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At what margin of electoral defeat will Trump be forced to admit defeat?

:rotfl:

Man, you have really got to start reading your sources before you post them. This is the very next paragraph after the one you quoted:

Yes I read it. Also that: That it is likely that US corporations will continue to park money in tax-free countries such as Bermuda, the Bahamas and the Cayman Islands even as they create jobs in the US.

Allow me to remind you of what you actually said:
Pass national economic destruction policy like the estimated cost of the over 100 trillion USD GND? The corporate tax rate was reduced by the Trump administration in line with America's international economic competitors. Halting American corporations moving their operations and jobs to lower taxing countries. Great idea to undo most likely the most successful policy of the Trump administration! If enacted, it could spell what the Soviet Union failed to do........the destruction of USA!

It doesn't matter what our corporate tax rate is. As long as we have a corporate tax rate, they will shelter operations in countries that have no corporate tax rate. Those are not the same countries where they are sending their jobs, however, so there must be a different reason for that. I submit that the reason for that is that they have access to a large workforce that can be paid shit wages in those countries, but that is irrelevant, at least half of what you said is proven incorrect by the links you provided.

No mention of the dividends the shareholders of these corporations receive on their investments though!

Where you saying something about the dividends of shareholders? I must have missed the point you were trying to make there, can you link to where you made it?

By the way, do you know who/what a shareholder is? I doubt it, as commos stride for equality. Everyone shares the poverty equally.

I am a shareholder, so I would hope so. I assume by "commo" you mean communist, and I am not a communist, but then again you are wrong about nearly everything else you say, I shouldn't be surprised that you are wrong on that account as well.
 
People are talking about "Interim President Pelosi" if it isn't settled by inauguration day. No. She's third in line if there are vacancies from death, disability, or removal from office.

Uh, do you know what "interim" means? If there is no resolution by a vote of governors by 1/21/2020, Pelosi would become president, as the terms of both Trump and Pence would expire, removing them from office. The turn of the screw may depend on downballot results where no EC is involved. The 117th Congress will convene on Jan 3, 2021 and the disposition of the Presidential election may be up to them. But if no vote of Governors is held by 1/21, Pelosi would be next in line, pending that action.

The whole scenario is vanishingly unlikely, since the Republican Congress will hasten to try to reinstall Trump before they are sent home... unless some of the defeated ones suddenly decide to try to preserve their own honor in the eyes of history.
 
People are talking about "Interim President Pelosi" if it isn't settled by inauguration day. No. She's third in line if there are vacancies from death, disability, or removal from office.

Uh, do you know what "interim" means? If there is no resolution by a vote of governors by 1/21/2020, Pelosi would become president, as the terms of both Trump and Pence would expire, removing them from office. The turn of the screw may depend on downballot results where no EC is involved. The 117th Congress will convene on Jan 3, 2021 and the disposition of the Presidential election may be up to them. But if no vote of Governors is held by 1/21, Pelosi would be next in line, pending that action.

The whole scenario is vanishingly unlikely, since the Republican Congress will hasten to try to reinstall Trump before they are sent home... unless some of the defeated ones suddenly decide to try to preserve their own honor in the eyes of history.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
 
People are talking about "Interim President Pelosi" if it isn't settled by inauguration day. No. She's third in line if there are vacancies from death, disability, or removal from office.

Uh, do you know what "interim" means?

You snipped out this part.

The House convenes. The choose. You're probably thinking "yay, the House is majority Democrat" except that's not how it works. Each state submits one vote.

27 states have a slate that is majority Republican. 21 states have a slate that is majority Democrat. One state is evenly tied, and one state is 7 D, 6 R, 1 L.

The 117th Congress will convene on Jan 3, 2021 and the disposition of the Presidential election may be up to them.

Which means the House votes according to the 12th Amendment.
 
One cannot argue with a Marxist ideology if that person is a commo fundamentalist. It's like arguing with bible bashers. It's the reason why religions of all persuasion are still around even after science has made the idea of a deity obsolete.
 
One cannot argue with a Marxist ideology if that person is a commo fundamentalist. It's like arguing with bible bashers. It's the reason why religions of all persuasion are still around even after science has made the idea of a deity obsolete.


He says instead of actually responding to the post that shows he has been wrong about almost everything he has posted in this thread.
 
One cannot argue with a Marxist ideology if that person is a commo fundamentalist. It's like arguing with bible bashers. It's the reason why religions of all persuasion are still around even after science has made the idea of a deity obsolete.


What year do you think it is?
 
