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Breakdown In Civil Order

Car dealership tried to steal $959 from me yesterday with a fraudulent repair on top of the fake fuel induction service they pushed. Why isn't there any hand-wringing over the common fraud business model of car dealership service departments and some other service industries like lawn pest management and such (I have some good stories about Save-A-Tree up in New Jersey).
I bet if you started a thread on that topic, you'd get plenty of people to join in your complaints. But bitching that nobody is complaining about some other unrelated topic in this thread is... well... irrational.
 
Yeah, I specifically chose a conventional vehicle when I bought one 7 years ago largely because my daily commute was 100 miles which exceeded the range of electrical vehicles. In good weather so maybe 6 months of the year. At the time, I thought I’d work longer than I ended up doing. When hubby replaced his vehicle he chose a hybrid which is extremely efficient in town and when he needs to do highway driving. Truthfully there are many days in any week when neither of us drive. I could sell my car and get a hybrid but at the moment I have zero interest in taking on a car payment.
Did this get posted in the wrong thread, by chance?
 
Car dealership tried to steal $959 from me yesterday with a fraudulent repair on top of the fake fuel induction service they pushed. Why isn't there any hand-wringing over the common fraud business model of car dealership service departments and some other service industries like lawn pest management and such (I have some good stories about Save-A-Tree up in New Jersey).
I bet if you started a thread on that topic, you'd get plenty of people to join in your complaints. But bitching that nobody is complaining about some other unrelated topic in this thread is... well... irrational.
So now would not be a good time to bring up my new toaster that only toasts one side of the bread?
 
Car dealership tried to steal $959 from me yesterday with a fraudulent repair on top of the fake fuel induction service they pushed. Why isn't there any hand-wringing over the common fraud business model of car dealership service departments and some other service industries like lawn pest management and such (I have some good stories about Save-A-Tree up in New Jersey).
I bet if you started a thread on that topic, you'd get plenty of people to join in your complaints. But bitching that nobody is complaining about some other unrelated topic in this thread is... well... irrational.
It isn’t unrelated. The same people fear mongering about bums and bums crimes promote and protect fraudulent business practices. They want us taking pitchforks to the bums while ignoring that they eliminate the consumer financial protection bureau and such. The real problem with civil order is visible in the local paper’s mug shot page; who are there and who aren’t.

Trying to put things in perspective.
 
The fact is, we are in the business of creating humans who don't necessarily want to have ever started existing.

When we do that, we owe a debt to provide some place for them in the world we unfairly created them in. Some people are more erosive on the infrastructure than others, but we don't just lose the obligation we earned as a society by our policies that lead to such people existing simply because they are a bit hard to provide such infrastructure.

We are clever and capable as a species, clever and capable enough to provide more durable accommodations to those who are so erosive. In fact, the very act of doing so teaches us a great deal as a society. We have the responsibility to provide such spaces, and to provide them at a scale in densely populated areas such that they can handle the existence of such erosive persons, lest they erode the literal surfaces of places that are much harder to keep clean and to repair. It's easier to sweep concrete than it is to sweep dirt.

I would hope we can make it so that such persons will be a very small minority, to minimize the need for such durable accommodations. It is neither difficult or even particularly onerous to provide some houses in more rural communities for those teens who need support after high school for whatever reason. Ideally, by catching people who would otherwise fall through such cracks, we would avert the outcome wherein they become such erosive misanthropes in the first place.

I get that a lot of people resent the existence of people who they push to the margins. I expect if fewer people sought to marginalize others beyond the marginalization those people seek for themselves, there would be fewer people on the margins of society, and they would be further from "going over the edge". This is certainly NOT accomplished by depriving people of the existence of otherwise unused land, nor is it accomplished by destroying what little stuff they have, nor is it accomplished by being shitty about drugs, alcohol, or pets belonging to those people.

If we wish to bring people in from the margins, it means making a place for them closer to the fire, even if those people are "strange" or "lazy" or "high".

Still it strikes me that some people are more concerned with the dangers they perceive from those who don't even have a car rather than the pedophile criminal rapist grifters.

Scormbird is right to question why so much attention, effort, and energy is being extended on nickel and dime bullshit, and not directed at real and substantive robberies. The law is far more able to do something about companies that lie to consumers, against advertisers who harass people in their homes, and against those who scam the elderly, by expecting those who provide communications services and businesses to be beholden to some manner of oversight.

The reason it does not is often down to interference and obstruction by those who most loudly proclaim that homeless people are the problem.

The thing is, I do recognize that homeless people can in some ways end up being a problem. Some of the most stressful or weird moments of my life were had due to the momentary presence of a homeless person. Still, I was in no immediate danger in those situations, and I recognize that much more dangerous situations in my life were brought by people who do have homes, including all of the most expensive problems.

