Another Trump Rape Surfaces

[Derec]

It's called a recognized pattern of behaviour.

That can work both ways. A recognized (or perceived) pattern of behavior can be used by copycats to make up their own stories that will have an easy time being believed because of the "recognized/perceived pattern". Coming 23 years after the alleged fact and coinciding with a book she hopes to sell many copies of, this strikes me likely as a copycat allegation. Trump is very well known, hated by a large segment of the population, and subject to many other allegations.

You're correct though; it was the only time Trump has acted in such a manner around women. There have been no other indications that his attitude towards women is inappropriate, to say the least.

Huh?

 

[Toni]

Perhaps it took her that long to heal from the attack and build up the courage to come forward, you ever think of that?

Perhaps. But she also could be making it all up. Impossible to tell without evidence.

Like many rape victims, she told friends within minutes of the attack. Her friends urged her to report him to the police. She just...couldn't--like so many rape victims cannot. Even now, she cannot bring herself to call it rape when clearly, what she describes is rape. But she was able to fight him off. Like many rape victims, she felt responsible. She thought they were just joking, this famous man who had recognized her on the street and asked for her help picking out a gift. Until he ripped off her clothes and penetrated her, she really thought she was just joking with a ridiculous man. But she thinks she didn't have it nearly as bad as do women and girls who are raped many times over many years. She's still in denial to a certain extent.

 

[Toni]

It's called a recognized pattern of behaviour.

That can work both ways. A recognized (or perceived) pattern of behavior can be used by copycats to make up their own stories that will have an easy time being believed because of the "recognized/perceived pattern". Coming 23 years after the alleged fact and coinciding with a book she hopes to sell many copies of, this strikes me likely as a copycat allegation. Trump is very well known, hated by a large segment of the population, and subject to many other allegations.

You're correct though; it was the only time Trump has acted in such a manner around women. There have been no other indications that his attitude towards women is inappropriate, to say the least.

Huh?

Seriously, Derec: are there ever ANY rape allegations that you even kind of believe??????

Her friends have corroborated that she told them immediately after the fact.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

To be fair, my one main problem with the accusation is that this comes out in a book... years after this guy is running for election. Why wait after waiting so long?

The main problem with this line of argumentation is that it assumes victims “wait,” as if they are just champing at the bit to tell everyone this amazing and wonderful news, but think, “No, no, I’ll save this for some special time.”

No victim “waits” to tell their story. No victim wants to be a victim. There are so many powerful psychological issues involved that keep someone from even acknowledging to themselves what has happened, let alone telling the whole world.

Not to mention that when we’re talking about this end of the social ladder, when women tell their stories, the rapists end up getting nominated to the Supreme Court.

I understand where you are coming from. I just ponder the possibility of a pro / con for coming out with the allegation. After all, she didn’t come forth a few years ago. So there would need to be a reason why. I think this can help detail why some would wait or hesitate but ultimately come out... without it being about extortion or lies.

 

[Derec]

Like many rape victims, she told friends within minutes of the attack.

Do we have their sworn statements? Or anything contemporaneously written down that can be verified?

Her friends urged her to report him to the police. She just...couldn't--like so many rape victims cannot. Even now, she cannot bring herself to call it rape when clearly, what she describes is rape. But she was able to fight him off. Like many rape victims, she felt responsible. She thought they were just joking, this famous man who had recognized her on the street and asked for her help picking out a gift. Until he ripped off her clothes and penetrated her, she really thought she was just joking with a ridiculous man. But she thinks she didn't have it nearly as bad as do women and girls who are raped many times over many years. She's still in denial to a certain extent.

So you assume she must be telling the truth despite lack of evidence, why?

 

[Derec]

Seriously, Derec: are there ever ANY rape allegations that you even kind of believe??????

Any? Yes. This one? No. The story seems so fantastical.

 

[repoman]

I really don't care whether this woman is lying, crazy or soberly telling the truth.

Trump has enough crazy stuff related to his actions that this should not be important. In fact there is a risk that if she is a loon (and that info may come out) that this will help with his PR and draw away from the almost verified litany of actions.