One cannot argue with a Marxist ideology if that person is a commo fundamentalist. It's like arguing with bible bashers. It's the reason why religions of all persuasion are still around even after science has made the idea of a deity obsolete.


What year do you think it is?


To be fair, I'm kind of jealous angelo isn't aware it's 2020.
 
One cannot argue with a Marxist ideology if that person is a commo fundamentalist. It's like arguing with bible bashers. It's the reason why religions of all persuasion are still around even after science has made the idea of a deity obsolete.


What year do you think it is?


Well, it has to be prior to 1989, and likely prior to 1969, if you're expecting to meet any devoted Marxist-Leninists. But if you're expecting that Fascism will save the world from Communism, then your ideas went seriously out of fashion around 1939.
 
One cannot argue with a Marxist ideology if that person is a commo fundamentalist. It's like arguing with bible bashers. It's the reason why religions of all persuasion are still around even after science has made the idea of a deity obsolete.


One can't successfully argue with fanatics, period. Whether they're Bible thumpers, commies, Islamists or even Trumpets.
 
Roger Stone calls for Trump to seize total power if he loses the election

Stone also said federal authorities should seize all Nevada ballots, federal agents and GOP state officials should “physically” block voting, that Trump should nationalize police forces, and that Trump should order widespread arrests

Roger Stone is making baseless accusations of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election and is urging Donald Trump to consider several draconian measures to stay in power, including having federal authorities seize ballots in Nevada, having FBI agents and Republican state officials “physically” block voting under the pretext of preventing voter fraud, using martial law or the Insurrection Act to carry out widespread arrests, and nationalizing state police forces.

Stone, a longtime confidant of the president, made the comments during a September 10 appearance on far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’ Infowars network. On July 10, Trump commuted a 40-month prison sentence that was handed down to Stone after he was convicted of lying to Congress and tampering with witnesses as part of special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe into 2016 election interference. Namely, Stone lied to Congress about his contacts with WikiLeaks, which released hacked emails with the aim of boosting Trump’s prospects. In the weeks leading up to the commutation, Stone made a number of media appearances where he asked Trump to grant him clemency and said that in exchange, he could be a more effective campaigner for the president’s 2020 reelection efforts.

Nope, we don't need to worry about fascists.
 
More about the potential 12th Amendment solution.

As it stands now, 27 state delegations are Republican and 21 are Democratic. One is evenly tied, and one is split 3 ways but is 50% Democratic. If the vote were taken right now it would be a Republican victory, but that is not all there is.

If there are contested House races, it falls within the power of the House to vote on which person to seat. The obvious contender are the states where the delegation is already 50%, MI and PA. Then CO and FL both have an odd number of Representatives AND are 50%+1 Republican, meaning that one seat switched would lead to them being 50%+1 Democrat.

That does only bring the count to 25 to 25, evenly tied. It requires four contested races being decided in the House, so it isn't enough to get 26. So that leaves some states with a bigger margin to overcome.

There are 5 states that have only one Representative: AK, MT, ND, SD, WY. Unfortunately they are all very solidly red states, a contested race there would be quite obviously a setup. Then there are states where you need two seats to switch: ID, KS, MS, NE, SC, UT, WV, and WI. Again they are all Red states, having two seats up for grabs that way in any one of them also is a little hard to envision.

Still, that leaves 13 options, so maybe one of them could be worked to give the Democrats a 26-24 advantage in the House.
 
More about the potential 12th Amendment solution.

As it stands now, 27 state delegations are Republican and 21 are Democratic. One is evenly tied, and one is split 3 ways but is 50% Democratic. If the vote were taken right now it would be a Republican victory, but that is not all there is.

If there are contested House races, it falls within the power of the House to vote on which person to seat. The obvious contender are the states where the delegation is already 50%, MI and PA. Then CO and FL both have an odd number of Representatives AND are 50%+1 Republican, meaning that one seat switched would lead to them being 50%+1 Democrat.

That does only bring the count to 25 to 25, evenly tied. It requires four contested races being decided in the House, so it isn't enough to get 26. So that leaves some states with a bigger margin to overcome.

There are 5 states that have only one Representative: AK, MT, ND, SD, WY. Unfortunately they are all very solidly red states, a contested race there would be quite obviously a setup. Then there are states where you need two seats to switch: ID, KS, MS, NE, SC, UT, WV, and WI. Again they are all Red states, having two seats up for grabs that way in any one of them also is a little hard to envision.

