Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[TomC]

If you're a stalwart "armed citizen" who enters the building looking to "take down" the shooter? You're a fucking idiot.

If you are a parent it's what you do. You try to save your kid.

But you aren't saving your kid. You're increasing the risk to everyone, including your kid.

The way to reduce risk to your kid is to stop people from getting the guns that they use.
Tom

 

[prideandfall]

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

ya know... maybe that's part of the problem too.
we have too god damn many children in this country, and we revere them too much.

we can talk about guns, and mental health, and culture, and etc etc... but it's never discussed that maybe if we didn't shit out a squalling bowl full of crotch fruit at every conceivable opportunity, or had some decency and sensible regulation involving who can have kids and when and how they're raised, we would have less dysfunctional psychos with a bad home life and violent emotional problems running around.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

But we get back to, okay, you enter the school... now what? How many shooters? Where are the shooter(s)? Also, when the cops do breach, how fucked are you?

If I had a kid in that school,

I'd also want a test for alcohol before some dumbass with a gun went in there shooting.

Rushing in to violent situation, risking the lives of a bunch kids, sounds like something that would start with "Hey dude. Hold my beer."
Tom

Their lives were already at risk.

But someone who isn't trained, entering the theater... that is putting more lives at greater risk.

But in this case, I'm not sure that's true.

More bullets flying = more risk. It is that simple.

It the shooter had to take time to 'deal with me' it would be that much more time for kids to get out or proper law enforcement to get in......... He barricaded himself in a room full of children and started shooting. I don't think an armed cop, or parent, or anyone would have made that situation WORSE.

Of which of all these scenarios, you have no idea what scenario you are actually facing.

 

[Playball40]

If you're a stalwart "armed citizen" who enters the building looking to "take down" the shooter? You're a fucking idiot.

If you are a parent it's what you do. You try to save your kid.

Parents tried to enter the school. They were stopped by the "good guys with guns."

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

If you're a stalwart "armed citizen" who enters the building looking to "take down" the shooter? You're a fucking idiot.

If you are a parent it's what you do. You try to save your kid.

Really. I’d risk my life without hesitation to protect my children.

I would sooner have the police who are paid and trained to "put their lives on the line every day" do it so I don't have to but yeah, I'd certainly do it.

And yet the USSC says that's not true. They are not obligated to 'put their lives at risk to save yours'.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If you're a stalwart "armed citizen" who enters the building looking to "take down" the shooter? You're a fucking idiot.

If you are a parent it's what you do. You try to save your kid.

Parents tried to enter the school. They were stopped by the "good guys with guns."

And then issue #87, aren't schools locking down in this situation? I'm almost certain it'd be impossible to get into my daughter's school if there was a shooting. The doors ain't unlocked. Could start shooting at the glass door...

 

[Playball40]

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

ya know... maybe that's part of the problem too.
we have too god damn many children in this country, and we revere them too much.

we can talk about guns, and mental health, and culture, and etc etc... but it's never discussed that maybe if we didn't shit out a squalling bowl full of crotch fruit at every conceivable opportunity, or had some decency and sensible regulation involving who can have kids and when and how they're raised, we would have less dysfunctional psychos with a bad home life and violent emotional problems running around.

disgusting

 

[prideandfall]

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

ya know... maybe that's part of the problem too.
we have too god damn many children in this country, and we revere them too much.

we can talk about guns, and mental health, and culture, and etc etc... but it's never discussed that maybe if we didn't shit out a squalling bowl full of crotch fruit at every conceivable opportunity, or had some decency and sensible regulation involving who can have kids and when and how they're raised, we would have less dysfunctional psychos with a bad home life and violent emotional problems running around.

disgusting

thank you for proving my point.

 

[Ford]

They weren’t unprepared. They were cowards. They wanted to do the easy stuff and appear to be doing something.

I frequently hear about how cops put their lives on the line anytime they do something as innocuous as a traffic stop and yet here are the keystone cops dicking around outside, messing with distraught parents. All part of the jobs worth "procedures" I expect.

Again, one officer was shot trying to stop the gunman. I honestly do get the hesitancy of going in when there are a LOT of children present. One needs to be very, very certain of what one is doing in such situations. Very few police officers are trained to engage in a firefight, particularly with children present. Very few police officers have training and qualifications as sharpshooters/snipers.

I disagree with that assertion. Enough was known about the situation, a lone gunman was in a classroom shooting children. Desperate times calls for desperate measures. I'm pretty sure just about any of the parent would not hesitate to get in there and try to stop it. Wouldn't you?

Really? You think that just anyone who had access to a gun and the guts to rush in could take down someone armed with a semi-automatic weapon and wearing body armor? And not shoot more children and adults?

You watch too many movies and play too many video games.

I'm sorry Toni, but if I heard that gun going off inside that class room and I was armed, I DO think I would have tried. I just cannot imagine hearing the screams of children and NOT trying to do something. Right or wrong, there is no way I could have 'stood down' for the perfect shot.

But we get back to, okay, you enter the school... now what? How many shooters? Where are the shooter(s)? Also, when the cops do breach, how fucked are you?

Well here's the thing...

If you're a stalwart "armed citizen" who enters the building looking to "take down" the shooter? You're a fucking idiot.

