Breakdown In Civil Order

[TomC]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

The Puritans tried to take over Britain. Good, god fearing, warm beer swilling Britons kicked them out because they were religious assholes so they came here.

 

[Elixir]

WE don't know because WE are not on those drugs or at least I am not. I have known plenty of people on antidepressants and some much more serious medications for much more than depression and yes, those can have undesirable side effects, some very undesirable and sometimes, they are just not the correct medication(s).

We're not talking about mood disorders here, so references to antidepressants are irrelevant.

We already know that people often stop taking antibiotics when they feel better rather than completing the course as directed. And we know that plenty of people will cut down on their meds to save money.

References to bacterial infections are also irrelevant.

It is not at all surprising that people who are taking heavy duty psychotropic drugs will hope to go off of those drugs and may be lulled into a false sense of security as the treatment works and those symptoms dissipate--but side effects remain. Not to mention that those drugs are not perfect in their abilities to manage serious symptoms and can conflict with other medications....

The difference is that for those with disorders that present with delusions and/or hallucinations, when they go off their meds because they don't like the side effects, they become a danger to themselves and others.

The Brits have known that forever. That’s why there’s Australia.

Somehow I don't think that deporting the US's population of schizophrenics and psychotics to Australia would be considered acceptable behavior these days...

That wasn't the suggestion. Go get your own island continent!
I mean, as long as we're talking magic, why compromise?

 

[bilby]

WE don't know because WE are not on those drugs or at least I am not. I have known plenty of people on antidepressants and some much more serious medications for much more than depression and yes, those can have undesirable side effects, some very undesirable and sometimes, they are just not the correct medication(s).

We're not talking about mood disorders here, so references to antidepressants are irrelevant.

We already know that people often stop taking antibiotics when they feel better rather than completing the course as directed. And we know that plenty of people will cut down on their meds to save money.

References to bacterial infections are also irrelevant.

It is not at all surprising that people who are taking heavy duty psychotropic drugs will hope to go off of those drugs and may be lulled into a false sense of security as the treatment works and those symptoms dissipate--but side effects remain. Not to mention that those drugs are not perfect in their abilities to manage serious symptoms and can conflict with other medications....

The difference is that for those with disorders that present with delusions and/or hallucinations, when they go off their meds because they don't like the side effects, they become a danger to themselves and others.

The Brits have known that forever. That’s why there’s Australia.

Somehow I don't think that deporting the US's population of schizophrenics and psychotics to Australia would be considered acceptable behavior these days...

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

It is now an offence to unintentionally feed a crocodile, so...

 

[Politesse]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

Debtor's prison, most often. People who committed capital crimes could not generally escape the noose by moving to Massachusetts. The problems were prison overcrowding in the UK, and desire for cheap indentured labor here, not lack of stomach for executions. Even if you transported them, who's going to want to hire a murderer for a domestic servant, cheaply or no?

 

[Elixir]

Even if you transported them, who's going to want to hire a murderer for a domestic servant, cheaply or no?

Somebody does, or “the butler did it” wouldn’t be a cliché.

 

[bilby]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

The Puritans tried to take over Britain. Good, god fearing, warm beer swilling Britons kicked them out because they were religious assholes so they came here.

The UK only founded Australia as a prison colony because the US revolted and was no longer available, which led to the prison hulks filling up beyond their capacity.

 

[robnisch]

Church that worships with AR-15 is giving away Trump rifle

Rod of Iron Ministries is hosting its annual Freedom Festival this weekend in Pennsylvania.

www.newsweek.com

Praise god and pass the ammo!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I remember a lot of people taking issue having to remain in their homes during the pandemic.

Do you also remember that there was nothing actually wrong with the people that were told/forced to remain at home?

You seem to think infection is nothing. There are over a million dead that would say otherwise. And probably a similar number who are totally disabled by it. And many millions with lesser damage.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

Debtor's prison, most often. People who committed capital crimes could not generally escape the noose by moving to Massachusetts. The problems were prison overcrowding in the UK, and desire for cheap indentured labor here, not lack of stomach for executions. Even if you transported them, who's going to want to hire a murderer for a domestic servant, cheaply or no?

My impression is that it included people guilty of fairly minor offenses.

