Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Patooka]

You said they were running into an armed conflict in confined space, wholly untrained to deal with it... and armed with a gun. That isn't "trying to save their kid", it sounds like something "a fucking idiot" would do in a desperate situation.

Don't be so absurd. Every single parent acts in a sane and rational manner when their kid's life is at stake.

 

[TomC]

No doubt but to call a parent trying to save their kid "a fucking idiot" is uncalled for.

ya know... maybe that's part of the problem too.
we have too god damn many children in this country, and we revere them too much.

we can talk about guns, and mental health, and culture, and etc etc... but it's never discussed that maybe if we didn't shit out a squalling bowl full of crotch fruit at every conceivable opportunity, or had some decency and sensible regulation involving who can have kids and when and how they're raised, we would have less dysfunctional psychos with a bad home life and violent emotional problems running around.

disgusting

It isn't new.
Back in some abortion thread he advocated abortion for three years after birth.

Very Pro-Choice.
Tom

 

[TSwizzle]

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.


I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

Actually let me rephrase that as it was a bit harsh., "make you think twice about charging into a situation" is maybe more accurate.

"As a parent," my first instinct would be to save my kid. I get that. Yet you think your first instinct is right. Pull out your sidearm and rush into the fray. Next thing you know, you're dead from a cop's bullet because he thought you were the shooter.

As I say, there are many things that would make one think twice about rushing in to this particular situation but my own safety is pretty low on my concerns.

You do seem to be looking for any reason NOT to intervene.

 

[prideandfall]

It isn't new.
Back in some abortion thread he advocated abortion for three years after birth.

Very Pro-Choice.
Tom

that is a complete bald faced lie.

i advocate abortion up to the 35th or 36th trimester - that's much older than three.
and i am only nominally pro-choice, insofar as it's on the path to get to being pro-abortion.

 

[TomC]

You do seem to be looking for any reason NOT to intervene.

I see that as a TeaPartier thing.

Intervene before the gunman is in the school shooting at little kids. How about that?
Tom

 

[Derec]

The firearms makers and dealers rely on looks rather than function to sell their products. Go to your local gun store's website. The front page is splashed with rifles that look exactly like military weapons.

Very much true.

When I was a kid, a nice rifle was one with quality woodwork on the stock, or a good sight.

I think wood stocks on military rifles became unpopular with Vietnam, on account of warping.

Nowadays, the kids are sold on how "badass" their rifle looks, and it is worth noting that the perpetrator in this latest shooting was a fucking teenager. So was the one who shot up the store in Buffalo. So was the darling of the gun-nut right, Kyle Rittenhouse.

You mention Kyle (who was merely defending himself, remember?) but "badass" rifles are popular across the political spectrum. For example, they are just as popular with black militias, people who occupied the area around burned down Wendy's in Atlanta, and some #BLM protesters like this guy.

The Oxford Michigan shooter was 15.

He also used a handgun, not a rifle. A pistol like that has enough firepower and is more maneuverable in close quarters.

The Sandy Hook shooter was an old man at 20, and who can forget the teenage Columbine killers?

Only one of the three weapons Lanza had was a "badass" AR-15. He also had a handgun and a non-scary looking bolt action rifle.

Now you might be saying "hold on there, Ford...are you suggesting we should pass legislation that keeps companies who make a deadly product from marketing it to children? That seems crazy, and it sure won't work."

Are they marketing it to children though? Is there a Joe Camel type cartoon character with a AR15?

 

[TomC]

It isn't new.
Back in some abortion thread he advocated abortion for three years after birth.

Very Pro-Choice.
Tom

that is a complete bald faced lie.

i advocate abortion up to the 35th or 36th trimester - that's much older than three.
and i am only nominally pro-choice, insofar as it's on the path to get to being pro-abortion.

Do you advocate abortion of Afro-Americans? Indigenous peoples? Queers?

How long do you give us to prove our personhood? Is it the same for all of us?

If a cop shot you, would it be wrong of me to cheer and buy her a drink?

Tom6

 

[Ford]

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.


I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

Actually let me rephrase that as it was a bit harsh., "make you think twice about charging into a situation" is maybe more accurate.

"As a parent," my first instinct would be to save my kid. I get that. Yet you think your first instinct is right. Pull out your sidearm and rush into the fray. Next thing you know, you're dead from a cop's bullet because he thought you were the shooter.

As I say, there are many things that would make one think twice about rushing in to this particular situation but my own safety is pretty low on my concerns.

You do seem to be looking for any reason NOT to intervene.

As I related above, there are times when you should absolutely not intervene.

When my kid was younger, I swore up and down that I would step out in front of a bus to save her life. I sill would.

Would I throw myself in front of a bus to demonstrate my heroism even if she wasn't in danger? No. That would be stupid.


By the way, a few years ago I did come pretty close to dying. Not defending her, but still....I was in an ICU for a few days, and it was touch and go for awhile.


When I got out, my daughter - who was pregnant at the time - said "I need you to be there for me, and I need you around to be in my son's life." You seem to have this conceit that you'll be the hero in your story, and if you're remembered fondly for your death, that's enough. It isn't.

