Breakdown In Civil Order

[Trausti]

Get people off drugs.

OMG! Why oh why has nobody thought of that sooner? That's brilliant. And so simple!

Oh, wait.

And it worked well when we did it.

Sure did.

Homelessness. That was the immediate question. Do you think someone with a fentanyl addiction can make monthly rent payments and hold down a job? If your loved one or friend was ruining their life with drugs, would you encourage or discourage their drug use?

 

[Hermit]

Homelessness. That was the immediate question. Do you think someone with a fentanyl addiction can make monthly rent payments and hold down a job? If your loved one or friend was ruining their life with drugs, would you encourage or discourage their drug use?

Trausti, you're just riffing on the "more punishment - less crime" tune again. I linked to a graph showing that other factors influence crime rates to a much more influential, to say the least.

You can always find pockets where data seemingly support your thesis. It's called cherry picking. On a national scale it fails. If it were valid, the chart below would show a drop in deaths by drug overdose between 2000 and 2007. It shows a rise.

And Portugal would be in big trouble since it decriminalised the use of all illicit drugs in 2001. It isn't.

So, looking at the big picture of drug use and punishment, your assertion fails. Punishments do not decrease the number of drug users because people don't decide to do drugs because they don't fear punishment. They get into them for other reasons.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your approach has been demonstrated to fail. Why do you expect it to work any better if you keep at it?

No. Ever since Seattle adopted the drugs are okay approach, the number of homeless has gone up. The more $$$ we spend the more homelessness we get. Do you really think a drug addict can handle monthly rent, let alone hold down a job? If we really cared about people we’d try our best to get the them off this poison.

First, I asked about your approach that has been demonstrated to fail.

Second, of course you get more homeless when one area is more friendly to their needs than others!

Third, if drugs weren't insanely expensive addicts could hold low-level jobs and feed their habit. And even if they can't--I'm a lot more afraid of the mugger that needs money for his fix than the wino who can get their fix from property crime.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Homelessness. That was the immediate question. Do you think someone with a fentanyl addiction can make monthly rent payments and hold down a job? If your loved one or friend was ruining their life with drugs, would you encourage or discourage their drug use?

Fentanyl addiction isn't going to keep someone from being able to work. There are plenty of chronic pain patients on high level stuff who lead reasonable lives.

 

[thebeave]

Man smears poop on woman in NYC subway station in sickening video

What a s—show.

A man smeared human feces on a woman’s face in an unprovoked rush-hour attack inside a Bronx subway station, sickening new video shows.

The 43-year-old victim was sitting on a bench on the southbound platform of the Wakefield–241st Street station around 5:15 p.m. Feb. 21 when a man began walking toward her, holding a black plastic bag, according to cops and the clip released late Sunday.

Then, without saying a word, he smashed the vile contents of the bag in her face, and then smeared it on the back of her head, the footage shows.

The assailant took off after the attack, and cops were still looking for him Monday morning.

 

[TSwizzle]

Mayor Eric Adams called the incident a “horrific experience for anyone to go through” at an unrelated press conference Monday afternoon. “Human waste or someone spitting in your face, those are real signs of mental health issues … and we really must dig into how we’re dealing with these mental health issues,” said the mayor.

No shit Sherlock.

 

[Politesse]

While Republicans whine, accuse, and threaten, the Democrats take action on the critical issues that our society faces:

California judges could order help for homeless Californians under Newsom’s new plan​

The proposal, which Newsom is calling the Community Assistance, Recovery and Empowerment Court, is the state’s latest effort to address one of California’s greatest struggles, and a recognition that something more robust is needed to solve the problem. Newsom allocated $12 billion for homelessness in the state budget last year and proposed another $2 billion in his January financial blueprint.

But implementing a court-ordered response to mental illness and substance abuse disorders would accelerate the state’s multipronged strategy to help thousands of people get much-needed services, while acknowledging that the current system is not working as it should.

“Rather than reforming in the margins a system that is foundationally and fundamentally broken, we are taking a new approach,” Newsom said during a Thursday news conference. “We are offering a new strategy and new partnerships. But we are offering it in a way that we haven’t in the past, and that’s with resources.”

 

[Trausti]

While Republicans whine, accuse, and threaten, the Democrats take action on the critical issues that our society faces:

California judges could order help for homeless Californians under Newsom’s new plan​

The proposal, which Newsom is calling the Community Assistance, Recovery and Empowerment Court, is the state’s latest effort to address one of California’s greatest struggles, and a recognition that something more robust is needed to solve the problem. Newsom allocated $12 billion for homelessness in the state budget last year and proposed another $2 billion in his January financial blueprint.