I also recognize that the easiest way to minimize such problems is to make sure people have options so as to never become chronically "homeless" in the first place, and to quit trying to make life a competition against each other than working alongside one another.
 
It isn’t unrelated. The same people fear mongering about bums and bums crimes promote and protect fraudulent business practices. They want us taking pitchforks to the bums while ignoring that they eliminate the consumer financial protection bureau and such. The real problem with civil order is visible in the local paper’s mug shot page; who are there and who aren’t.

Nah, the bums (as you call them) can’t be pitching tents on the sidewalk, shitting in the gutter, living in their own filth and all the rest of their antisocial proclivities.
 
Car dealership tried to steal $959 from me yesterday with a fraudulent repair on top of the fake fuel induction service they pushed. Why isn't there any hand-wringing over the common fraud business model of car dealership service departments and some other service industries like lawn pest management and such (I have some good stories about Save-A-Tree up in New Jersey).
I bet if you started a thread on that topic, you'd get plenty of people to join in your complaints. But bitching that nobody is complaining about some other unrelated topic in this thread is... well... irrational.
Breakdown in Civil Order includes just about all manners of society, not merely hobby horses.
 
It isn’t unrelated. The same people fear mongering about bums and bums crimes promote and protect fraudulent business practices. They want us taking pitchforks to the bums while ignoring that they eliminate the consumer financial protection bureau and such. The real problem with civil order is visible in the local paper’s mug shot page; who are there and who aren’t.

Nah, the bums (as you call them) can’t be pitching tents on the sidewalk, shitting in the gutter, living in their own filth and all the rest of their antisocial proclivities.
Oh noes, there are homeless living in tents on every street in America.

No homeless living on the street where I live. What a religious like cult.
 
It isn’t unrelated. The same people fear mongering about bums and bums crimes promote and protect fraudulent business practices. They want us taking pitchforks to the bums while ignoring that they eliminate the consumer financial protection bureau and such. The real problem with civil order is visible in the local paper’s mug shot page; who are there and who aren’t.

Nah, the bums (as you call them) can’t be pitching tents on the sidewalk, shitting in the gutter, living in their own filth and all the rest of their antisocial proclivities.
Oh noes, there are homeless living in tents on every street in America.

No homeless living on the street where I live. What a religious like cult.
Being as "pedestrian" as I am and living in a city, I do know some places where homeless people will camp on the sidewalk. In my experience it's more like a sleeping bag and a futon mattress, and happens in the middle of a sidewalk that tends to be out of the way, but it does happen.

The question I have is that, if there were a better place than the middle of the sidewalk to camp, could they be asked to camp there instead? I think they could.

The "living in filth" part and the "being antisocial" part though... So f'n what? That covers a lot of homed people too. As if it's any worse or better when someone does it in a tent instead of a built home... Might as well make sure that the tent is at least somewhere that won't burn, and that is easy to clean after they vacate.
 
The question I have is that, if there were a better place than the middle of the sidewalk to camp, could they be asked to camp there instead? I think they could.

Ahem...
An area that is not frequently used by the community. A baseball or football field out of season, publicly owned fields that aren't generally used for hiking/camping/playgrounds, empty lots on the outskirts of the city that don't impede travel or business. In my neck of the woods, we had a lot of hotels/motels go out of business during the pandemic, as well as several strip malls and department stores that closed. A large number of those have been repurposed to provide housing and shelter for the homeless. Seems like a pretty good idea to me.
 
Give someone a home, they behave badly enough and you know where to find them, and see them, and see if and when they behave badly enough to get new, much more secure dwellings for the mentally unwell.

But most homeless folks are that way at the end of a pipeline that starts near the end of highschool, especially for certain folks.

My birth mother spent most of her life homeless, and yeah, there were behavioral issues there. All things told, things would still have been better if she had a home. There would have been one less infant in a group home.
The problem is that you can't reasonably divide the world into those who need lockup and those who will deal with the place they're living properly. There's a substantial middle ground. Those are the ones that should be denied access to government-provided shelter.
You absolutely can reasonably divide the world that way.

We have had laws for tens of thousands of years. Literally the one job of "laws" is to effect that division.
No. The problem is there is a middle ground.
One part of the solution, part that keeps getting looked away from, is the fact that we need to start designing encampment locations with the intent that they be used by those who need a more durable living area.

Some people need to be housed in homes.

Some people need to be housed in a parking garage style structure but with walls and doors and floor drains.

Some ostensibly need an open space (possibly the top level of such a structure) where they can just pitch a tent.

I will return to my demand, therefore, for homeless encampment sites that will tolerate a high degree of abuse.
But how do you create such a place?
 
Give someone a home, they behave badly enough and you know where to find them, and see them, and see if and when they behave badly enough to get new, much more secure dwellings for the mentally unwell.