Still, that leaves 13 options, so maybe one of them could be worked to give the Democrats a 26-24 advantage in the House.

That's interesting all right. What if it is a tie at the end of the day?
But you still haven't posited a margin of victory that might cause Trump to concede. Since that is the OP question, why don't you venture a guess?
I have noticed that all our "I'm not a Trumpsucker"s have fallen very silent on that question in the last couple of weeks.
 
More about the potential 12th Amendment solution.

As it stands now, 27 state delegations are Republican and 21 are Democratic. One is evenly tied, and one is split 3 ways but is 50% Democratic. If the vote were taken right now it would be a Republican victory, but that is not all there is.

If there are contested House races, it falls within the power of the House to vote on which person to seat. The obvious contender are the states where the delegation is already 50%, MI and PA. Then CO and FL both have an odd number of Representatives AND are 50%+1 Republican, meaning that one seat switched would lead to them being 50%+1 Democrat.

That does only bring the count to 25 to 25, evenly tied. It requires four contested races being decided in the House, so it isn't enough to get 26. So that leaves some states with a bigger margin to overcome.

There are 5 states that have only one Representative: AK, MT, ND, SD, WY. Unfortunately they are all very solidly red states, a contested race there would be quite obviously a setup. Then there are states where you need two seats to switch: ID, KS, MS, NE, SC, UT, WV, and WI. Again they are all Red states, having two seats up for grabs that way in any one of them also is a little hard to envision.

Still, that leaves 13 options, so maybe one of them could be worked to give the Democrats a 26-24 advantage in the House.

That's interesting all right. What if it is a tie at the end of the day?
But you still haven't posited a margin of victory that might cause Trump to concede. Since that is the OP question, why don't you venture a guess?
I have noticed that all our "I'm not a Trumpsucker"s have fallen very silent on that question in the last couple of weeks.

Well, according to you, no margin of victory for Biden will cause Trump to concede, so I guess that's the answer.

Now what to do if there is a 25-25 tie. We would start with the 12th Amendment, only to find it has been updated with the 20th Amendment. Not only does the 20th Amendment move inauguration day from March to January, it tells us what happens if the House cannot come to a conclusion.

The House selects the President Elect, the Senate selects the Vice President Elect. Barring any major change to the Senate, which is less volatile than the House, that means they will probably choose Vice President Pence as Vice President Elect. That's important to know if the House cannot reach a conclusion by inauguration day.

If the House cannot decide by inauguration day, the Vice President Elect becomes the acting President until either the House or the Electoral College can reach an actual conclusion. That places Pence in charge until the mess is resolved.
 
Well, according to you, no margin of victory for Biden will cause Trump to concede, so I guess that's the answer.

I already know what I think... I was asking what you thought. Should have remembered - libberpublicans don't think.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Well, according to you, no margin of victory for Biden will cause Trump to concede, so I guess that's the answer.
he was responding to Elixir, so "you" is Elixir in that quote.
They are asking what, according to YOU (Jason), the margin of victory must be. You said what, according to Elixir, the margin of victory must be.. unless you have conceded your brain to him and he owns your thoughts, you have failed to express your own.

My answer to Elixir's question is the same as Elixir's... no margin of victory will cause him to concede... he will fight anything and everything regardless of the potential outcomes or ramifications of pissing into the wind. he has "I'll see you in court" tattooed on his tongue.
 
From Barton Gellman of the Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/

But Trump’s supporters aren’t the only people who think extra*constitutional thoughts aloud. Trump has been asked directly, during both this campaign and the last, whether he will respect the election results. He left his options brazenly open. “What I’m saying is that I will tell you at the time. I’ll keep you in suspense. Okay?” he told moderator Chris Wallace in the third presidential debate of 2016. Wallace took another crack at him in an interview for Fox News this past July. “I have to see,” Trump said. “Look, you—I have to see. No, I’m not going to just say yes. I’m not going to say no.”


How will he decide when the time comes? Trump has answered that, actually. At a rally in Delaware, Ohio, in the closing days of the 2016 campaign, he began his performance with a signal of breaking news. “Ladies and gentlemen, I want to make a major announcement today. I would like to promise and pledge to all of my voters and supporters, and to all the people of the United States, that I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election.” He paused, then made three sharp thrusts of his forefinger to punctuate the next words: “If … I … win!” Only then did he stretch his lips in a simulacrum of a smile.