But implementing a court-ordered response to mental illness and substance abuse disorders would accelerate the state’s multipronged strategy to help thousands of people get much-needed services, while acknowledging that the current system is not working as it should.

“Rather than reforming in the margins a system that is foundationally and fundamentally broken, we are taking a new approach,” Newsom said during a Thursday news conference. “We are offering a new strategy and new partnerships. But we are offering it in a way that we haven’t in the past, and that’s with resources.”

This is a good idea. It recognizes that the problem lies at the individual level; not Amazon. Civil commitment should be revisited for those who’s mental illness / drug use prevents them from holding a job or paying rent. Nice to see the pendulum swinging back from the progressive insanity of the past few years.

 

[TSwizzle]

While Republicans whine, accuse, and threaten, the Democrats take action on the critical issues that our society faces:

For the most part, it is democrat policies that caused the problem.

The proposal may be a step in the right direction in that it may have dawned on Newsom that the "homeless problem" isn't really a housing problem at all.

What is laughable is that insufferable prick Newsom's grandstanding.

Newsom tells the Chronicle's Heather Knight this week that he's damn angry about the ongoing epidemic of mental illness, which is part and parcel of the state's epidemic of homelessness. "I’m increasingly outraged by what’s going on in the streets,” Newsom says. “I’m disgusted with it."

He's a idiot altogether.

 

[Politesse]

While Republicans whine, accuse, and threaten, the Democrats take action on the critical issues that our society faces:

For the most part, it is democrat policies that caused the problem.

The proposal may be a step in the right direction in that it may have dawned on Newsom that the "homeless problem" isn't really a housing problem at all.

What is laughable is that insufferable prick Newsom's grandstanding.

Newsom tells the Chronicle's Heather Knight this week that he's damn angry about the ongoing epidemic of mental illness, which is part and parcel of the state's epidemic of homelessness. "I’m increasingly outraged by what’s going on in the streets,” Newsom says. “I’m disgusted with it."

He's a idiot altogether.

An "idiot" who is out meaningfully solving problems, while you run meaningless commentary on the internet. I know who I'd rather have in Sacramento given those two options, and I don't even like the man.

 

[TSwizzle]

An "idiot" who is out meaningfully solving problems, while you run meaningless commentary on the internet. I know who I'd rather have in Sacramento given those two options, and I don't even like the man.

He hasn’t actually solved any problems, ever. He allowed this “homeless” crisis to develop into a humanitarian disaster despite having money and resources at his disposal. And now he comes out to tell us how disgusted he is? Fuck Newsom, he is useless, absolutely fucking useless. In fact, he’s worse than useless.

 

[Politesse]

An "idiot" who is out meaningfully solving problems, while you run meaningless commentary on the internet. I know who I'd rather have in Sacramento given those two options, and I don't even like the man.

He hasn’t actually solved any problems, ever. He allowed this “homeless” crisis to develop into a humanitarian disaster despite having money and resources at his disposal. And now he comes out to tell us how disgusted he is? Fuck Newsom, he is useless, absolutely fucking useless. In fact, he’s worse than useless.

So if someone does nothing to address a situation except express how disgusted they are about it, you would agree that that person is useless?

What if it was an entire political party?

 

[Hermit]

An "idiot" who is out meaningfully solving problems, while you run meaningless commentary on the internet. I know who I'd rather have in Sacramento given those two options, and I don't even like the man.

He hasn’t actually solved any problems, ever. He allowed this “homeless” crisis to develop into a humanitarian disaster despite having money and resources at his disposal. And now he comes out to tell us how disgusted he is? Fuck Newsom, he is useless, absolutely fucking useless. In fact, he’s worse than useless.

Gavin Newsom has been California's governor since January 7, 2019 and he has allowed this homeless crisis to develop into a humanitarian disaster in such a short time? Evil, evil man.

 

[Politesse]

An "idiot" who is out meaningfully solving problems, while you run meaningless commentary on the internet. I know who I'd rather have in Sacramento given those two options, and I don't even like the man.

He hasn’t actually solved any problems, ever. He allowed this “homeless” crisis to develop into a humanitarian disaster despite having money and resources at his disposal. And now he comes out to tell us how disgusted he is? Fuck Newsom, he is useless, absolutely fucking useless. In fact, he’s worse than useless.

Gavin Newsom has been California's governor since January 7, 2019 and he has allowed this homeless crisis to develop into a humanitarian disaster in such a short time? Evil, evil man.