If the divorce proceeding are accurate about the hair pulling of Ivanka (a narcissistic projection of needing her to feel the same pain as him after scalp reduction surgery?) then that is bright red flag. It is actually about the worst kind of abuse possible, worse than a heated dual argument with a push then a shove.

Also, why this specific separation of treatment of women versus treatment of any person? If Trump was gay and molested or harrassed men would he be misandrist? No, he is just a asshole that will get pleasure with no concerns for others.

A misogynist man who think Trump will be great for all men is mistaken. That predatory, callous behavior will extend to a huge amount of men as well, even if not sexually.

 

[Derec]

Yes, I did read her account. People who know her say that she's known for being truthful. Why would she make up something like this, knowing full well that she will be criticized?

She is trying to sell books. And in the circles she moves in, Trump is so hated, she will not get any criticisms, just praise.

I've told you before that women frequently keep these things to themselves or only share it with a couple of very close friends. My younger sister was raped twice. She never reported it to the police. The first time she was gang raped in a park when she was in high school. The second time, a stranger dragged her into an alley very early in the morning after she left a store where she bought a newspaper. She was very young when those two episodes happened.

Yes, rapes do happen. That doesn't mean that every rape allegation is automatically truthful. I do not buy Trump would have raped somebody in a dressing room of a fancy store. Or that they did not have any sales associates within a shouting distance. The story lacks verisimilitude. A does the idea that a woman who was allegedly sexually assaulted about ten times previously would be so careless.

And Derec, just because women criticize men who are sexual predators, doesn't mean that we hate men. I love men. I'm married to a man. I raised a son. I have many male friends. But, I also know that a certain percentage of men are sexual predators. That's just a fact of life.

This woman wrote a book titled "What are men good for - a modest proposal". The original "modest proposal" was about killing and eating Irish babies btw.

 

[Derec]

If the divorce proceeding are accurate about the hair pulling of Ivanka

Ivana. Ivanka is his daughter.

 

[Ford]

I really don't care whether this woman is lying, crazy or soberly telling the truth.

Trump has enough crazy stuff related to his actions that this should not be important.

Again, there's a pattern of behavior.

Multiple accusations of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and out and out rape. And those are just the ones that go public. They are not alone.

I may have mentioned it before, but I knew someone who was on his show as a contestant. This was before it became the "D List Celebrity Apprentice." He was a creep. As I recall, she said he told her that she was pretty, but "we gotta do something about those" and pointed at her chest. That's the sort of person he is. The Access Hollywood tape was a window into how he views women. He wasn't joking.

This isn't like the "well he always seemed like a quiet, nice person" case of the guy who turns out to be a serial killer. This is nobody being the least bit surprised that he tried to rape someone in a dressing room. Along with the women who have come forward, there's a lot of others who are nodding their heads and saying "yeah, that's the guy I met."

Is that enough to prosecute him for this incident? No, but it should be enough to disqualify him for the Presidency. Hell, it would disqualify him to be a mid level manager at any company with a semi-competent HR department.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The main problem with this line of argumentation is that it assumes victims “wait,”

The main problem with your line of argumentation is that you assume that an accuser == victim.

No, I very clearly do not. You have constructed a false equivalence in order to stuff a strawman. What a surprise.

That is not so, a mere accusation does not mean that the accusation is truthful.

Which has zero to do with what I wrote, which was in response to Jimmy's question as to why an alleged (happy?) victim might wait. Rape victims don't "wait" to report, like they're holding something back for the perfect opportunity. It's simply the wrong way to think of what is going on.

As to this particular accusation, if it is false, then logic dictates she hasn't "waited" for anything, because, if it is false, then that means nothing ever happened. You can't "wait" to tell the world about something you're making up, you can only "wait" to tell something that actually happened.

See how that works?

You, otoh, have accused her of making a false accusation. Yet you base this on nothing more than your own well-documented misogyny and an argument from incredulity. Evidently she's been raped too many times for your tastes and that somehow translates into a false accusation along with the fact that she's written a book:

Coming 23 years after the alleged fact and coinciding with a book she hopes to sell many copies of, this strikes me likely as a copycat allegation. Trump is very well known, hated by a large segment of the population, and subject to many other allegations.

