Breakdown In Civil Order

[Derec]

Seriously though - to what do you attribute the lowering of the inflation rate from 9% to 2.5% in less than three years, if not the "spendapalooza" (I think that's the infrastructure bill) of the inflation reduction act?

Monetary policy, i.e. the Fed finally raising the interest rates, and quite steeply too.


Government spending is generally inflationary, as it increases money sloshing around in the economy.

Knocking down the American inflation rate by two thirds while there's still global inflation from the Trump/Chyyna pandemic is no mean feat IMHO. Why are people so reticent to give credit where it's due? You can't blame inflation on Biden/Harris, then attribute its control to other factors. Blaming it on Biden/Harris in the first place is pretty silly. It peaked less than a year and a half after their administration began.

Year and a half is more than 1/3 of the presidential term. And yes, Biden/Harris policies can certainly be blamed for part of the inflation. The Pandemic era spending such as extra unemployment money and extra child tax credits were kept on long after the economy reopened. That is inflationary.

Who thinks Presidents can just cause instant inflation anyhow? Let alone GLOBAL inflation?
That takes years of fucking up, in reality. Thanks, Donald.

Pandemic played a big role in the global inflation, but so did actions by governments, including US federal government.
Trump was certainly not to blame for this inflation as he wasn't even in office.

Biden certainly wasn't perfect as president. His biggest fault was that he was too accommodating to his party's left fringe. Remember when he extended the eviction moratorium (even though he knew he did not have the authority to do that) just because of pressure by Cori Bush?

 

[Jarhyn]

I'll point out, we bleeding heart hippie liberals have said what our solution would be. We are quite solution forward... It's just that for whatever reason those solutions received a "hard no" from the right. There aren't really many other places to go from there, though, beyond creating a "crossroad camp" where people can decide what to do with their life, get education, get medical help, etc. and take as long as they need to do that.

The other options would generally be "making them someone else's problem by giving them bus tickets", which resulted in the inundation of certain places with large homeless populations that camp and regularly see their camps cleared; putting them in mental health facilities and forcing them to "conform" against their consent; putting them in prison camps; putting them in work camps; putting them in death camps.

People do not need their freedom curtailed simply for the sin of not living like most people do, nor do they need to be forced to do so. The worst part is that many years ago, I remember for the first time proposing that we do something so economically "useless" as capturing carbon and putting it in a hole, not to use it later but because we fucked up and this is the price we pay. I was told at length that this couldn't happen, that without some economic benefit humans would never do such a thing nor should they. I can't remember if it was Dismal or Derec who said as much, but I think it was one of those two?

So I am struck with the fact that certain parties would balk at the suggestion we would be so humane as to house and feed people at that scale as we create the homeless in this country without expecting something out of it to the benefit of the people providing the dubious "charity", nor would I consent through inaction to the forcible internment of such people to such a cause.

Certainly this is played out by the fact that cults tend to use such operations as recruitment drives for vulnerable persons.

We have presented numerous options. Just fucking pick something real and effective and say "let's do it!"

 

[TSwizzle]

Yes, I know Emily claims not to be a conservative, but what she's angry about is that conservatives are being falsely accused of calling for fascist solutions. If she's right that this is unreasonable, she doesn't just need to clarify her own "liberal" position on carceral state solutions, but to demonstrate that the people she's angrily defending also do not support mass incarceration.

lol, behave yourself. You (and you are not alone in this) throw out bullshit statements that nobody on here has said or defended and attribute to imaginary people that are friends of Emily and say Emily is defending it?!

lol. You’re all over the place. So silly too.

So, now we have a new valiant but vague defender.

Go ahead. Correct me. What is the proposed Republican solution to homelessness,

I don’t know what it is but I know it won’t involve ovens and mass graves or whatever other bullshit hyperbole you and others throw out there.