 

[prideandfall]

Do you advocate abortion of Afro-Americans? Indigenous peoples? Queers?

and whites, and pakistanis, and asians, straights, bisexuals, furries, goths, and canadians.

How long do you give us to prove our personhood? Is it the same for all of us?

10-12 years on average, and no.

If a cop shot you, would it be wrong of me to cheer and buy her a drink?

Tom6

no.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Japan has a very strict policy on guns and a very strict penal system. Don't know about today, they had a low recidivism rate in the past.

And not too much concern for whether the person sent to jail is guilty or not.

There's also a cultural pattern that makes people like this nut more likely to just commit suicide rather than lash out as part of committing suicide.

He was not a "nut". There is no indication he suffered from a specific illness (of which he still wouldn't be a "nut", that shit is part of the problem). He wasn't capable of coping with what he was suffering from. And he devolved into a very dark psychopathic mindset.

He was hurting badly and wasn't helped.

Whether he had a formal psychiatric diagnosis or not doesn't change the fact that he was nuts.

 

[TSwizzle]

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.


I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

Actually let me rephrase that as it was a bit harsh., "make you think twice about charging into a situation" is maybe more accurate.

"As a parent," my first instinct would be to save my kid. I get that. Yet you think your first instinct is right. Pull out your sidearm and rush into the fray. Next thing you know, you're dead from a cop's bullet because he thought you were the shooter.

As I say, there are many things that would make one think twice about rushing in to this particular situation but my own safety is pretty low on my concerns.

You do seem to be looking for any reason NOT to intervene.

As I related above, there are times when you should absolutely not intervene.

Understood, we just disagree that this situation (the school) is one of those times. That's cool.

 

[prideandfall]

You're very woke, in my estimation.

good for you?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you're a stalwart "armed citizen" who enters the building looking to "take down" the shooter? You're a fucking idiot.

If you're an LEO with the training and kit to deal with this? You can draw fire and keep the shooter occupied. A teenager with a couple AR 15s is gonna maybe shift his focus from the 4th graders and deal with the cop who is trying to take him down, and being a teenager with a gun, he's not even remotely equipped to face that threat.

And yeah, it sucks for the cop who has to draw the fire, but that's the gig. You might get hit, but you've got a much better chance than little Tammy with her Hello Kitty backpack.

Even an unsuccessful engagement against a mass shooter usually stops the mass shooting.

Consider, for example, the Vegas nut--the first attack on his position was driven off and it was several minutes before they were able to go against him, but despite having driven off the attack and still having both weapons and targets he didn't fire another shot at the concert.

 

[Patooka]

Even an unsuccessful engagement against a mass shooter usually stops the mass shooting.

Consider, for example, the Vegas nut--the first attack on his position was driven off and it was several minutes before they were able to go against him, but despite having driven off the attack and still having both weapons and targets he didn't fire another shot at the concert.

So you're open to examples of actions that stop mass shootings? I have a few more, if you're interested.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Can the school district be sued?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

About a decade ago, a bunch of my co-workers were at a bar celebrating a friend's birthday party when a shooting happened. There was a fight, and someone pulled out a gun, and the situation deteriorated from there. One of my friends had to leave his car there because the deceased guy bled out on his Honda. Another friend who'd gone through CCW training hid under the bar.


I asked what he would have done if the gun he had in his car was in his hand when the shooting started. He said "I'd stay the fuck down." That was the training. Stay the fuck down because your instinct to be the "hero" is probably wrong. The shooter will peg you as a target, and when the cops arrive they might do the same.

If you're the cop who arrives? You're operating from a different perspective.

I'm sure there are all sorts of scenarios and experiences you can bring forth that would stop you from trying to save your kid. I wouldn't judge you on it though, that's up to you. You do your thing, I'll do mine.

"As a parent," my first instinct would be to save my kid. I get that. Yet you think your first instinct is right. Pull out your sidearm and rush into the fray. Next thing you know, you're dead from a cop's bullet because he thought you were the shooter.

Are you still a hero to your kid?

Apparently “saving your child” is “making your child an orphan”.

 

[Elixir]

You're very woke, in my estimation.

As usual, it's hard to tell if you're dissing or praising.
But it's plain that what you're not doing is addressing the subject.

 

[bilby]

Convince me that there is no trend of acceptance of violent atrocity.

Convince me I don’t have an invisible dragon in my garage.

You’re making the claim; If you can’t defend it, you need to drop it.

No such trend exists; Quite the reverse. The world has been becoming steadily less violent for centuries. People are no longer accepting of the kind of behaviour that was routine just a few decades ago, and are horrified by the stuff we accepted as normal a few centuries ago.

The very word ‘medieval’ has come to mean ‘violent and cruel’ - because the past is a cruel and violent place.

 

[TomC]

You're very woke, in my estimation.

good for you?

No.
I find woke people a big disaster.

Personally, I'm more inclined to self identify as anti-Woke. Woke is a generic term for the culture of entitlement, victimhood, and divisiveness.
YMMV.
Tom

 

[prideandfall]

You're very woke, in my estimation.

good for you?

No.
I find woke people a big disaster.

Personally, I'm more inclined to self identify as anti-Woke. Woke is a generic term for the culture of entitlement, victimhood, and divisiveness.
YMMV.
Tom

good for you.