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Black Woman calling a White Woman a "Karen"

Funny how suddenly words are so terrible and hurtful to bigots but black people should just get over brutality and oppression.

Do try and stick to the point you are responding to. I am not saying anything like that. Obviously it's nowhere near as bad a thing as many other things. I am just pointing out that it is a pejorative term with a racial and gender aspect to it, and like all such pejorative terms, it will get used in situations where the original behaviour that led to it being adopted in one of its recent incarnations (ie racist behaviour) is not necessarily present. This isn't even up for grabs by any reasonable standard. So if you or anyone wants to say, "ok, but it's not really a big deal in my opinion", that's fine, but a slightly separate point.
 
Chicago mayor Lori Lightfoot, called Keighliegh McCanney (white house press secretary) a "Karen" .

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/17/us/lori-lightfoot-chicago-karen-mcenany-trnd/index.html

Karen is most commonly referring to the Amy Cooper who called out a black man bird watching as threatening and referring to white woman as privileged.

I have heard that white people are saying that calling someone a "Karen", is a racial slur. I didn't know it had progressed this far in a few short months.

Personally I would think calling any female a Karen (whatever skin color), is not a racial slur but more as in a whiny Beeotch.

Thoughts?

It's not a racial slur. It's not even sexist. You hit it on the head, it is about whiney bitches. The difference in this situation is that a Karen is normally calling the authorities while being a whiney bitch, and the press secretary is not doing that. Given that, I don't think it was appropriate to call her a Karen, but I suppose meaning can shift rapidly with this kind of thing, so whatever...

Bullshit that it isn't a gendered pejorative. Of course it's gendered, and yes, it has a racial implication. This is easy to see if there were a similar pejorative that used a stereotypically black, female name, e.g. Shaniqua, to mean something unsavory.


I don't think it is a big deal, but then again, I'm pretty consistent that many slurs, be they gendered or even slightly racially tinged, aren't a big deal. At least, in certain contexts (and can become big deals in other contexts, say, an employer saying them to an employee).

It's gendered because calling a man a "Karen" would sound stupid. They're called "Ken" or "Kevin".
 
There's clearly a racial aspect to it, but racial isn't "racist". Karen's aren't labeled as such and ridiculed b/c they are white. Most white women aren't called Karen, and even most actual Karens are not presumed to be figurative "Karens". The name isn't itself strongly racially connected prior to the present meme, so it wasn't selected for a racial connection. It was selected b/c it's so generic and mundane, which is why comparisons to names like Tyrone and Shaniqua are invalid. Not only are their many black actual Karens, some of them have made a career critiquing the very sort of middle class self entitlement, privilege, and racism that the Karen meme refers to. It refers to women who use their presumed superior social status to call the authorities (cops or managers) on those they view as inferior, confident the authorities will recognize their Karen superiority and punish the transgressor. Such presumptions and faith that authorities will side with them isn't common among non-white women in America, for good rational reasons. And calling cops b/c a person is assumed suspicious by being black is the epitome of the concept. So given the racial aspects of the psychological presumptions and often racist behavior that define a "Karen", the concept being applied largely to white women who behave a particular way is logical consequence.

Note that one of the potential origins of the concept comes from Mean Girls when a very privileged ignorant white girl named Karen says to another white girl at school, "So, if your from Africa, why are you white?" It is particular observed behavior that is the determinant of whether one is a Karen rather than race or the name itself being used to assume the behavior based on a stereotype.
 
I am totally perplexed as to why some people are arguing the toss over this. It is de facto a case of a pejorative term having a slight negative racial and sexist aspect.

It’s a relatively lightweight example yes, and not of the same type as some others (does not apply to all white women for example, and existed before its most recent incarnation) but that’s hardly the initial point, which is that it is used as a pejorative term with a negative racial and sexist component.

After that, it can be said that it’s not that serious an issue really, compared to many others.
 
I am totally perplexed as to why some people are arguing the toss over this. It is de facto a case of a pejorative term having a slight negative racial and sexist aspect. That’s a fact.

I do not believe it is the case that it has a negative racial and sexist aspect. The negative aspect is entirely to do with their attitude, not their race or their gender. I actually just saw someone on Daily KOS refer to the married couple who threatened protestors with guns as a "pair of Karens", so it isn't even true that women are exclusively being referred to by the term any more.
 
I am totally perplexed as to why some people are arguing the toss over this. It is de facto a case of a pejorative term having a slight negative racial and sexist aspect. That’s a fact.