The question is not strictly hypothetical. Trump’s respect for the ballot box has already been tested. In 2016, with the presidency in hand, having won the Electoral College, Trump baldly rejected the certified tallies that showed he had lost the popular vote by a margin of 2,868,692. He claimed, baselessly but not coincidentally, that at least 3 million undocumented immigrants had cast fraudulent votes for Hillary Clinton.[/quote

...

The interregnum allots 35 days for the count and its attendant lawsuits to be resolved. On the 36th day, December 8, an important deadline arrives.

At this stage, the actual tabulation of the vote becomes less salient to the outcome. That sounds as though it can’t be right, but it is: The combatants, especially Trump, will now shift their attention to the appointment of presidential electors.

December 8 is known as the “safe harbor” deadline for appointing the 538 men and women who make up the Electoral College. The electors do not meet until six days later, December 14, but each state must appoint them by the safe-harbor date to guarantee that Congress will accept their credentials. The controlling statute says that if “any controversy or contest” remains after that, then Congress will decide which electors, if any, may cast the state’s ballots for president.

We are accustomed to choosing electors by popular vote, but nothing in the Constitution says it has to be that way. Article II provides that each state shall appoint electors “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.” Since the late 19th century, every state has ceded the decision to its voters. Even so, the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that a state “can take back the power to appoint electors.” How and when a state might do so has not been tested for well over a century.

Trump may test this. According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on claims of rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires.
 
From Barton Gellman of the Atlantic https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/

But Trump’s supporters aren’t the only people who think extra*constitutional thoughts aloud. Trump has been asked directly, during both this campaign and the last, whether he will respect the election results. He left his options brazenly open. “What I’m saying is that I will tell you at the time. I’ll keep you in suspense. Okay?” he told moderator Chris Wallace in the third presidential debate of 2016. Wallace took another crack at him in an interview for Fox News this past July. “I have to see,” Trump said. “Look, you—I have to see. No, I’m not going to just say yes. I’m not going to say no.”


How will he decide when the time comes? Trump has answered that, actually. At a rally in Delaware, Ohio, in the closing days of the 2016 campaign, he began his performance with a signal of breaking news. “Ladies and gentlemen, I want to make a major announcement today. I would like to promise and pledge to all of my voters and supporters, and to all the people of the United States, that I will totally accept the results of this great and historic presidential election.” He paused, then made three sharp thrusts of his forefinger to punctuate the next words: “If … I … win!” Only then did he stretch his lips in a simulacrum of a smile.

The question is not strictly hypothetical. Trump’s respect for the ballot box has already been tested. In 2016, with the presidency in hand, having won the Electoral College, Trump baldly rejected the certified tallies that showed he had lost the popular vote by a margin of 2,868,692. He claimed, baselessly but not coincidentally, that at least 3 million undocumented immigrants had cast fraudulent votes for Hillary Clinton.[/quote

...

The interregnum allots 35 days for the count and its attendant lawsuits to be resolved. On the 36th day, December 8, an important deadline arrives.

At this stage, the actual tabulation of the vote becomes less salient to the outcome. That sounds as though it can’t be right, but it is: The combatants, especially Trump, will now shift their attention to the appointment of presidential electors.

December 8 is known as the “safe harbor” deadline for appointing the 538 men and women who make up the Electoral College. The electors do not meet until six days later, December 14, but each state must appoint them by the safe-harbor date to guarantee that Congress will accept their credentials. The controlling statute says that if “any controversy or contest” remains after that, then Congress will decide which electors, if any, may cast the state’s ballots for president.

We are accustomed to choosing electors by popular vote, but nothing in the Constitution says it has to be that way. Article II provides that each state shall appoint electors “in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.” Since the late 19th century, every state has ceded the decision to its voters. Even so, the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that a state “can take back the power to appoint electors.” How and when a state might do so has not been tested for well over a century.

Trump may test this. According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on claims of rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires.

Yes, just reading several articles on that. The question is whether the courts would actually allow that. Even a trump appointee such as Gorsuch, and I think Roberts too would balk at such a blatant power grab. But they may try to punt. Expect huge riots if that happens. Wall Street will collapse, even a potential military balking at taking Trump’s orders. The whole shebang could really bust up. We really could be heading to a civil war. Seriously.
 
Wall Street will collapse...

It is already showing signs of a slow, halting collapse. But I don't know of any safe harbor - if it really tanks, it's going to drag down bonds, real estate and virtually everything else with it, due to four years of the weakening of our economy's underpinnings. Consumer confidence won't recover overnight, regardless of electoral results. There will be food shortages, major bankruptcies, soup lines and riots. America will have finally arrived at its well-earned position as a true shithole.
 
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