Another Trump Rape Surfaces

[Derec]

So, yeah. Pretty plausible. I'm shocked that you would automatically dismiss an allegation from a woman though, that's pretty atypical from you.

I am not dismissing it because it was a woman. I am dismissing it because
1. her whole book seems to be a screed against men. Just look at the title.
2. She waited 23 years to talk about it, and just in time when she is hoping to sell a lot of books. Ka-ching!
3. The whole story with the changing room is completely unbelievable and reads like something out of a bad novel.

Also, whether or not he ever attacked Ivana is not at all related whether he raped this woman in a department store changing room 23 years ago.

 

[Derec]

Considering this happened only four years after Anita Hill, I don't blame her for being quiet about it, and I certainly don't blame the friend suggesting to her to be quiet about it. Keep in mind, Trump was emphatic that his has never met Carroll in his entire life.

The only thing that "happened" to Anita Hill is that she wasn't automatically believed by all Senators and ultimately was unsuccessful in preventing the confirmation of her old boss.
I am so sick of feminists dragging out Anita Hill like she was some kind of martyr.

 

[Derec]

I have no doubt the woman's claims are true.

Really? Have you read her account?
We have a woman who was allegedly sexually assaulted many times ever since the age of 6 (assaulted by a 7 year old "rich boy" allegedly) but is somehow not at all vigilant and thinks nothing of going into a changing room with Donald Trump even though he previously said he wanted her to try on some lingerie. Do you really find that so credible you have "no doubt" that it is true?
And how about the salespeople? That was a fancy NYC store and yet there were no employees around?

If you are a woman, you probably know women who have been assaulted but have only told a couple of friends about what happened.

That doesn't mean that every time a woman claims rape she must be telling the truth.

Did the men who think this woman is lying read the part where her friend told her if she went to the police, she would be attacked viciously by Trump's friends and hordes of lawyers?

People still have the right to defend themselves. However, had she gone to the police then, there would be evidence - surveillance tapes from the store, trace evidence from her dress, etc. Now there is no evidence one way or another, so there is no chance her story will be disproven. And plenty of people will believe her automatically.

It's very common for women not to report these crimes because they are fearful of not being believed. Good men are rarely accused of sexual assault, but when a man with a notorious reputation for abusing women is accused of assault by at least a dozen women, only a fool or someone who doesn't want to know the truth will claim it's the women who are lying. We are talking about a man who openly said he could grab women by the pussy. Isn't that enough to make people realize what a revolting human being this man is?

Even if he raped or sexually assaulted somebody before, that does not mean that every woman who claims he raped by him is telling the truth. Maybe she just wants to sell a lot of books.

 

[Derec]

Your post seems like a woman-hating radical masculinist screed.

BS. I wrote nothing against women in general. Unlike Carroll against men.

There was a study or paper submitted to the forum which showed certain women are more targeted than others. So this isn't cause for additional skepticism beyond a he-said she-said doubt.

Being attacked so many times is still quite a lot. Either she is the unluckiest woman alive, or is exaggerating or outright lying about at least some of these encounters.

It is very common for people not to go public with rape until decades later.

And conveniently there is no evidence left, but you can still appeal to "believe all women" nonsense.

It isn't highly suspect, just unknown. No matter how much you may want to attack her credibility, we just don't know.

The story is highly suspect. In a changing room at a high-end department store and no sales associates anywhere within shouting distance? Come on!

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

2020! Vote Orange Rapist! A president we can be proud of.

This is woman #17. A legacy to be proud of.

 

[Patooka]

Also, whether or not he ever attacked Ivana is not at all related whether he raped this woman in a department store changing room 23 years ago.

It's called a recognized pattern of behaviour. You're correct though; it was the only time Trump has acted in such a manner around women. There have been no other indications that his attitude towards women is inappropriate, to say the least.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Witch hunt. Same thing happened with Brett Kavanaugh. Dems were so sure he was guilty. Nothing happened.

Nothing happened? What actually happened is the Republicans refused to investigate whether he was guilty or not. All that we saw was a coverup. Epic level corruption.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

More importantly, how many these high profile men have been brought down by far fewer accusations?

Well, I think a system where an accusation without evidence is enough to destroy a man's career is a pretty messed up system.

In general I agree on this. Trying to prove a rape long after the fact is extremely difficult and short of that nothing should be done. However, I think Ford managed to do so.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

BS. I wrote nothing against women in general. Unlike Carroll against men.


Being attacked so many times is still quite a lot. Either she is the unluckiest woman alive, or is exaggerating or outright lying about at least some of these encounters.

It is very common for people not to go public with rape until decades later.

And conveniently there is no evidence left, but you can still appeal to "believe all women" nonsense.

It isn't highly suspect, just unknown. No matter how much you may want to attack her credibility, we just don't know.

The story is highly suspect. In a changing room at a high-end department store and no sales associates anywhere within shouting distance? Come on!

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Has he ever had consensual sex? (Ivanka doesn’t count)

 

[spikepipsqueak]

Really? Have you read her account?
We have a woman who was allegedly sexually assaulted many times ever since the age of 6 (assaulted by a 7 year old "rich boy" allegedly) but is somehow not at all vigilant and thinks nothing of going into a changing room with Donald Trump even though he previously said he wanted her to try on some lingerie. Do you really find that so credible you have "no doubt" that it is true?
And how about the salespeople? That was a fancy NYC store and yet there were no employees around?


That doesn't mean that every time a woman claims rape she must be telling the truth.

Did the men who think this woman is lying read the part where her friend told her if she went to the police, she would be attacked viciously by Trump's friends and hordes of lawyers?

People still have the right to defend themselves. However, had she gone to the police then, there would be evidence - surveillance tapes from the store, trace evidence from her dress, etc. Now there is no evidence one way or another, so there is no chance her story will be disproven. And plenty of people will believe her automatically.