I do not believe it is the case that it has a negative racial and sexist aspect. The negative aspect is entirely to do with their attitude, not their race or their gender. I actually just saw someone on Daily KOS refer to the married couple who threatened protestors with guns as a "pair of Karens", so it isn't even true that women are exclusively being referred to by the term any more.

The bigots who call the cops on black people for being black are overwhelmingly white women. Male Karens prefer violence.
 
I am totally perplexed as to why some people are arguing the toss over this. It is de facto a case of a pejorative term having a slight negative racial and sexist aspect. That’s a fact.

I do not believe it is the case that it has a negative racial and sexist aspect. The negative aspect is entirely to do with their attitude, not their race or their gender. I actually just saw someone on Daily KOS refer to the married couple who threatened protestors with guns as a "pair of Karens", so it isn't even true that women are exclusively being referred to by the term any more.

The bigots who call the cops on black people for being black are overwhelmingly white women. Male Karens prefer violence.

When black women call the cops on a black person (for serious, frivolous or even vindictive reasons) this will not be headline news. So who really knows.
 
The bigots who call the cops on black people for being black are overwhelmingly white women. Male Karens prefer violence.

When black women call the cops on a black person (for serious, frivolous or even vindictive reasons) this will not be headline news. So who really knows.

Yeah, and when aliens kidnap Eskimos it almost never makes the news.
 
I do not believe it is the case that it has a negative racial and sexist aspect.

Consider me not surprised, given the ludicrous opinions you've been spouting on several topics lately.
For someone who's so perplexed about why people are arguing about this, you sure are arguing about this a lot.
 
I do not believe it is the case that it has a negative racial and sexist aspect.

Consider me not surprised, given the ludicrous opinions you've been spouting on several topics lately.

Right back at ya'.

But if you would like to actually discuss any of these opinions you find ludicrous, you know where to find me. Be warned, I will bring reasoned arguments to the discussion, rather than one liners, so you might want to up your game.
 
I am totally perplexed as to why some people are arguing the toss over this. It is de facto a case of a pejorative term having a slight negative racial and sexist aspect.

It’s a relatively lightweight example yes, and not of the same type as some others (does not apply to all white women for example, and existed before its most recent incarnation) but that’s hardly the initial point, which is that it is used as a pejorative term with a negative racial and sexist component.

After that, it can be said that it’s not that serious an issue really, compared to many others.

I think it's critical to distinguish a pejorative term that is applied base upon individual behaviors that are correlated with race versus a racist pejorative that assumes behavior based on race.

Calling a person a white supremacist is pejorative and is applied exclusively to whites, but if it's based upon an individual actually behaving in ways that reveal white supremacist ideology is it racist to call someone that?
 
I am totally perplexed as to why some people are arguing the toss over this. It is de facto a case of a pejorative term having a slight negative racial and sexist aspect.

It’s a relatively lightweight example yes, and not of the same type as some others (does not apply to all white women for example, and existed before its most recent incarnation) but that’s hardly the initial point, which is that it is used as a pejorative term with a negative racial and sexist component.

After that, it can be said that it’s not that serious an issue really, compared to many others.

I think it's critical to distinguish a pejorative term that is applied base upon individual behaviors that are correlated with race versus a racist pejorative that assumes behavior based on race.

Calling a person a white supremacist is pejorative and is applied exclusively to whites, but if it's based upon an individual actually behaving in ways that reveal white supremacist ideology is it racist to call someone that?

If black women were afforded the same privilege that some white women receive and were treated like white women, would they act like Karen's in similar situations? I think yes. So is it racist when it's really just human nature depending upon the environment that people live in? I say no.
 
So, saying that they have privilege now means they can't complain because they have privilege so now they don't have privilege.

Passive aggressive method to strip rights away.
 
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Becky: Pejorative for White women.
See:
"Becky with the good hair" Beyonce (Sorry from her album Lemonade)

"Oh, my, god, Becky, look at her butt. It is so big. She looks like one of those rap guys' girlfriends. Who understands those rap guys? They only talk to her, because she looks like a total prostitute, okay? I mean, her butt, it's just so big. Ugh, I can't believe it's just so round, it's like out there, I mean, ugh, gross. Look! She's just so black!" -Sir Mix-A-Lot (Baby Got Back)

Karen: Over entitled or badly behaved person, usually but not always, a White woman.

See also: Fuck You Karen.

Angry KAREN Tries to Stop RACECAR BIRTHDAY PARADE for Kids!! **COPS CALLED, KARENS ARRESTED**


Karen Meltdown Compilation #15


This one includes a guy; he's called a Darren.


Insane Karen Has A Fit In Target And Gets Arrested
 
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Blacks can and do make racial slurs and not just on whites, surprise!!!!

