Black Jogger Gunned Down In The Street

[rousseau]

Racism is solved for the most part.

I'd attempt to get through to you, but you've demonstrated an unwillingness to listen to every appeal to reason provided to you over the past 5 - 10 years at this forum, so I'm just going to let you believe whatever it is that makes you happy.

I can understand a bit of distaste for people who aren't like you if you live in a dangerous area where those people are a risk to you. Fair enough. But at least make an attempt to understand the history and reality of races, ethnicities, and genders other than your own. Making claims like 'racism is solved' just makes you sound incredibly ignorant.

 

[Derec]

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that if you take any living animal and put them in dire economic conditions they will need to fight for survival.

How about maybe graduating high school? That's a real low bar, but still too high for way too many.

Of course the economic prospects of high school are going to be bleak. But pretty much everybody can graduate high school if they apply themselves just a little!

How do you expect anybody living in a ghetto to survive without getting violent?

That's just ridiculous apologia for violent criminals as long as they have the preferred skin color.

I guess you agree with the girl from this thread too.
How he gonna get his money?

 

[Derec]

I'd attempt to get through to you, but you've demonstrated an unwillingness to listen to every appeal to reason provided to you over the past 5 - 10 years at this forum, so I'm just going to let you believe whatever it is that makes you happy.

And I attempted to get through to you by demonstrating the falsehood of the outdated ideas that you hold. Like you claim that whites control business, schools and politics even though there are many black people in leadership positions in all these realms.

I can understand a bit of distaste for people who aren't like you if you live in a dangerous area where those people are a risk to you.

I do not have any distaste for people who do not look like me. I do have an distaste for race-baiters like you no matter their skin color.

But at least make an attempt to understand the history and reality of races, ethnicities, and genders other than your own. Making claims like 'racism is solved' just makes you sound incredibly ignorant.

History is about the past. Important to know of course, and I know the history, but I think you (and US racial discourse in general) is stuck in the 1960s for the most part, which is a pitty.
People like you still think George Wallace is a more immediate reality than Barack Obama.

 

[Arctish]

Two men involved in fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery Have Been Arrested

(CNN) — Two men involved in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery near Brunswick, Georgia, have been arrested and face murder and aggravated assault charges, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

 

[Derec]

You don't sound like you're taking my post seriously at all, you're just spinning off the first point that comes to mind as a rebuttal. This is because you're an uninformed racist and have no interest in reality.

This really applies to you. You ignore all the facts I present to you like those about crime rates.

I have nothing against white people, but I am aware that black people face systemic disadvantages in the U.S. in 2020. This is plainly obvious.

Like the "systemic disadvantage" of needing significantly lower grades and MCAT scores to get into med schools?

Oh, my bad! That would be an systemic advantage!

 

[rousseau]

Derec there is literally a fallacy behind every single thing you've said in this thread. Either you're being disingenuous or you're really this oblivious to reality.

At this point I'm going to go with disingenuous, so I'm out. This conversation isn't worth my time.

 

[Derec]

Two men involved in fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery Have Been Arrested

(CNN) — Two men involved in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery near Brunswick, Georgia, have been arrested and face murder and aggravated assault charges, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Classic overcharging due to mob pressure. It should be manslaughter. Also what happened to the grand jury?
And I suspect that if it turns out Arbery was really the burglar (not unlikely given his shoplifting conviction from 2018), then more likely then not they get acquitted.

 

[Derec]

At this point I'm going to go with disingenuous, so I'm out. This conversation isn't worth my time.

I think the same about you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

 

[rousseau]

At this point I'm going to go with disingenuous, so I'm out. This conversation isn't worth my time.

I think the same about you. Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

It wasn't an ad-hom, it was an observation about your arguments.

 

[Derec]

and most crime committed against white people is by other white people.

True as far as it goes. But the homicide rate by white people is 5-6 times lower than for black people. So there are far fewer perpetrators and victims of white-on-white killings. See this article by Nate Silver.
Black Americans Are Killed At 12 Times The Rate Of People In Other Developed Countries
And that's not because of racism by white people, no matter how much race-baiters like rousseau want to blame us for actions of black perps.

Criminals don't tend to commute long distances, preferring the people in their area.

On the other hand, when it comes to interracial homicides, blacks kill twice as many white people than vice versa. And yet the common misconception is that somehow white people are killing blacks en masse. See this ridiculous statement by LeBron James.
LeBron James enraged by the shooting death of an unarmed 25-year-old black man in southern Georgia, says: 'We're literally hunted everyday'

He claims that black people are "literally hunted everyday" by white people when reality is exactly the opposite. This is what racist misinformation spread by the likes of rousseau leads to.
More nonsense from the same article by NAACP - they claim that these two guys are "white supremacists" even though there is no evidence of that. And even though Arbery is being suspected of burglaries they do not mention that, insisting that he was just jogging.