It's very common for women not to report these crimes because they are fearful of not being believed. Good men are rarely accused of sexual assault, but when a man with a notorious reputation for abusing women is accused of assault by at least a dozen women, only a fool or someone who doesn't want to know the truth will claim it's the women who are lying. We are talking about a man who openly said he could grab women by the pussy. Isn't that enough to make people realize what a revolting human being this man is?

Even if he raped or sexually assaulted somebody before, that does not mean that every woman who claims he raped by him is telling the truth. Maybe she just wants to sell a lot of books.

Derec in all your automatic naysaying, do you concede that there is any possibility that a woman who says she has been raped may be truthful?

Are all women automatically liars because all men = unassailably perfect?.

I need to know.

 

[southernhybrid]

Originally Posted by Derec View Post
Really? Have you read her account?
We have a woman who was allegedly sexually assaulted many times ever since the age of 6 (assaulted by a 7 year old "rich boy" allegedly) but is somehow not at all vigilant and thinks nothing of going into a changing room with Donald Trump even though he previously said he wanted her to try on some lingerie. Do you really find that so credible you have "no doubt" that it is true?
And how about the salespeople? That was a fancy NYC store and yet there were no employees around?

Yes, I did read her account. People who know her say that she's known for being truthful. Why would she make up something like this, knowing full well that she will be criticized? I've told you before that women frequently keep these things to themselves or only share it with a couple of very close friends. My younger sister was raped twice. She never reported it to the police. The first time she was gang raped in a park when she was in high school. The second time, a stranger dragged her into an alley very early in the morning after she left a store where she bought a newspaper. She was very young when those two episodes happened.

I have a friend who is 30 years younger than I am. She was also raped at a young age, but only told some friends. This is very common. The women who wrote the book, has claimed that she's talking about these things now, in the hope of making women feel less fearful of reporting sexual assaults they have experienced.

I've been lucky. I've only had a man threaten me with rape once. I've already told the story about how I was able to get him to back off. But, I've been groped, and I've been sexually harassed by patients a couple of times. Luckily, I've always worked with women, so my work situation was very different than it is for a woman who works in a male dominated profession or who interacts with male celebrities on a regular basis. I've also had men say very inappropriate things to me. I'm able to shrug those things off, but some women feel very threatened when a man says suggestive things to t hem.

Trump has probably sexually assaulted more than the 17 women that have reported their experiences, out of fear or criticism or even death threats. Anyone who thinks he's telling the truth is delusional or brainwashed. I don't understand how any woman can vote for this despicable man.

And Derec, just because women criticize men who are sexual predators, doesn't mean that we hate men. I love men. I'm married to a man. I raised a son. I have many male friends. But, I also know that a certain percentage of men are sexual predators. That's just a fact of life.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To be fair, my one main problem with the accusation is that this comes out in a book... years after this guy is running for election. Why wait after waiting so long?

Money? After all the other accusations didn't make a difference, why bother coming out without some sort of benefit involved? Why risk all the garbage that comes with these type of revelations, unless you are going to at least get paid to unearth some history. Are we that jaded as a nation now?

I know nothing of this person. I do know Trump to be an extraordinarily bad person and habitual liar who clearly views his life as paramount to all other. But while time passing can make someone wonder why not come out with the truth when it is convenient for the Police or electoral processes... financial incentives could also be at hand with the truth, as accusing someone powerful with lots of lawyers of rape is typically a dubious and fruitless act.

 

[JohnG]

This I know for a fact. Donald Trump is a proven liar.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

To be fair, my one main problem with the accusation is that this comes out in a book... years after this guy is running for election. Why wait after waiting so long?

The main problem with this line of argumentation is that it assumes victims “wait,” as if they are just champing at the bit to tell everyone this amazing and wonderful news, but think, “No, no, I’ll save this for some special time.”

No victim “waits” to tell their story. No victim wants to be a victim. There are so many powerful psychological issues involved that keep someone from even acknowledging to themselves what has happened, let alone telling the whole world.

Not to mention that when we’re talking about this end of the social ladder, when women tell their stories, the rapists end up getting nominated to the Supreme Court.

 

[Elixir]

Witch hunt. Same thing happened with Brett Kavanaugh. Dems were so sure he was guilty. Nothing happened.

Nothing happened? What actually happened is the Republicans refused to investigate whether he was guilty or not. All that we saw was a coverup. Epic level corruption.

Proves he was innocent!!!
</alt-white moron>

 

[Derec]

Derec in all your automatic naysaying,

It's not automatic "naysaying".

do you concede that there is any possibility that a woman who says she has been raped may be truthful?

In many cases the woman is truthful. Hell, even in this case she may be truthful. I did not claim I know for sure. But I do not think it likely because the account is suspect and the timing is suspect (she wants to sell more books). Furthermore, so much time has elapsed that no objective way to ascertain the truth exists.

I need to know.

No you don't. You construct straw men.

 

[Derec]

The main problem with this line of argumentation is that it assumes victims “wait,”

The main problem with your line of argumentation is that you assume that an accuser == victim. That is not so, a mere accusation does not mean that the accusation is truthful.

 

[Derec]

However, I think Ford managed to do so.

How do you figure that? She could not even remember when or where the alleged attack allegedly took place.

 

[Derec]

Nothing happened? What actually happened is the Republicans refused to investigate whether he was guilty or not. All that we saw was a coverup. Epic level corruption.

There was more investigation into accusation against Kavanaugh than into accusations against Justin Fairfax.
I think both deserve presumption of innocence but the deafening cacophony of anti-Kavanaugh voices in the media vs. the equally deafening silence about Fairfax is telling.