 

[Politesse]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

Debtor's prison, most often. People who committed capital crimes could not generally escape the noose by moving to Massachusetts. The problems were prison overcrowding in the UK, and desire for cheap indentured labor here, not lack of stomach for executions. Even if you transported them, who's going to want to hire a murderer for a domestic servant, cheaply or no?

My impression is that it included people guilty of fairly minor offenses.

Exactly. Though attitudes about crime and punishment in general were very different in the 18th century. Not easy to map to current sensibilities.

 

[bilby]

I think we should try it. At least Australia has experience dealing with such things.

JK Not really.

I'm pretty sure that a fair number of the original US colonists arrived because their other options were prison or hanging or something.
Tom

Debtor's prison, most often. People who committed capital crimes could not generally escape the noose by moving to Massachusetts. The problems were prison overcrowding in the UK, and desire for cheap indentured labor here, not lack of stomach for executions. Even if you transported them, who's going to want to hire a murderer for a domestic servant, cheaply or no?

My impression is that it included people guilty of fairly minor offenses.

Exactly. Though attitudes about crime and punishment in general were very different in the 18th century. Not easy to map to current sensibilities.

Debtors were one of the least likely classes of criminals to be transported to the colonies. Most transportees were theives of various kinds (including fences and handlers of stolen goods); Forgers, fraudsters, and coiners were also quite well represented.

The English legal system had capital punishment as the 'standard' sentence for such crimes, but it was believed that showing mercy by reducing the death penalty to one of transportation, would improve the public perception of the law.

Of course, in an era before police, much less detectives, forensics, photography, fingerprints, or really anything other than eyewitness testimony, the average thief correctly expected not to be caught. And the law responded by increasing the severity of sentences - up to hanging - for any who were, even for fairly trivial offences. But this was so obviously unfair that it regularly led to civil unrest. Royal intervention to pardon offenders was widely used (a legal mechanism that today survives in the US Presidential pardon, long after it disappeared from English legal practice). But a middle ground - a way to show leniency, but without allowing offenders to get away without any punishment at all, was needed.

Prison as a sentence (rather than as a place to hold people while they awaited the carrying out of their sentence) was only really used for debtors. So it was all the other criminals, who were legally bound for the gallows, but who were not murderers, rapists, sodomites, or otherwise similarly irredeemable, who were instead placed out of sight and out of mind, by sending them to effective slavery in the colonies.

 

[Derec]

Number of Young People Accused of Serious Crimes Surges in New York City

Due to idiotic policies out of Albany.

The number of people under 18 accused of major crimes, including murders, robberies and assaults, has increased sharply in New York City in the past seven years, Police Department figures show — a steep trajectory that has alarmed law enforcement officials.
Last year, there were 4,858 major crimes where a minor was accused or arrested, up from 3,543 in 2017 — a 37 percent increase.
Those accused or arrested in felony assaults, in which a person is seriously injured or a deadly weapon like a gun or knife is used, have jumped by 28 percent since 2017. Robberies have risen by 52 percent. Killings in which a young person was accused rose to 36 in 2023 from 10 in 2017.
[...]
Until recently, the criminal justice system in New York treated many young people accused of serious crimes as adults. But in 2017, when youth crime had fallen to lows not seen for decades, legislators in Albany changed the way the cases of 16- and 17-year-olds were handled, passing a law known as “Raise the Age.”
Police officials in New York said the law, which diverted most cases of 16- and 17-year-old defendants from adult courts to Family Court or to judges with access to social services and special training, was at the root of the crisis. The law, they said, has made it harder for prosecutors and the police to provide evidence of prior serious offenses that may have gone through the sealed Family Court process, often leading to the release of young people with violent backgrounds. Chief LiPetri called it “a revolving door of justice.”

Basically, under this law even repeat offenders get a slap on the wrist as long as they are under 18.

“Minors contribute to the overall crime problem, but not in a way that would justify the overwhelming punitive policy response,” said Jeffrey Butts, research professor and director of the Research and Evaluation Center at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “Is it misleading to concentrate our attention on one subset of the population?”

It's not about concentrating on that subset. The current law is exempting them from real consequences of their behavior.