 

[Derec]

It wasn't an ad-hom, it was an observation about your arguments.

Ditto.

 

[rousseau]

This is what I get for posting in a race related thread at talkfreethought.org, good night and good luck everyone.

 

[Derec]

Is it 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter?

I would say manslaughter since I do not think they would have fired had he not started to struggle for the shotgun.

And if he turns out to be the burglar, I think it is more likely than not they will be acquitted.

 

[Derec]

Really? So if two armed guys chase you down the street while you are out for a job

Could not happen to me because ...

Ok, it' really because I am a fatass.

and you grab a shotgun to keep from being shot with it, but you still get shot, it's manslaughter?????

Yes. I do not think he would have shot had Arbery not grabbed the barrel. Also, manslaughter is still a pretty serious crime.

Also, why is manslaughter the least level of criminal homicide? It sounds like the worst. Also something Hannibal Lector would do.

Or only if the dead guy is black and the guys with the shotguns are white?

Naw. If a white man burglarized somebody and two black guys chased him, I'd still think it was not murder. Stupid in either case, especially if they weren't sure he was the guy, but not murderous.

 

[Trausti]

Is it 2nd degree murder or voluntary manslaughter?

I would say manslaughter since I do not think they would have fired had he not started to struggle for the shotgun.

And if he turns out to be the burglar, I think it is more likely than not they will be acquitted.

That’s the thing. They didn’t see him committ a felony before going after him. At best, one of the people who called 911 saw s tresspass. But when is trespass a felony? And that caller didn’t chase him. The citizen’s arrest defense is really shaky here.

 

[Arctish]

Two men involved in fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery Have Been Arrested

(CNN) — Two men involved in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery near Brunswick, Georgia, have been arrested and face murder and aggravated assault charges, according to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Classic overcharging due to mob pressure. It should be manslaughter. Also what happened to the grand jury?

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is a state level branch of law enforcement. The grand jury was (is?) going to be convened at the county level.

And I suspect that if it turns out Arbery was really the burglar (not unlikely given his shoplifting conviction from 2018), then more likely then not they get acquitted.

And just like that, you decided to do a little research. That or else you're relying on some other site for your information.

Tell us more about these burglaries. The sites I've seen say there's only one on record from that area since the beginning of the year: the reported theft of an unsecured handgun from the shooter's truck. In what way did Arbery resemble the burglar?

 

[Derec]

If some random guy that you don't know cuts you off, then jumps out of his truck wielding a shotgun... Are you going to assume that this clearly-not-a-cop just want's to arrest you, and peacefully submit to the gun-wielding yahoo?

I think it depends. If he WAS the burglar, he would know the posse probably has to do with that. If he WASN'T then he would have to think the McMichaelses were up to no good.

 

[Derec]

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation is a state level branch of law enforcement. The grand jury was (is?) going to be convened at the county level.

Which is highly irregular. Is the AG going to bring charges overriding the local DA?

And just like that, you decided to do a little research.

I always do.

Tell us more about these burglaries. The sites I've seen say there's only one on record from that area since the beginning of the year: the reported theft of an unsecured handgun from the shooter's truck. In what way did Arbery resemble the burglar?

I don't know the details. The news story I saw it in mentioned "several" but did not go into details.
Leaving an unsecured firearm is certainly stupid, but does not exonerate the thief. As to in what way Arbery resembled the burglar, how the hell should I know? Maybe they saw him on camera.

 

[Derec]

That’s the thing. They didn’t see him committ a felony before going after him. At best, one of the people who called 911 saw s tresspass. But when is trespass a felony? And that caller didn’t chase him. The citizen’s arrest defense is really shaky here.

Could be. Which is why I went with "more likely than not", which leaves a lot of room for conviction too. Juries are unpredictable.

 

[Derec]

I point all of this out, of course, because someone will likely claim next that the McMichael's feared Arbery was the one who stole Travis' gun and thus was possibly armed with it two months later when he went jogging, in spite of the fact that whoever took the weapon inexplicably left the holster. That would seriously indicate that whoever did take it, already had a holster for a 9 mm. But who would already have a holster and not a gun unless it was someone who had several such weapons and multiple holsters. Iow, likely not Arbery, but someone in McMichael's neighborhood.

That's pure speculation. Especially since you don't necessarily need a holster.