The thing you have to understand is that to the California Republican Party, each Democratic governor is understood as an identical avatar of the previous one. They make the same complaints using the same verbiage year in, year out, regardless of anything that a particular governor does. They don't even pause for breath. So, it's not so much that Newsom caused homelessness, as it is that Brown/Davis/Brown/Newsom caused homelessness. The state went through some brief golden periods, most recently between 2003 and 2011, during which homelessness was "no longer a serious problem" worth worrying about or spending any public money on, but now it's back.

 

[TSwizzle]

It’s getting worse apparently;

Portland is already on track to surpass last year's record-breaking homicide rate with murders up 10 percent as the progressive policies of America's most woke city struggle to curtail violent crime. The liberal Pacific Northwest bastion topped off February with 22 murders so far this year - up from the 19 in 2021 - and is on track to hit around 130 by December, according to the Oregonian. The record violence comes despite the police department introducing a new Focused Intervention Team that hit the streets in January. The team is designed to address gun violence and the proliferation of the deadly weapons in a city where around 75 percent of victims are killed through gun violence.

Daily Mail

 

[Politesse]

It’s getting worse apparently;

Portland is already on track to surpass last year's record-breaking homicide rate with murders up 10 percent as the progressive policies of America's most woke city struggle to curtail violent crime. The liberal Pacific Northwest bastion topped off February with 22 murders so far this year - up from the 19 in 2021 - and is on track to hit around 130 by December, according to the Oregonian. The record violence comes despite the police department introducing a new Focused Intervention Team that hit the streets in January. The team is designed to address gun violence and the proliferation of the deadly weapons in a city where around 75 percent of victims are killed through gun violence.

Daily Mail

What is your proposed solution for the problem of gun proliferation in Portland?

 

[steve_bank]

There have been multiple shooting over the last few days near where I go for my meds, Walgreens at 3rd and Pike.

Yesterday a man ran his car into the federal building, got out and started shooting at the building with a shotgun. Killed by police.

Police have stationed mobile command centers and institued walking patrols at 3rd and Pike and 12th and Jackson both centers of crime and gun violence. Should have been dome years ago. Some progressives actually argued that it was the polce presence that gves rise to crime. Diminish police and crime goes away. This is the kind of thinking behind our city council.

People were literaly walking unopposed into stores walking out with goods, and selling them on the street in front of the stores.

The QFC where I go for groceries on Broadway has armed security guards. The windows are now covered with metal.

Police make a presence and arrests and lo and behold, the criminals leave. We finally have a mayor that takes a hard stand on crime and gives uquakified support to police.

 

[thebeave]

Things are getting pretty serious here. Now thieves and bystanders are flinging bananas at each other!

BAY AREA WALGREENS BRAZEN THIEF GETS INTO FOOD FIGHT ... With Intervening Customer

Another brazen display of thievery at a Walgreens went down this week in the Bay Area -- but the difference now ... someone actually tried doing something, with nutritious help.

Check out this wild video of a guy literally going behind the checkout counter at one of these drug stores in the Richmond District of SF -- where these types of smash and grab thefts have become all too common ... with little to no resistance by anyone there.

Per usual, the dude is having his way back there ... snatching up whatever he can and throwing it in a bag, all while the staff standby and call 911 right next to him.

However, this time ... it looks like somebody was sick of playing bystander and wanted to get in the mix a bit, to at least let the thief know -- hey, this isn't cool ... and also, screw you! And so ... they got into a food fight of sorts, with fruit being the first weapon of choice.

 

[Hermit]

Quote copied from the Cancel culture thread because it and my reply is not about cancel culture.

I know that people have been shut out, cancelled or whatever you want to call it prior to now. I was only interested in discussing this newest version of cancel culture, not what happened 70 or 700 years ago. I guess I had foolishly hoped we had learned from the past so this new era of diminishing the worth of respectable people was very disappointing to me. Plus, it's been getting a lot of attention lately. To me, it's sad that we can't learn from each other and forgive each other when there is a misunderstanding or in some cases, simply ignorance.

It's a trend that will abate like others, such as the inquisitions, the witch-hunts, the McCarthy era and so forth, have.

@southernhybrid, I do agree with you. The example of cancel culture cited in the OP is an absurd, unjustified reaction to what at worst can be described a result of tone deafness.

This, however, is just silly.

...the spike in crime in the. US...

Crime rates in the US have almost halved in the past 30 years. If there has been an increase in the most recent two and a bit years not shown on the graph, my guess is it can at most be described as a spikelet.

