is not?

I cede nothing. I expect my elected officials to exhibit some common fucking sense and realize there is a difference between protesting about mass shootings and protests about broccoli. Treating such protests differently is not five seconds away from being Soviet Russia. I apologize that you have difficulty understanding that. Incidently, I've never heard a peep out of you when the Bush Administration decided to dial the enforcement of free speech zones up to 11, and Obama green lighting the practice in 2012. If I were passionate about government neutrality in public demonstrations, that would be a bigger concern, in my opinion. The impression you give is that you honestly don't care about government involvement in democratic demonstrations, you are just so adamantly against what this one specific march is for and are desperate to throw out any argument in the hope that it may stick.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Apparently there has been at least one instance of a student being disciplined for not participating in the walkout as well.

Apparent to whom?
Citation needed.

Apparently ... apparent to whom ... word usage incompatible ... irony meter ... does not compute

Here's an interesting story. He was given a choice of "go to the march or go to study hall". He chose "go to class". That wasn't on the authorized list of options, he was pretending that he had a choice about going to class. So he was suspended for "disobedience", not for refusing to go to the march.

Ohio student suspended for staying in class during walkouts

Here's what happened with some students who did go to this state sponsored "spontaneous protest".

Student with ‘Trump’ flag assaulted by mob during National School Walkout
Chicago students trash Walmart during walkout over gun violence

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Apparently there has been at least one instance of a student being disciplined for not participating in the walkout as well.

Apparent to whom?
Citation needed.

Apparently ... apparent to whom ... word usage incompatible ... irony meter ... does not compute

Here's an interesting story. He was given a choice of "go to the march or go to study hall". He chose "go to class". That wasn't on the authorized list of options, he was pretending that he had a choice about going to class. So he was suspended for "disobedience", not for refusing to go to the march.

Ohio student suspended for staying in class during walkouts

Here's what happened with some students who did go to this state sponsored "spontaneous protest".

Student with ‘Trump’ flag assaulted by mob during National School Walkout
Chicago students trash Walmart during walkout over gun violence

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...not-walking-out-heres-what-actually-happened/

Goalpost shifting.

When I was in high school, attendance was taken in study hall. I could get permission to go to a class if resources were available or to the library. Without permission, it's skipping. Let's not pretend it's because he didn't go to the protest because of Libertarian partisanship.

 

[Axulus]

“We don’t want to be in a massacre” is not a viewpoint. It is a reasonable expectation.

Who gets do decide that? What if the decider doesn't decide the way you'd want them to? Perhaps the decider shouldn't have the power to decide at all?

Why can't a protest be an excused absence? Where in the first amendment does it say protests must be met with a school suspension?

 

[Toni]

As was mentioned in the last thread about this, public schools are not allowed to engage in viewpoint discrimination.

If they do not punish one protest, they may not punish all protests.

They are required to have a policy that is independent of the view being expressed.

As has been pointed out to you before, school boards set policy and empower school administration to set policy. Such policies must be in keeping with state and federal regulations. This includes attendance policies.

Students can be and frequently are allowed to miss school for a variety of reasons without penalty. Example: students attending pep rallies are frequently excused from class and sometimes from school grands, depending on situation with impunity. Students who do not attend the pep rally are expected to remain on school grounds and attend their classes and are not allowed to decide to go to the mall instead.

You may state your belief as often as you wish. However, doing so does not make it any more true than if you simply dropped whatever point you hoped to make.

- - - Updated - - -

As was mentioned in the last thread about this, public schools are not allowed to engage in viewpoint discrimination.

If they do not punish one protest, they may not punish all protests.

They are required to have a policy that is independent of the view being expressed.

Because god forbid that anybody ever has school officials engage in anything related to thinking. What kind of example would that be for the children?

Actually, it turns out those who engage in "thinking" would be aware that viewpoint discrimination is a violation of the First Amendment and against the law.

It is unsurprising that you would place the word thinking in quote marks. You simply are incorrect about how schools work and what view points are.

 

[Toni]

Also, is “We don’t want to die” really a political viewpoint?

That's a bit overdramatic. The chance of dying in a mass school shooting is very small. And most gun killings are not done with AR15s but with regular handguns in non-mass shootings. But they do not generate the national headlines.

The chances of dying in a mass school shooting drop to virtually nil if one is not a student or staff member at any school.

Most people do not die from influenza and yet annually, there are mass campaigns to encourage people to get shots against influenza. And continuous campaigns to get people to wash their hands, stay home from work when they are ill (unfortunately, not all employers are on board with that one), etc.

Most people do not die from heart disease but we have an entire month devoted to preventing heart disease.

Most people do not die from automobile accidents, but there are local, state and federal as well as many laws and regulations to improve auto and traffic safety.

Most people do not die from food borne illnesses, yet we have many rules and regulations designed to specifically prevent food borne illness--and penalties for businesses which violate them. People sue when their loved one dies from consuming some contaminated food product--and win. Millions of dollars, sometimes! I don't recall your outrage at that! Maybe I missed it.

Most people do not die from breast cancer, yet: pink ribbons.

Most people do not die from measles, yet kids are required to be vaccinated against measles before attending school.

And so on....

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Apparently ... apparent to whom ... word usage incompatible ... irony meter ... does not compute

Here's an interesting story. He was given a choice of "go to the march or go to study hall". He chose "go to class". That wasn't on the authorized list of options, he was pretending that he had a choice about going to class. So he was suspended for "disobedience", not for refusing to go to the march.

Ohio student suspended for staying in class during walkouts

Here's what happened with some students who did go to this state sponsored "spontaneous protest".