It's amazing how telling one's story in a book is always attacked as a money grab, but the problem with your line of thinking is that the most profitable time for anyone wishing to run such a con would have been when he first ran for President and certainly not now after there have already been dozens of other proven allegations against him.

We know he molests women, grabs their pussies, fucks pornstars and is into golden showers. Hell his own third wife did porno and is a Russian asset ffs.

Plus, your own reactions are well known to any woman in the world, so exactly how does any of this alleged con and consequent invasion of her privacy on a massive and endless scale result in her being rich? Are any of the other dozens of women who told their stories rich?

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

ETA: And it's always the same attacks.

I'm telling my story.

Why did you wait so long? The fact that you waited means it's suspect. I imagine that anyone going through what you claim you went through would not wait to tell anyone and I'm important, so whatever I imagine is the hurdle you need to jump.

I didn't "wait." Regardless, I'm telling my story to the general public now.

In a BOOK! Which is suspect because that means you just want money and are therefore lying, because anyone who wants money will lie to get it.

I'm not lying. Why would I lie and subject myself to all of this hatred, derision and scrutiny? He's the POTUS, ffs.

That's why you're lying. You wouldn't be the first. I don't just accept something to be true. Where's your evidence?

It's in my book.

Well what about all the other obvious kneejerk bullshit that I can hurl at you so I don't have to actually dig any deeper or read your book? If you haven't provided me, personally, with the evidence I personally will accept, then you're lying and just out to extort money.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No, I very clearly do not. You have constructed a false equivalence in order to stuff a strawman. What a surprise.

That is not so, a mere accusation does not mean that the accusation is truthful.

Which has zero to do with what I wrote, which was in response to Jimmy's question as to why an alleged (happy?) victim might wait. Rape victims don't "wait" to report, like they're holding something back for the perfect opportunity. It's simply the wrong way to think of what is going on.

As to this particular accusation, if it is false, then logic dictates she hasn't "waited" for anything, because, if it is false, then that means nothing ever happened. You can't "wait" to tell the world about something you're making up, you can only "wait" to tell something that actually happened.

See how that works?

You, otoh, have accused her of making a false accusation. Yet you base this on nothing more than your own well-documented misogyny and an argument from incredulity. Evidently she's been raped too many times for your tastes and that somehow translates into a false accusation along with the fact that she's written a book:

Coming 23 years after the alleged fact and coinciding with a book she hopes to sell many copies of, this strikes me likely as a copycat allegation. Trump is very well known, hated by a large segment of the population, and subject to many other allegations.

It's amazing how telling one's story in a book is always attacked as a money grab, but the problem with your line of thinking is that the most profitable time for anyone wishing to run such a con would have been when he first ran for President and certainly not now after there have already been dozens of other proven allegations against him.

We know he molests women, grabs their pussies, fucks pornstars and is into golden showers. Hell his own third wife did porno and is a Russian asset ffs.

Plus, your own reactions are well known to any woman in the world, so exactly how does any of this alleged con and consequent invasion of her privacy on a massive and endless scale result in her being rich? Are any of the other dozens of women who told their stories rich?

Dude, why are you even trying to have this discussion with Derec? Short of being on video (and even then he has argued otherwise), there is no such thing as a reliable rape accusation for Derec.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Dude, why are you even trying to have this discussion with Derec? Short of being on video (and even then he has argued otherwise), there is no such thing as a reliable rape accusation for Derec.

Good point.

 

[Toni]

She is trying to sell books. And in the circles she moves in, Trump is so hated, she will not get any criticisms, just praise.



Yes, rapes do happen. That doesn't mean that every rape allegation is automatically truthful. I do not buy Trump would have raped somebody in a dressing room of a fancy store. Or that they did not have any sales associates within a shouting distance. The story lacks verisimilitude. A does the idea that a woman who was allegedly sexually assaulted about ten times previously would be so careless.

And Derec, just because women criticize men who are sexual predators, doesn't mean that we hate men. I love men. I'm married to a man. I raised a son. I have many male friends. But, I also know that a certain percentage of men are sexual predators. That's just a fact of life.