Blacks are human like everybody else. As was said, for me blacks and whites are usably nice with each other as most people are.

It is a surprise to the hardcore leftists because they always insist that black people can't be racist. It's an article of faith, kind of like how women never lie about rape.

The thing of it is blacks and whites from my experience are indeed pretty much the same in all aspects. Bigots to liberal.

The progressive view is get rid of those pesky whites and America becomes right and juts...with liberty and justice for all..
 
Blacks can and do make racial slurs and not just on whites, surprise!!!!

Blacks are human like everybody else. As was said, for me blacks and whites are usably nice with each other as most people are.

It is a surprise to the hardcore leftists because they always insist that black people can't be racist. It's an article of faith, kind of like how women never lie about rape.

The thing of it is blacks and whites from my experience are indeed pretty much the same in all aspects. Bigots to liberal.

The progressive view is get rid of those pesky whites and America becomes right and juts...with liberty and justice for all..

Name two Progressives who hold that view, and provide evidence that indicates their influence among Progressives in general.

Because if all you've got is a partially overheard conversation in a hipster coffee shop, I think you need to pay more attention to what Progressives are actually saying.
 
I am totally perplexed as to why some people are arguing the toss over this. It is de facto a case of a pejorative term having a slight negative racial and sexist aspect.

It’s a relatively lightweight example yes, and not of the same type as some others (does not apply to all white women for example, and existed before its most recent incarnation) but that’s hardly the initial point, which is that it is used as a pejorative term with a negative racial and sexist component.

After that, it can be said that it’s not that serious an issue really, compared to many others.

I think it's critical to distinguish a pejorative term that is applied base upon individual behaviours that are correlated with race versus a racist pejorative that assumes behavior based on race.

Calling a person a white supremacist is pejorative and is applied exclusively to whites, but if it's based upon an individual actually behaving in ways that reveal white supremacist ideology is it racist to call someone that?

There is that distinction, yes. In some ways at least, though not entirely, it's a bit like Shylock, where a Jew usually has to be seen to behave badly (be money-grabbing) before the term is applied (though it can bleed over into an assumption that most or all of the target group are at least somewhat Shylocks, even if money-matters only get mentioned by them, which may happen with middle-class, middle-aged white women who complain, and I think has, to some extent). That said, I don't feel comfortable saying there isn't still at least a small, perhaps insidious racial and sexist component to, well not just the word (Karen), but the fact that its use has spread like a (small) wildfire on the internet and into common everyday language. It's a bit like the word bitch, except (a) it's a woman's name in this case (which is a bit of a pity for women called Karen, especially if they are middle class, middle-aged and white) and (b) bitch is used for all races.

I would ask whether the word bitch is in fact used in situations where a woman is merely being assertive, in a way that would not be (as readily) considered worthy of a pejorative for a man; that there is a perceived lower threshold for female behaviour in other words. The Karen in one of the videos above, for example, was objecting to what looked like about 20-30 'awesomely noisy' (male commentators words, if I recall correctly) souped-up cars being driven through and revved up in what looked like the otherwise quiet residential street that she lived on. To me that's not an unreasonable complaint, and even peaceably standing in the road to try to stop them doing it does not seem an entirely unreasonable piece of direct action (she didn't, as far as I could see 'lose it') although a different mode of complaint might have been better (but possibly nothing would have been done).

What's next, middle-aged women at board meetings feeling they can't strongly disagree with something in case they are afterwards labelled a Karen?

So I'm thinking that if you are a middle-class, middle-aged white woman and you complain about something, you are in danger of becoming a Karen almost by default.

All that said, I'm not losing any sleep over this. It obviously pales into relatively trivial insignificance compared to many other issues. But then it's not aimed at me because I'm not a middle-class, middle-aged white woman. And I know that the term Karen (a bit like bitch) is sometimes used for men, and indeed black men, but mostly not, and there is the male equivalent of Karen (Ken, or is it Kevin) but again that doesn't seem to be cited nearly as often. I admit I haven't seen many male anti-mask protesters labelled a Karen (or even a Kevin), although I guess there may be examples. In fact anti-mask pejorative terms other than 'anti-masker' seem to have mostly become associated with women, even though there seem to be about as many male anti-maskers (I haven't done a survey). So is it the case that humans behaving badly attract popular pejorative terms more readily when it's women doing the same behaving?

I also don't tend to buy the claim that something isn't racist or sexist just because it's aimed at someone in a generally dominant or privileged group. It's still what it is, imo, although it can be said that its effects are usually much less severe, and so two otherwise like-for-like cases of it arguably shouldn't be put on a par.
 
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