But most homeless folks are that way at the end of a pipeline that starts near the end of highschool, especially for certain folks.

My birth mother spent most of her life homeless, and yeah, there were behavioral issues there. All things told, things would still have been better if she had a home. There would have been one less infant in a group home.
The problem is that you can't reasonably divide the world into those who need lockup and those who will deal with the place they're living properly. There's a substantial middle ground. Those are the ones that should be denied access to government-provided shelter.
You absolutely can reasonably divide the world that way.

We have had laws for tens of thousands of years. Literally the one job of "laws" is to effect that division.
No. The problem is there is a middle ground.
One part of the solution, part that keeps getting looked away from, is the fact that we need to start designing encampment locations with the intent that they be used by those who need a more durable living area.

Some people need to be housed in homes.

Some people need to be housed in a parking garage style structure but with walls and doors and floor drains.

Some ostensibly need an open space (possibly the top level of such a structure) where they can just pitch a tent.

I will return to my demand, therefore, for homeless encampment sites that will tolerate a high degree of abuse.
But how do you create such a place?
You spend money, you risk making mistakes, and you figure it out one idea at a time.
 
The question I have is that, if there were a better place than the middle of the sidewalk to camp, could they be asked to camp there instead? I think they could.

Ahem...
An area that is not frequently used by the community. A baseball or football field out of season, publicly owned fields that aren't generally used for hiking/camping/playgrounds, empty lots on the outskirts of the city that don't impede travel or business. In my neck of the woods, we had a lot of hotels/motels go out of business during the pandemic, as well as several strip malls and department stores that closed. A large number of those have been repurposed to provide housing and shelter for the homeless. Seems like a pretty good idea to me.
How do playgrounds and fielda work, unless they have a lot of toilets? Definitely no showers.
 
I will return to my demand, therefore, for homeless encampment sites that will tolerate a high degree of abuse.
But how do you create such a place?
You spend money, you risk making mistakes, and you figure it out one idea at a time.
How do you make plumbing that can tolerate a high degree of abuse? Especially drains.
That sounds like an excellent question for a waste management engineer, "how to make a system that will precipitate a fatberg, on purpose, in a place it can be regularly removed"
 
I will return to my demand, therefore, for homeless encampment sites that will tolerate a high degree of abuse.
But how do you create such a place?
You spend money, you risk making mistakes, and you figure it out one idea at a time.
How do you make plumbing that can tolerate a high degree of abuse? Especially drains.
How do camping site do it? They take a high degree of abuse. As would prisons, stadiums, any public place the best of humanity congregates.
There are grinders in place that'll munch up most anything.
https://www.jwce.com/ad/muffin-monster/
 
I will return to my demand, therefore, for homeless encampment sites that will tolerate a high degree of abuse.
But how do you create such a place?
You spend money, you risk making mistakes, and you figure it out one idea at a time.
How do you make plumbing that can tolerate a high degree of abuse? Especially drains.
How do camping site do it? They take a high degree of abuse. As would prisons, stadiums, any public place the best of humanity congregates.
There are grinders in place that'll munch up most anything.
https://www.jwce.com/ad/muffin-monster/
No. They take a high degree of use. Not of abuse.

Think of the people who get destructive when they get mad.
 
The breakdown of civil society gathers momentum in England;

Almost 6,000 officers have been mobilised after a terrifying hitlist showed far-right thugs are set to target immigration centres, refugee shelters and lawyers' homes today - as more race riots are set to spark chaos across the country.

Daily Mail

There has been simmering discontent with mass immigration in England (and further afield in Europe) and things are coming to ahead as a society unravels.
 
The breakdown of civil society gathers momentum in England;

Almost 6,000 officers have been mobilised after a terrifying hitlist showed far-right thugs are set to target immigration centres, refugee shelters and lawyers' homes today - as more race riots are set to spark chaos across the country.

Daily Mail

There has been simmering discontent with mass immigration in England (and further afield in Europe) and things are coming to ahead as a society unravels.
And yet somehow you manage to give leeway to the far right terrorist thugs' grievance rather than supporting the police, targeting blame on people seeking homes and work rather than on the ones seeking violence and blaming their troubles on others rather than turning inward and blaming their troubles on Tories and the far right's noise machine
 
Car dealership tried to steal $959 from me yesterday with a fraudulent repair on top of the fake fuel induction service they pushed. Why isn't there any hand-wringing over the common fraud business model of car dealership service departments and some other service industries like lawn pest management and such (I have some good stories about Save-A-Tree up in New Jersey).
I bet if you started a thread on that topic, you'd get plenty of people to join in your complaints. But bitching that nobody is complaining about some other unrelated topic in this thread is... well... irrational.
So now would not be a good time to bring up my new toaster that only toasts one side of the bread?
1st world problem mate.
There is a thread somewhere about such things.
 
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