This woman wrote a book titled "What are men good for - a modest proposal". The original "modest proposal" was about killing and eating Irish babies btw.

Here’s the thing: Trump certainly would not have considered it rape but as something he was entitled to do. He assumed consent because he was rich and famous—he’s on tape bragging about that mindset, that entitlement. Other women have described similar assaults/attempts with very little privacy to give him cover—that’s how secure he feels.

Note that she does not consider this attack on the level of what she knows many women experience. She grew up in an era when women did not speak of such things—they buried it and moved on.

I know you don’t understand this, but I do.

 

[repoman]

This whole pissing thing is not advisable to bring up as a point, you have a wealth of things that are credible and you throw that in?

Again, if you make this more than about women then you can bring even a misogynist Trump supporter to grips that Trump also views him as a man as expendable.

Trump loves no one. Is he even worse than a misogynist who tries to be emotionally supportive to men only? I would say so.

I think Trump is a true misanthrope, not the teenager who hates the flaws of people and the messed up society that people have made, I think he hates the virtues of people.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

This whole pissing thing is not advisable to bring up as a point, you have a wealth of things that are credible and you throw that in?

What's not credible about the idea that Trump watched prostitutes pee on each other? This has been well established by both the Steele dossier and the Mueller report. Trump even referred to it as "the golden showers-thing" according to Comey:

In his book, A Higher Loyalty, James Comey wrote that after he briefed Trump, the then-president-elect asked him to investigate and prove the report was a lie. “He brought up what he called the ‘golden showers thing’…adding that it bothered him if there was ‘even a one percent chance’ his wife, Melania, thought it was true,” Comey writes. “He just rolled on, unprompted, explaining why it couldn’t possibly be true, ending by saying he was thinking of asking me to investigate the allegation to prove it was a lie. I said it was up to him.”

It's Trump's words, not mine.

Again, if you make this more than about women then you can bring even a misogynist Trump supporter to grips that Trump also views him as a man as expendable.

There is no bringing a Trump supporter or a misogynist to grips with this. They are incapable of grasping anything other than their limp, tiny dicks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What's not credible about the idea that Trump watched prostitutes pee on each other? This has been well established by both the Steele dossier and the Mueller report.

What isn't credible is that Koy and the left-wing have brought little else up, other than ShowerGate. All of Trump's other well established acts have been brought up... including his Bromance with Kim Jong Un, issues with emoluments, historical understaffing, and his abuse of lying.

Whether a tape showing ShowerGate exists isn't known for certainty. The Mueller Report hedges on it... BUT... there are indications such a tape does exist.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

What's not credible about the idea that Trump watched prostitutes pee on each other? This has been well established by both the Steele dossier and the Mueller report.

What isn't credible is that Koy and the left-wing have brought little else up, other than ShowerGate.

Wtf are you talking about? You are the one focusing exclusively on "showergate." I merely mentioned it along with several other things:

We know he molests women, grabs their pussies, fucks pornstars and is into golden showers.

 

[Derec]

Again, there's a pattern of behavior.

Again, pattern of behavior can work both ways. It can inspire somebody to make up claims that conform to the real or perceived pattern.

I may have mentioned it before, but I knew someone who was on his show as a contestant. This was before it became the "D List Celebrity Apprentice." He was a creep. As I recall, she said he told her that she was pretty, but "we gotta do something about those" and pointed at her chest. That's the sort of person he is. The Access Hollywood tape was a window into how he views women. He wasn't joking.

This isn't like the "well he always seemed like a quiet, nice person" case of the guy who turns out to be a serial killer. This is nobody being the least bit surprised that he tried to rape someone in a dressing room. Along with the women who have come forward, there's a lot of others who are nodding their heads and saying "yeah, that's the guy I met."

Is that enough to prosecute him for this incident? No, but it should be enough to disqualify him for the Presidency. Hell, it would disqualify him to be a mid level manager at any company with a semi-competent HR department.

Yes, Trump is an ass. Everybody knows that. But that does not prove he actually raped that particular woman in that particular department store.
The woman capitalizing on the 'pattern of behavior' in order to sell books fits the facts just as well.