Your graph ends in 2019. The big surge in violent crime began around 2020. I wake up each day to read of the most violent, insane things happening in Atlanta almost everyday. For example [snipped]

Yes, the overall crime rate in the US has increased from 2020 onwards. The murder rate is of particular concern Last September The Atlantic reported a jump of nearly 30%, bringing the rate up to 6.5 murders per 100,000 people. It stood at 5.0 in 2018 and 2019. Alarming as it is, the US had it worse. Much worse. In the 30 years between 1968 and 1997 the murder rate ranged from 6.8 to 10.2 per 100,000, and in 14 of those years it was 9.0 or above. The lowest murder rate in the USA since 1960 was 4.6. The current rate is much closer to that than the highest.

Looking at the big picture, I wouldn't let sensationalistic headlines and the steady stream of anecdotal reports of murders upset me too much. The threat of domestic terrorism and the possibility of a civil war are a lot more worrisome. The right wing in the US is moving toward it, and it's not just a small but growing number of right wing militia members. Several members of Congress and an ex-President of the US are encouraging it via explicit statements or dog-whistling. Nothing much has actually happened yet, but I regard the storming of the Capitol last January as the starting gun and a portent of worse to come.

 

[southernhybrid]

Quote copied from the Cancel culture thread because it and my reply is not about cancel culture.

I know that people have been shut out, cancelled or whatever you want to call it prior to now. I was only interested in discussing this newest version of cancel culture, not what happened 70 or 700 years ago. I guess I had foolishly hoped we had learned from the past so this new era of diminishing the worth of respectable people was very disappointing to me. Plus, it's been getting a lot of attention lately. To me, it's sad that we can't learn from each other and forgive each other when there is a misunderstanding or in some cases, simply ignorance.

It's a trend that will abate like others, such as the inquisitions, the witch-hunts, the McCarthy era and so forth, have.

@southernhybrid, I do agree with you. The example of cancel culture cited in the OP is an absurd, unjustified reaction to what at worst can be described a result of tone deafness.

This, however, is just silly.

...the spike in crime in the. US...

Crime rates in the US have almost halved in the past 30 years. If there has been an increase in the most recent two and a bit years not shown on the graph, my guess is it can at most be described as a spikelet.

Your graph ends in 2019. The big surge in violent crime began around 2020. I wake up each day to read of the most violent, insane things happening in Atlanta almost everyday. For example [snipped]

Yes, the overall crime rate in the US has increased from 2020 onwards. The murder rate is of particular concern Last September The Atlantic reported a jump of nearly 30%, bringing the rate up to 6.5 murders per 100,000 people. It stood at 5.0 in 2018 and 2019. Alarming as it is, the US had it worse. Much worse. In the 30 years between 1968 and 1997 the murder rate ranged from 6.8 to 10.2 per 100,000, and in 14 of those years it was 9.0 or above. The lowest murder rate in the USA since 1960 was 4.6. The current rate is much closer to that than the highest.

Looking at the big picture, I wouldn't let sensationalistic headlines and the steady stream of anecdotal reports of murders upset me too much. The threat of domestic terrorism and the possibility of a civil war are a lot more worrisome. The right wing in the US is moving toward it, and it's not just a small but growing number of right wing militia members. Several members of Congress and an ex-President of the US are encouraging it via explicit statements or dog-whistling. Nothing much has actually happened yet, but I regard the storming of the Capitol last January as the starting gun and a portent of worse to come.

Yes. We may be in for much bigger problems than an increase in the murder rate. Still it's hard to see drive by shooting happening on an almost daily basis on the roads in ATL, as well as children being shot just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Our idiots Republican Congress and governor are about to allow anyone to carry concealed without a background check or a permit of any kind. I feel safe where I live, as most of us get along very well together, regardless of race or political leanings.

I'm not quite as negative as you regarding an approaching civil war. I think that's been overly hyped and while we certainly should be concerned about the rise in white supremacy, I think the numbers who have joined these horrid organizations is a small percentage of people. One thing that gives me hope is that Trump's numbers are slowly falling while Biden's numbers had a huge boost last week, including among a small percentage of those who claim they are Republicans. That gives me hope that we will move on from the disastrous Trump years. My biggest hope is that he will be charged with a crime in the near future. Of course, I could be wrong.

My biggest concern right now are the attempts to suppress the vote. I'm worried that too many people will use the excuse that their vote doesn't count and then refuse to vote. I've seen that so many times here. Stacey Abrams and her organizations motivated a huge number of people to vote for the first time in the last election, but I'm already hearing friends say that their children don't want to vote again etc. etc. That worries me. It's exactly what the Republicans want. I wish we had mandatory voting like you do in your country.