 

[thebeave]

Yes, I know Emily claims not to be a conservative, but what she's angry about is that conservatives are being falsely accused of calling for fascist solutions. If she's right that this is unreasonable, she doesn't just need to clarify her own "liberal" position on carceral state solutions, but to demonstrate that the people she's angrily defending also do not support mass incarceration.

lol, behave yourself. You (and you are not alone in this) throw out bullshit statements that nobody on here has said or defended and attribute to imaginary people that are friends of Emily and say Emily is defending it?!

lol. You’re all over the place. So silly too.

So, now we have a new valiant but vague defender.

lol, just calling out your bullshit fella.

Go ahead. Correct me. What is the proposed Republican solution to homelessness,

I don’t know what it is but I know it won’t involve ovens and mass graves or whatever other bullshit hyperbole you and others throw out there.

I'm surprised Politesse didn't mention Soylent Green as a Republican solution to the homeless problem...

 

[Politesse]

Yes, I know Emily claims not to be a conservative, but what she's angry about is that conservatives are being falsely accused of calling for fascist solutions. If she's right that this is unreasonable, she doesn't just need to clarify her own "liberal" position on carceral state solutions, but to demonstrate that the people she's angrily defending also do not support mass incarceration.

lol, behave yourself. You (and you are not alone in this) throw out bullshit statements that nobody on here has said or defended and attribute to imaginary people that are friends of Emily and say Emily is defending it?!

lol. You’re all over the place. So silly too.

So, now we have a new valiant but vague defender.

lol, just calling out your bullshit fella.

Go ahead. Correct me. What is the proposed Republican solution to homelessness,

I don’t know what it is but I know it won’t involve ovens and mass graves or whatever other bullshit hyperbole you and others throw out there.

I'm surprised Politesse didn't mention Soylent Green as a Republican solution to the homeless problem...

Cannibalism and cyclical mass incarceration of the homeless are, in your mind, equally reprehensible ideas?

 

[TSwizzle]

Yes, I know Emily claims not to be a conservative, but what she's angry about is that conservatives are being falsely accused of calling for fascist solutions. If she's right that this is unreasonable, she doesn't just need to clarify her own "liberal" position on carceral state solutions, but to demonstrate that the people she's angrily defending also do not support mass incarceration.

lol, behave yourself. You (and you are not alone in this) throw out bullshit statements that nobody on here has said or defended and attribute to imaginary people that are friends of Emily and say Emily is defending it?!

lol. You’re all over the place. So silly too.

So, now we have a new valiant but vague defender.

lol, just calling out your bullshit fella.

Go ahead. Correct me. What is the proposed Republican solution to homelessness,

I don’t know what it is but I know it won’t involve ovens and mass graves or whatever other bullshit hyperbole you and others throw out there.

I'm surprised Politesse didn't mention Soylent Green as a Republican solution to the homeless problem...

Cannibalism and cyclical mass incarceration of the homeless are, in your mind, equally reprehensible ideas?

lol. I have no idea where the fuck you are going with this, is there no end to your silliness?

 

[Jarhyn]

Yes, I know Emily claims not to be a conservative, but what she's angry about is that conservatives are being falsely accused of calling for fascist solutions. If she's right that this is unreasonable, she doesn't just need to clarify her own "liberal" position on carceral state solutions, but to demonstrate that the people she's angrily defending also do not support mass incarceration.

lol, behave yourself. You (and you are not alone in this) throw out bullshit statements that nobody on here has said or defended and attribute to imaginary people that are friends of Emily and say Emily is defending it?!

lol. You’re all over the place. So silly too.

So, now we have a new valiant but vague defender.

lol, just calling out your bullshit fella.

Go ahead. Correct me. What is the proposed Republican solution to homelessness,

I don’t know what it is but I know it won’t involve ovens and mass graves or whatever other bullshit hyperbole you and others throw out there.

I'm surprised Politesse didn't mention Soylent Green as a Republican solution to the homeless problem...

Cannibalism and cyclical mass incarceration of the homeless are, in your mind, equally reprehensible ideas?