Student with ‘Trump’ flag assaulted by mob during National School Walkout
Chicago students trash Walmart during walkout over gun violence

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...not-walking-out-heres-what-actually-happened/

Goalpost shifting.

When I was in high school, attendance was taken in study hall. I could get permission to go to a class if resources were available or to the library. Without permission, it's skipping. Let's not pretend it's because he didn't go to the protest because of Libertarian partisanship.

It's almost as if I didn't already say that he was "actually" suspended for refusing to opt for one of the two approved choices.

 

[laughing dog]

It's almost as if I didn't already say that he was "actually" suspended for refusing to opt for one of the two approved choices.

You wrote in post 32 of this thread

Apparently there has been at least one instance of a student being disciplined for not participating in the walkout as well.

.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Apparently ... apparent to whom ... word usage incompatible ... irony meter ... does not compute

Here's an interesting story. He was given a choice of "go to the march or go to study hall". He chose "go to class". That wasn't on the authorized list of options, he was pretending that he had a choice about going to class. So he was suspended for "disobedience", not for refusing to go to the march.

Ohio student suspended for staying in class during walkouts

Here's what happened with some students who did go to this state sponsored "spontaneous protest".

Student with ‘Trump’ flag assaulted by mob during National School Walkout
Chicago students trash Walmart during walkout over gun violence

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...not-walking-out-heres-what-actually-happened/

Goalpost shifting.

When I was in high school, attendance was taken in study hall. I could get permission to go to a class if resources were available or to the library. Without permission, it's skipping. Let's not pretend it's because he didn't go to the protest because of Libertarian partisanship.

It's almost as if I didn't already say that he was "actually" suspended for refusing to opt for one of the two approved choices.

You initially wrote:

Apparently there has been at least one instance of a student being disciplined for not participating in the walkout as well.

Later when challenged to supply evidence, you changed this to you:

He was given a choice of "go to the march or go to study hall". He chose "go to class".

The fact of the matter is that you cannot arbitrarily decide to go to a classroom unsupervised in the school when you are supposed to be in the study hall supervised there. This makes it a school matter, whether we disagree with it as a school matter or not, but you made into a 100% political matter saying he was punished merely for not going to the protest. You were incorrect. The thing to do now is admit it.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That's because the official story is always completely correct and never to be doubted. The school made it clear that he couldn't go to class because the school was supporting the walkout. He chose to go to class, he got suspended.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

That's because the official story is always completely correct and never to be doubted. The school made it clear that he couldn't go to class because the school was supporting the walkout. He chose to go to class, he got suspended.

Are you that ignorant of school liability? They can't leave you unsupervised in a classroom during school hours on their property. If something happens to you or you destroy something, they are liable. So you have to listen and go to study hall. Everything is not a giant political conspiracy.

In any case, you still shifted the goalposts. In statement#1 you claimed there was only one option for him. After challenged, in statement#2, you claimed there were two options. Just admit it and move on. Otherwise, your hole will just get deeper and deeper.

 

[RavenSky]

Also, is “We don’t want to die” really a political viewpoint?

That's a bit overdramatic. The chance of dying in a mass school shooting is very small. And most gun killings are not done with AR15s but with regular handguns in non-mass shootings. But they do not generate the national headlines.

The chances of dying in a mass school shooting drop to virtually nil if one is not a student or staff member at any school.

Most people do not die from influenza and yet annually, there are mass campaigns to encourage people to get shots against influenza. And continuous campaigns to get people to wash their hands, stay home from work when they are ill (unfortunately, not all employers are on board with that one), etc.

Most people do not die from heart disease but we have an entire month devoted to preventing heart disease.

Most people do not die from automobile accidents, but there are local, state and federal as well as many laws and regulations to improve auto and traffic safety.

Most people do not die from food borne illnesses, yet we have many rules and regulations designed to specifically prevent food borne illness--and penalties for businesses which violate them. People sue when their loved one dies from consuming some contaminated food product--and win. Millions of dollars, sometimes! I don't recall your outrage at that! Maybe I missed it.

Most people do not die from breast cancer, yet: pink ribbons.

Most people do not die from measles, yet kids are required to be vaccinated against measles before attending school.

And so on....

We had one dog die in an overhead bin on an airplane... ONE DOG... and Congress is already trying to pass legislation to prevent it happening again.

 

[RavenSky]

Hilliard City Schools said a post claiming a student was suspended for not participating in National Walkout Day is false.

The letter in the post says the student would be suspended for Thursday for refusing to leave a classroom during the walkout.

Stacie Raterman, Director of Communications, said the information in the post is false and no students were suspended for participating or not participating in the walkout.

Jacob and Scott confirmed the letter being circulated on social media is accurate.

The letter said he was suspended for refusing to follow instructions.

https://www.10tv.com/article/distri...d-student-suspended-over-walkout-refusal-fake

I can kind of feel for the kid if this is true:

He stayed in the classroom, his father said, because he didn’t want to choose a side.

“He was uncomfortable going to either location as he thought that going outside would most likely be politicizing a horrific event which he wanted no part of,” his father, Scott Shoemaker, wrote in a Facebook post on Friday. “But staying inside would make him look disrespectful or insensitive to 17 innocent victims if it turned out to be more of a memorial service.”

Meanwhile, gun-nuts are trying to turn him into a political football, just like those same gun-nuts falsely accuse "liberals" and "Women's March" of doing to the Marjory Stoneman Douglas survivors.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hat-actually-happened/?utm_term=.f4c8b2955868

 

[Derec]

We had one dog die in an overhead bin on an airplane... ONE DOG... and Congress is already trying to pass legislation to prevent it happening again.

People love dogs.