At least 8 dead in Mass Shooting du Jour

[Elixir]

The only two suicides that Loren is aware of, weren't that bad. Wanna tackle homelessness next?

Nonetheless Loren seems VERY concerned about it. So much so that he warns me of my exposure to suicide because it’s not an independent variable from gang activity or being white.

Nonsensical as hell, but the fact remains that while suicide by handgun seems to be the predominant type of gun death, I feel zero threat from that. Nor am I afraid of getting shot in a robbery.

But I do feel threatened by Trumpsucking morons brandishing AR15s. I’m sure some of them would love to shoot me for some of the very mean, very unfair things I’ve said about their Orange Jesus - if they thought they’d get away with it. Which they might, if their boy is re-elected.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

My daughter, and the children of most people, have to practice lockdown drills at their schools because people like Loren thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I remember back when mass shootings at school were very rare.

 

[Elixir]

My daughter, and the children of most people, have to practice lockdown drills at their schools because people like Loren thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I remember back when mass shootings at school were very rare.

That’s so sad.

Someone needs to let those kids know that yeah, they might get shot at their little desk, but they need to consider the ten other people who committed suicide at the same time. We can thank all the active shooter mass murderers for bringing the suicide concern to the forefront.

Making little kids consider suicide victims should reduce the psychological damage of active shooter drills to a nominal level, and insulate them from the shock in the EXTREMELY UNLIKELY event that they survive an active shooter event that takes most of their friends.

I am beyond disgusted.

 

[laughing dog]

My daughter, and the children of most people, have to practice lockdown drills at their schools because people like Loren thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I remember back when mass shootings at school were very rare.

Why shouldn't children have to practice lock down drills because some people are so effing frightened of life around them that they have to hold onto their semi-automatic or automatic weaponry. Really, why are you only thinking of your child?

 

[Derec]

Not quite, it means you reckoned it as likely.

Saying something is likely implies uncertainty.

You said it was multiple groups.

Nitpick.

Seems is not the same as guessing.

Educated guess.

 

[Derec]

Why do you think gang? I see nothing in that article to suggest it's gang related.

Their ages. Around here when there is a shooting involving older teens, it's almost always gang related.

 

[Derec]

You've provided two examples, of which I'm thankful. So is there a statistic on the number of murders that went punished in a manner not respective to the crime?

I am not aware of disinterested stats in that regard, no.

 

[Derec]

Lulz! Robbers don’t want trouble, they want stuff and money.

That's thieves. Thieves don't want trouble.
Robbers by definition use violence or threat of violence to rob you, often using weapons.
Holding somebody at gunpoint is not good way to avoid trouble.

I’ve never been willing to expend my life to get stuff and money, and I’m not going to kill myself to keep it.

Doesn't mean that the robber will not shoot you anyway. Plenty of cases where robbery victims were shot even after cooperating. Many of them are on drugs, young (and thus more likely to be hotheaded) or both.
Which is why it always warms the cockles of my heart when tables get turned on these scumbags.

 

[Derec]

Over here we have this completely crazy legal principle that says that nobody can be "tried as an adult", unless they are (and this may shock you), an actual adult.

Over here minors over a certain age can be tried as adults for certain crimes, but it varies by state. Note that even when charged as adults, their age is taken into account in sentencing.
The problem is that the juvenile system is wholly inadequate for teenagers who commit serious crimes. We probably need an in-between category for 13-17 year old offenders. They are not quite adults, but they are not children either.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Not quite, it means you reckoned it as likely.

Saying something is likely implies uncertainty.

You said it was multiple groups.

Nitpick.

Seems is not the same as guessing.

Educated guess.

None of those responses absolve you from making your case: (a) reckoning something is likely means show your reasoning and (b) an education guess still means provide justification. And furthermore, no, it's not a nitpick, you went to provide your justification as you ought to have done, but your justification was based on false information and so I showed it was false and now you are calling it a nitpick. So, now you are back to the beginning and still have therefore not justified your claim that it seems like a gang.

 

[Derec]

Personally, I think that so called assault rifles should be banned

Assault rifles are already heavily regulated for civilian use. Assault rifles are military rifles capable of selective fire.
They should not be confused with "assault weapons", a largely meaningless term for certain civilian semiautomatic rifles.

because of the fact that they are sometimes used for mass shootings, such as at schools, churches, mosques, movie theaters, night clubs, malls and concert venues.

So are handguns, shotguns and non-assaulty rifles.

They are capable of committing mass murders of mostly strangers by disturbed individuals seeking notoriety or because they have some sort of grudge against their targets.

Same goes for other types of firearms, or even knives as the guy in Bondi demonstrated.

High capacity rifles have no genuine utility in the civilian world and a large capacity for causing death and destruction.

High capacity mags can be fitten on handguns as well.

And again, far more people are killed with handguns than with rifles of any type. Hell, more people are killed using "hands, fists and feet" than with rifles!