I mean, it's squeezing the life out of them for whatever fucked up belief that it will improve everyone else's life. It is twisted human sacrifice, just with extra steps added.

 

[Politesse]

Yes, I know Emily claims not to be a conservative, but what she's angry about is that conservatives are being falsely accused of calling for fascist solutions. If she's right that this is unreasonable, she doesn't just need to clarify her own "liberal" position on carceral state solutions, but to demonstrate that the people she's angrily defending also do not support mass incarceration.

lol, behave yourself. You (and you are not alone in this) throw out bullshit statements that nobody on here has said or defended and attribute to imaginary people that are friends of Emily and say Emily is defending it?!

lol. You’re all over the place. So silly too.

So, now we have a new valiant but vague defender.

lol, just calling out your bullshit fella.

Go ahead. Correct me. What is the proposed Republican solution to homelessness,

I don’t know what it is but I know it won’t involve ovens and mass graves or whatever other bullshit hyperbole you and others throw out there.

So... why are you so afraid to explain your position? I've said nothing about ovens and mass graves. Jarhyn has, but I am not Jarhyn, and it also doesn't change the fact that you and Emily refuse to clarify what your position is, while insisting that you are the victims of a cruel smear campaign. And you know, "mass graves" is not that much of a far cry from what I know to be the actual fate of homeless people who die in the prison system, in the hospitals, on the streets, so I'm not sure mass graves is that much of an exaggeration. They're cremated and buried at sea once a year, with a grim little state ceremony.

If indeed you "don't know" what your position is, then I respect your honesty I guess, but your contributions are pretty fucking useless relative to California's homeless situation, aren't they? I work with "the homeless" day in and day out as part of my regular job. I can't just throw up my hands and say "I don't know, I just hate democrats" whenever its time to have a specific discussion about policy. If you "don't know" what to do, than the least you can do is get out of the way of those who are willing to take action on social issues. Your fucking obstructionist party kills or defunds every homeless outreach program it can get its paws on, leaving us with ever fewer resources to work with when we have a student in crisis, and you're not ashamed to point fingers at Democrats for solving homelessness "wrong", but when it comes to doing anything, you fall silent and contribute nothing. The Trumpists in the county drag in Republican "experts" who waste half of every city council meaning, but never have anything to contribute aside from meaningless complaints and accusations. What the fuck good is that? Either give me a plan D, or shut the hell up about plan C.

Cannibalism and cyclical mass incarceration of the homeless are, in your mind, equally reprehensible ideas?

lol. I have no idea where the fuck you are going with this, is there no end to your silliness?

Soylent Green is people.

 

[TSwizzle]

So... why are you so afraid to explain your position?

lol, because you have already decided what my position is despite the fact I have never stated it.

I've said nothing about ovens and mass graves. {snip} And you know, "mass graves" is not that much of a far cry from what I know to be the actual fate of homeless people who die in the prison system, in the hospitals, on the streets, so I'm not sure mass graves is that much of an exaggeration.

lol, there you go again.

You seem support and vote for a party that lets thousands die on the streets.

 

[Elixir]

I don’t know what it is but I know it won’t involve ovens and mass graves or whatever other bullshit hyperbole you and others throw out there.

How about incarceration camps, Swiz? Donald Trump does not rule out building detention camps on U.S. soil for migrants in the country illegally if he wins a second White House term, he said.
Is he "just saying things" again?
How about baseless political prosecutions?
“I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the most corrupt president in the history of America, Joe Biden, and go after the Biden crime family,” - Donald Trump
More hyperbole?
I don't give a flying fuck what kind of mealy-mouthed faux moderate crap Emily spews - I don't have to swallow it. It's dangerous and could help elect the guy who wants to destroy democracy. <NOT hyperbole, Swiz.

 

[Elixir]

You seem support and vote for a party that lets thousands die on the streets.

Uh, are you looking in a mirror? Your boy did NOTHING about it. He loves having problems to blame on the other guy.