If you're an LEO with the training and kit to deal with this? You can draw fire and keep the shooter occupied. A teenager with a couple AR 15s is gonna maybe shift his focus from the 4th graders and deal with the cop who is trying to take him down, and being a teenager with a gun, he's not even remotely equipped to face that threat.

And yeah, it sucks for the cop who has to draw the fire, but that's the gig. You might get hit, but you've got a much better chance than little Tammy with her Hello Kitty backpack.

No doubt. I just don't believe it's human nature to stand idle while you hear children being slaughtered. I'm certainly not saying it's smart, I'm saying what I would do.

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.

I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

ya know... maybe that's part of the problem too.
we have too god damn many children in this country, and we revere them too much.

we can talk about guns, and mental health, and culture, and etc etc... but it's never discussed that maybe if we didn't shit out a squalling bowl full of crotch fruit at every conceivable opportunity, or had some decency and sensible regulation involving who can have kids and when and how they're raised, we would have less dysfunctional psychos with a bad home life and violent emotional problems running around.

disgusting

prideandfall isn't near the top of the list for PTA member of the year and they aren't shying away from that either.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If you're a stalwart "armed citizen" who enters the building looking to "take down" the shooter? You're a fucking idiot.

If you are a parent it's what you do. You try to save your kid.

Parents tried to enter the school. They were stopped by the "good guys with guns."

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

You said they were running into an armed conflict in confined space, wholly untrained to deal with it... and armed with a gun. That isn't "trying to save their kid", it sounds like something "a fucking idiot" would do in a desperate situation.

 

[prideandfall]

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

ya know... maybe that's part of the problem too.
we have too god damn many children in this country, and we revere them too much.

we can talk about guns, and mental health, and culture, and etc etc... but it's never discussed that maybe if we didn't shit out a squalling bowl full of crotch fruit at every conceivable opportunity, or had some decency and sensible regulation involving who can have kids and when and how they're raised, we would have less dysfunctional psychos with a bad home life and violent emotional problems running around.

disgusting

prideandfall isn't near the top of the list for PTA member of the year and they aren't shying away from that either.

and again, proving my point.

"shit them out so hard and so fast you prolapse your vagina" is the only acceptable narrative one is allowed to have regarding breeding, or else one is slagged as "disgusting" or the actual point is completely ignored for the sake of being cute and snarky.

if our society had a more cautious and considered approach to child-having and child-rearing, it would stop a lot of these sorts of problems at the source: unwell people who take out their unwellness in acts of violence.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

prideandfall isn't near the top of the list for PTA member of the year and they aren't shying away from that either.

and again, proving my point.

"shit them out so hard and so fast you prolapse your vagina" is the only acceptable narrative one is allowed to have regarding breeding, or else one is slagged as "disgusting" or the actual point is completely ignored for the sake of being cute and snarky.

if our society had a more cautious and considered approach to child-having and child-rearing, it would stop a lot of these sorts of problems at the source: unwell people who take out their unwellness in acts of violence.

But if that were true, parents would have the same behavior out of each of their children. And we know that isn't the case. That is an overly simplistic misunderstanding of psychology. This also tries to baselessly put blame on the shooter's parent(s)/guardian(s).

 

[TSwizzle]

And yet the USSC says that's not true. They are not obligated to 'put their lives at risk to save yours'.

I was not aware of that.

 

[TomC]

Really. I’d risk my life without hesitation to protect my children.

Would you vote against the politicians who get support from the gun lobby? From like of the Tea party Republicans?

Would you go that far to protect your children?
Or are your political beliefs more important than your kids?

In my experience, politicians like Texas Governor Abbott doesn't care about your kids as much as he cares about reelection. And he knows that Texans don't either. He can preside over hundreds of dead Texan school children. As long as he doesn't interfere with potential murderers having access to their 2nd amendment rights Texans will keep returning him, and politicians like him, to wealth and power.

Do children's lives matter as much as politician's careers? In Texas, it doesn't look that way.
Tom

 

[prideandfall]

But if that were true, parents would have the same behavior out of each of their children. And we know that isn't the case.

well of course it isn't true in that kind of simplistic black and white framing, but that's as naive a way to approach it as saying that if you regulated guns you wouldn't get rid of *all* the guns, so why bother regulating guns?

i'm not saying it's the only source of the problem, but i definitely find it to be one of the many pieces of a tapestry of fuckery that is the US cultural situation.

This also tries to baselessly put blame on the shooter's parent(s)/guardian(s).

uh how is that exactly? that would require some rather some extraneous mental gymnastics to come to.

 

[TSwizzle]

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.


I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.


I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

You keep saying that, but it is nothing but TALK. Join the police, train in SWAT, get your ass in these situations, then come back to us. Otherwise, you are a 'coward', Trausti's words not mine, until proven otherwise.

 

[SLD]

This was posted by a friend on Facebook. This is why religion sucks. We can’t do anything about all these bad things until God fixes the problem of sin. Therefore nothing can be done. Fuck me. I fucking hate religion. An evil institution that has millions brainwashed to believe this bullshit.

 

[Ford]

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.


I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

"As a parent," my first instinct would be to save my kid. I get that. Yet you think your first instinct is right. Pull out your sidearm and rush into the fray. Next thing you know, you're dead from a cop's bullet because he thought you were the shooter.

Are you still a hero to your kid?

 

[prideandfall]

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

genuine curiosity here:
you said you'd be willing to die to save your kid.
would you be willing to give up the ability to own a gun to save your kid?