I made a choice long ago to not learn to hunt or to use firearms but I see that as a personal choice.

So what do you use? Bow and arrow? That's hardcore!

I think concealed carry should also be illegal, along with open carry. All firearms should be registered and gun ownership should require certification of firearm safety courses.

I agree with registration and licensing. I think banning all carry is going too far though.

 

[Derec]

Juveniles convicted as adults are imprisoned with adults. In my view that is a sufficient reason not to treat a juvenile as an adult except under rare circumstances.

I am talking about juveniles who have committed serious crimes such as murder, often under orders by a gang.
Such juveniles are a danger to other young people in juvi as well as the guards.

As I told bilby, we probably need a third, in-between category of criminal justice for minor teens. And maybe something like maximum security juvi where these people can be warehoused until they are 18 and transferred to the adult system.

 

[laughing dog]

Juveniles convicted as adults are imprisoned with adults. In my view that is a sufficient reason not to treat a juvenile as an adult except under rare circumstances.

I am talking about juveniles who have committed serious crimes such as murder, often under orders by a gang.
Such juveniles are a danger to other young people in juvi.

As I told bilby, we probably need a third, in-between category of criminal justice for minor teens. And maybe something like maximum security juvi where these people can be warehoused until they are 18 and transferred to the adult system.

But we don’t have it. We aren’t likely to have it. And way too many juveniles are tried snd sentenced as adults.

Even dangerous juveniles are still juveniles. Putting them with dangerous adults is inhumane and just plain nuts.

 

[Toni]

Juveniles convicted as adults are imprisoned with adults. In my view that is a sufficient reason not to treat a juvenile as an adult except under rare circumstances.

I am talking about juveniles who have committed serious crimes such as murder, often under orders by a gang.
Such juveniles are a danger to other young people in juvi as well as the guards.

As I told bilby, we probably need a third, in-between category of criminal justice for minor teens. And maybe something like maximum security juvi where these people can be warehoused until they are 18 and transferred to the adult system.

Yeah. We really should not be warehousing people, period. Don’t get me wrong. I am well aware that if I had the chance, there are individuals fir whom I’d be more than happy to pull that levee dispensing lethal doses over and over and over again, and watch their faces as I did it.

Which is how I know how absolutely wrong that is.

But so is just warehousing people. We can and must do better than that. Essentially we seem to be willing to throw away people who do something terrible. Sometimes even if they didn’t mean to do it. And even if we got the wrong person.

That says something about us as a society that I just cannot abide. Everybody deserves a chance at redemption.

 

[robnisch]

I should not have brought up suicide, my bad. However, easy access to guns is a major factor in the number of suicides.

My anecdote: I lost a niece from a gun accident that a felon got her to buy for him. He got probation.

 

[Tigers!]

My daughter, and the children of most people, have to practice lockdown drills at their schools because people like Loren thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I remember back when mass shootings at school were very rare.

My niece's children have to do such drills in New Jersey it seems.
Her oldest asked their (great) uncle "Why do we do these drills? Didn't need to do them in Australia."
I have no answer except to say under my breath that Yanks are so stupid in some areas.

 

[Tigers!]

Even dangerous juveniles are still juveniles. Putting them with dangerous adults is inhumane and just plain nuts.

The collory is that dangerous juveniles are still dangerous.

 

[Elixir]

Even dangerous juveniles are still juveniles. Putting them with dangerous adults is inhumane and just plain nuts.

The collory is that dangerous juveniles are still dangerous.

So putting them in with dangerous adults is just and proper?
Sounds dangerous to me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Again we must talk about 53% of gun deaths are suicide.

U.S. Rate of Suicide by Firearm Reaches Record Level

Gun suicides increased from prepandemic rates in all racial and ethnic groups, but the degree of change differed drastically.

www.nytimes.com

Red flag law? Better mental health care?

Red Flag isn't an answer--you'll likely end up precipitating the suicide rather than helping.

And we need to look at causes of suicide.

According to the statistics... guns.

No. Guns are the means, not the cause.

I am now aware of two suicides.

I'm pretty certain there are more than that.

I'm simply giving the sample space I know.

One was clearly for medical reasons--there's nothing the medical system could have done to change the fact that she was going to spend what little life she had left laying in bed. She chose not to. The second was elderly, she had managed alienate everyone near her except for her husband and then he died. The relationship is distant enough and she drove everyone away long enough ago that I wasn't even aware of her existence. Is there anything society could have done to improve her situation? I doubt it. (And that's not even considering the low opinion of mental health care in China.)

Well, there we go. The only two suicides that Loren is aware of, weren't that bad. Wanna tackle homelessness next?

I'm saying that in neither of those was there anything that society could have done to make them not want death.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

My daughter, and the children of most people, have to practice lockdown drills at their schools because people like Loren thought it wouldn't be that big of a deal. I remember back when mass shootings at school were very rare.

The problem is the infamy. Taking away the guns won't keep them from doing other things.