US homeless population surged under Trump.​

Homelessness among students increases 137% under Trump — the highest in years​

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[Politesse]

So... why are you so afraid to explain your position?

lol, because you have already decided what my position is despite the fact I have never stated it.

How is asking what your position is, deciding what your position is? If you want to know what I really believe, I actually don't think you are capable of forming and defending a coherent position on any social issue. Whenever I ask you for specifics on any problem, you just hit me with a rolleyes smiley and run away. My assumption, if anything, is that you are about to do exactly that.

I've said nothing about ovens and mass graves. {snip} And you know, "mass graves" is not that much of a far cry from what I know to be the actual fate of homeless people who die in the prison system, in the hospitals, on the streets, so I'm not sure mass graves is that much of an exaggeration.

lol, there you go again.

I'm just... stating a fact, dude. That is indeed what happens with the homeless dead. Do you need a citation?

You seem support and vote for a party that lets thousands die on the streets.

I'm not exactly a fan of the Democratic Party, or the party system in general. The war between the "parties" does not serve the public good, and it has steadily eroded democratic governance for centuries. I've not forgotten that the formation of the Republican- Democratic two party system nearly split this country violently in two, and I am under no illusions as to the fundamentally cynical nature of the Democrats' supposed transition to liberalism.

And as for the Democratic Party in this state, I oppose them especially (and vocally) on this particular issue. I sure as fuck do not support Gavin Newsom's current undemocratic assault on the rights of our state's homeless citizens, nor his shameful and catastrophic defunding of state and county mental health.

But the Republicans have put nothing on the table that any person of conscience could support. These mass arrests are not putting anyone who didn't have a home in a home.

 

[ZiprHead]

Smells faintly like gas chambers.

Widely held opinion: There are a whole lot of homeless people here, it's a serious problem. It's unsafe, unclean, and we need to do something about it. Just ignoring it all and letting people camp wherever they want isn't a viable solution.

Elixir & Jarhyn & Politesse: OMG, you want to murderfy the poor homeless people, you horrible evil nazi, you want to stuff them into gas chambers!!!111!111eleventyone!!!

I didn't actually say that. It's pretty obvious that the Republican "solution" to homelessness is mass incarceration, not execution.

Slavery isn't any better than execution... And let's be real, when Nazi Germany ran out of slave labor positions, they started shoveling everyone else into the gas chambers.

I'm not seeing much difference in the long run, especially since the path to the smokestacks often runs through a work camp or two.

WTH is wrong with you? Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either. Please stop pulling made up bullshit out of your ass.

Kinda sounds like you are maybe in favor of incarceration to solve homelessness. Prisoners are often used as labor paid in what can only be recognized as slave wages, if at all.

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you are proposing?

You know you are.

You know you could easily end all the speculation if you just explained exactly where you want the homeless to go. Anywhere else doesn't cut it.

 

[ZiprHead]

lol, because you have already decided what my position is despite the fact I have never stated it.

Why is that? And why don't you correct the misstated positions by explaining what exactly your position is?

 

[Elixir]

lol, because you have already decided what my position is despite the fact I have never stated it.

Why is that? And why don't you correct the misstated positions by explaining what exactly your position is?

It’s a super secret position. Swiz could tell you but then he’d have to kill you. There were some who found out about it and they’ve never been heard from again. Probably safest to just keep misrepresenting it, really.

 

[ZiprHead]

lol, because you have already decided what my position is despite the fact I have never stated it.

Why is that? And why don't you correct the misstated positions by explaining what exactly your position is?

It’s a super secret position. Swiz could tell you but then he’d have to kill you. There were some who found out about it and they’ve never been heard from again. Probably safest to just keep misrepresenting it, really.

Well, there's another breakdown in civil order.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The fact is there are a significant number of "homeless" people from other states on the streets of California cities.