Still, high-profile cases propel the debate. The police recently said a group of children, most from Venezuela and some as young as 11, were committing robberies at knife point in Central Park and Times Square. On Oct. 4, two boys, 12 and 13, were accused of assaulting David A. Paterson, a former New York governor, and his stepson as they walked through the Upper East Side.

This is the nexus with out insane immigration polices, where anybody who shows up at the border and claims "asylum" is waved through, and "sanctuary cities" make it almost impossible to deport illegals, even when they commit crimes.

New York’s rise in youth crime reflects a national problem. While the overall number of violent crimes and homicides in America fell in 2023, arrests of juveniles for similar offenses increased substantially, according to the F.B.I.’s Uniform Crime Report, which collects statistics from around the country.

But how many are prosecuted in criminal court? There is also an epidemic of teenagers stealing cars, and they are usually just released to their parents, only to steal again.
12-year-old serial car theft suspect accused in 10th case
'We don't always get it right': Court records show juvenile car thieves are typically released to parents
3 Teen Boys Released to Parents After Attempted Auto Theft in Mission Valley
15-year-old Greenfield girl arrested again for grand theft auto
Too many jurisdictions have de-facto legalized theft by young people.

But the law should allow easier detention of repeat violent offenders, he said. He noted that captains and chiefs often hear of teenagers who have committed robberies or been caught with guns only to be released back to the streets.
“There needs to be swift consequences,” Chief LiPetri said.
Mr. O’Connor, the retired police official, believes Raise the Age is a major contributor to the increase and said city officials and the mayor must address the issue with more urgency.
“These are the future adults,” he said. “What are these kids going to be like when they’re 20 or 25 years old?”

Great question indeed.

 

[TSwizzle]

Thank goodness Gascon has been booted out and prop 36 passed.

 

[thebeave]

We have reached a new low in the breakdown of civil order in California. No wonder people are exiting the state in droves. It's getting unbearable.

Grizzly Insurance Scheme. Suspects Wear Bear Costume ... Tear Up High-End Cars

 

[TSwizzle]

Oh great, Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass is going to try to pass into law that Los Angeles be a "sanctuary city" and will not cooperate with Federal ICE to prevent deportations. That's right, the city will protect criminals (the drug dealers, the tourist burglars and gang bangers etc) from being deported.


Meanwhile in Los Angeles,

Just before 10 one recent morning, an LA neighborhood was rocked by loud explosions that residents say sounded like bombs going off.
"There were two huge explosions, and when I looked out my apartment window I saw plumes of black smoke," said Jeanne Rice, who lives around the corner from a homeless encampment at Wilton Avenue and Hollywood Boulevard. Those plumes of smoke and fire were coming from a homeless tent that had exploded into a ball of fire, destroying the tent and other tents around it. The I-Team found this was just one of several encampment fires recently in this neighborhood dotted by new apartment and condo buildings. "We have fire after fire after fire, and now they're putting us in danger. We're all in danger in this neighborhood," said resident Levi Freeman. LA Fire Department data for the last five calendar years, obtained by the I-Team, shows the number of fires related to homeless people has been steadily climbing. There were 13,909 homeless fires in 2023, almost double the number of such fires in 2020.

News

 

[Politesse]

Being a sanctuary city does not mean ignoring crime, it means not criminalizing non-criminals. ICE does not, in fact, prevent or solve crimes -- it invents them. Decreasing the number of petty non-crimes pursued by the city frees the actual civic police force to focus on serious crimes, rather than being constantly co-opted to assist an incompetent federal agency with its ongoing program of fucking useless xenophobic bullshit.

 

[TSwizzle]

Being a sanctuary city does not mean ignoring crime, it means not criminalizing non-criminals. ICE does not, in fact, prevent or solve crimes -- it invents them. Decreasing the number of petty non-crimes pursued by the city frees the actual civic police force to focus on serious crimes, rather than being constantly co-opted to assist an incompetent federal agency with its ongoing program of fucking useless xenophobic bullshit.

Karen Bass would rather protect criminals than the citizens of Los Angeles.

 

[Politesse]

That would be extremely alarming, if it were in any way true.

 

[Politesse]

Some welcome news from the LA area:

A completely useless dam in Malibu is finally coming down​