Even Santa Monica?
The fact also is that there are a significant number of homeless Californians on the streets of cities in other States. I was once one of them.
So WHAT’S YOUR POINT?
Homelessness needs to be stopped by “getting rid of” people? Maybe some death camps would make you happy?
You certainly don’t want to help provide homes for them, because that would be socialism - the perennial boogeyman of your Party.

Standard Republican answer--push the problem away until it disappears in the shuffle of everyone pushing it away.

Doesn't mean it works.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Los Angeles (and California in general) is a corrupt and incompetent mess. 70% of housing procured for the "homeless" is still vacant;

A retired veteran in a wheelchair, missing a leg and suffering from multiple medical issues, arrived in Los Angeles from Missouri with hopes of "getting away from himself" and making a new start. Instead, he found himself waiting outside a vacant, abandoned hotel in Norwalk, hoping for help. It never came. He shared that he had come to L.A. because he’d heard about the city’s homeless housing and services. at least six homeless people die every day in the County. According to County Health Department records, in 2022, the last year for which numbers are available, 2,201 homeless people died. Governor Gavin Newsom directed $3.5 billion in emergency federal COVID relief funds to help cities and counties purchase motels, hotels, and apartment buildings rapidly and make them available for homeless housing. The state distributed three rounds of Homekey funds in 2021, 2022, and 2023-24. L.A. County received a total of $550 million and used the funds to help purchase 32 buildings. Earlier this year, Newsom lauded the program as “a national model for rapidly creating affordable housing for Californians in need.” However, according to an exclusive, months-long investigation by the Westside Current, as an estimated 139,151 homeless people, both locals and newcomers, occupy streets, sidewalks, beaches, parks, playgrounds, and other public spaces throughout the County, at least 1,538 of the total 2,157 Homekey rooms are vacant. This number accounts for more than 71% of all Homekey rooms. These revelations come on the heels of our previous reporting that discovered more than 1,200 vacant Homekey units owned by the City of Los Angeles.

Westside News

In other words, it's proceeding at government speed.

And I'm sure a bunch of the money that was supposed to be used for renovation got diverted to something else. And I'm sure the renovation budgets were not realistic. You always find more problems when you actually tear into it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I make no apologies, because not a single poster in this thread has expressed the vile and malignant views that you have invented for them. All you do is well poison, assign guilt by [imagined] association, and materially misrepresent other people's views. You never seem to contribute anything genuine or novel to a discussion, all you do is insult other posters incessantly by rules-lawyering the shit out the guidelines. I suppose if you want to be proud of yourself for being "clever" enough to be a bullying jerk and not getting in trouble for it, well, fine. But don't think that anybody else should be okay with your malicious behavior.

Nobody's willing to give any hint of how to actually solve the problem, just to make it go elsewhere. The problem is there isn't an elsewhere because nobody wants the problem.

The only "solution" proposed by the conservatives is The Felon's horrific solution. Is it any wonder that people think of the only answer that has been proposed??

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Kinda sounds like you are maybe in favor of incarceration to solve homelessness.

It certainly does. Good thing we gots laws against it, right? And damn those people flouting The Law!!

No one I recall has admitted to holding that view about blastocysts, etc (bolded in your text)

Fixed for accuracy. Yet the arguments I've seen to support laws that kill people and benefit exactly nobody, certainly imply such views.
I am disinclined to accept the arguments based on homeless people's "lawlessness" for the same reason: the laws Emily would use to "get rid of them" are just as draconian and harmful as the ones she supports banning abortions.

IIRC, Emily supports the terms of abortion as per Roe V. Wade. As do I, and most sensible, reasonable people. Its just late term abortions (past viability) that she has problems with (not including health of mother issues, etc). Just take her word for it, and don't assume she is hiding some secret views about it.

Sure sure. But the devil is in the details.

Feel free to elaborate. No need to be coy, Roy.

If memory serves, Emily Lake supports reproductive rights, but not Roe v Wade or at least the path of Roe v Wade to get there.