Breakdown In Civil Order

[Jarhyn]

The fact is, until those who demand that we "do something" discuss what "thing" they want "done", as long as that silence is pregnant, it's a silence pregnant with something dark.

It doesn't matter that it wasn't said, except for the fact that NOTHING has been said about what to do beyond "make space in society for the down and out" or "do something". Since "something" clearly doesn't involve making space in society for them, the alternatives seem rather bleak.

 

[Politesse]

Smells faintly like gas chambers.

Widely held opinion: There are a whole lot of homeless people here, it's a serious problem. It's unsafe, unclean, and we need to do something about it. Just ignoring it all and letting people camp wherever they want isn't a viable solution.

Elixir & Jarhyn & Politesse: OMG, you want to murderfy the poor homeless people, you horrible evil nazi, you want to stuff them into gas chambers!!!111!111eleventyone!!!

I didn't actually say that. It's pretty obvious that the Republican "solution" to homelessness is mass incarceration, not execution.

Slavery isn't any better than execution... And let's be real, when Nazi Germany ran out of slave labor positions, they started shoveling everyone else into the gas chambers.

I'm not seeing much difference in the long run, especially since the path to the smokestacks often runs through a work camp or two.

WTH is wrong with you? Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either. Please stop pulling made up bullshit out of your ass.

Indeed, this "nobody" seems extremely keen to avoid substantively explaining any plans whatsoever.

 

[Emily Lake]

The fact is, until those who demand that we "do something" discuss what "thing" they want "done", as long as that silence is pregnant, it's a silence pregnant with something dark.

No it isn't. Just because your imagination can only imagine horrors and terrors doesn't limit the rest of us.

It doesn't matter that it wasn't said, except for the fact that NOTHING has been said about what to do beyond "make space in society for the down and out" or "do something". Since "something" clearly doesn't involve making space in society for them, the alternatives seem rather bleak.

Suggestions HAVE been made. But you and your fellow travellers keep pretending they don't exist.

If you didn't seem to have such an incredibly abysmal opinion of anyone who doesn't adopt your bespoke worldview as absolute truth, perhaps you wouldn't end up in such a bleak headspace.

 

[Elixir]

Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either.

By “nobody” do you mean Donald Trump?

You’d be well served to read up on some of the shit he has promised.

The fact is, until those who demand that we "do something" discuss what "thing" they want "done", as long as that silence is pregnant, it's a silence pregnant with something dark.

It would be foolish to expect something humane like a social safety net to be promised - or even hinted at - by the dehumanization Party.
Darkness and fear are their promise, their product and their purpose. Only by causing public panic over their phantom monsters can they hope to fool the American people into giving them power.

Suggestions HAVE been made.

Yeah. “Get rid of “them”.”
Anything else?

C’mon Emily - I really want a reason to apologize, and to see the humanity in the Republican platform.

 

[Emily Lake]

Smells faintly like gas chambers.

Widely held opinion: There are a whole lot of homeless people here, it's a serious problem. It's unsafe, unclean, and we need to do something about it. Just ignoring it all and letting people camp wherever they want isn't a viable solution.

Elixir & Jarhyn & Politesse: OMG, you want to murderfy the poor homeless people, you horrible evil nazi, you want to stuff them into gas chambers!!!111!111eleventyone!!!

I didn't actually say that. It's pretty obvious that the Republican "solution" to homelessness is mass incarceration, not execution.

Slavery isn't any better than execution... And let's be real, when Nazi Germany ran out of slave labor positions, they started shoveling everyone else into the gas chambers.

I'm not seeing much difference in the long run, especially since the path to the smokestacks often runs through a work camp or two.

WTH is wrong with you? Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either. Please stop pulling made up bullshit out of your ass.

Indeed, this "nobody" seems extremely keen to avoid substantively explaining any plans whatsoever.

You seem to have an expectation that anyone who disagrees with just letting homeless people pop a squat and pop a tent wherever they feel like while being exempted from laws regarding public use of alcohol or drugs, expectations of sanitation, etc. should only be allowed to hold those positions if they provide you with an itemized outline of exactly how to fix everything. You also seem to be laboring under the belief that a failure of those people to provide you with a report of their plan (documented in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters) must therefore want to execute all homeless people in gas chambers.

 

[Emily Lake]

Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either.

By “nobody” do you mean Donald Trump?

You’d be well served to read up on some of the shit he has promised.

The fact is, until those who demand that we "do something" discuss what "thing" they want "done", as long as that silence is pregnant, it's a silence pregnant with something dark.

It would be foolish to expect something humane like a social safety net to be promised - or even hinted at - by the dehumanization Party.
Darkness and fear are their promise, their product and their purpose. Only by causing public panic over their phantom monsters can they hope to fool the American people into giving them power.

Suggestions HAVE been made.

Yeah. “Get rid of “them”.”
Anything else?

C’mon Emily - I really want a reason to apologize, and to see the humanity in the Republican platform.

Dude, you can hate on the republican platform all you want. I don't need any apology for you hating the republican platform.

I would, however, very much like you to stop assuming that I am a republican, and I would like you to stop insinuating the views that you believe republicans hold are held by me.

I think you're wrong about the beliefs and motivations of most republicans. I don't think you know your enemy at all. But aside from that, you have a very nasty habit of assuming that disagreement with any progressive - not liberal, but progressive - policy means that the person you're interacting with is completely in love with every single fucking thing Trump has ever said.

Like this above - We are having a discussion, on a discussion forum, on the internet. You're interacting with actual people. You have taken it upon yourself to imply some extremely horrible beliefs to your fellow IIDB members, without cause, without justification, and without support. And when you're challenged about that, and it's pointed out that your malicious assumptions are wrong and misplaced... you fall back to some inane claim about Trump. Well, guess what? I'm not Trump, TSwizzle isn't Trump, not a single fucking poster here on IIDB is Trump. So if you want to criticize TRUMP then be fucking explicit about it, and stop aiming your ejaculated hatred at other posters.

 

[Elixir]

You seem to have an expectation that anyone who disagrees with just letting homeless people pop a squat and pop a tent wherever they feel like while being exempted from laws regarding public use of alcohol or drugs, expectations of sanitation, etc. should only be allowed to hold those positions if they provide you with an itemized outline of exactly how to fix everything

So, nobody is buying “get rid of them” as a sufficient plan.
Nor does saying “other suggestions have been made” fix anything (especially when you’re unable to iterate said suggestions).
So we are left with “get rid of them” if we rely on you.
I really like the “while being exempted from laws” part, from a partisan who PRESUMABLY* would elect a career criminal who has been convicted of 34 felonies, has 88 open indictments against him and has never spent a night in jail.

* based on constant criticism of the Enemies of Apricot, plus complete and utter lack of expressed concern about his intent to end democracy.

 

[TomC]

You seem to have an expectation that anyone who disagrees with just letting homeless people pop a squat and pop a tent wherever they feel like while being exempted from laws regarding public use of alcohol or drugs, expectations of sanitation, etc. should only be allowed to hold those positions if they provide you with an itemized outline of exactly how to fix everything

So, nobody is buying “get rid of them” as a sufficient plan.
Nor does saying “other suggestions have been made” fix anything (especially when you’re unable to iterate said suggestions).
So we are left with “get rid of them” if we rely on you.
I really like the “while being exempted from laws” part, from a partisan who PRESUMABLY* would elect a career criminal who has been convicted of 34 felonies, has 88 open indictments against him and has never spent a night in jail.

* based on constant criticism of the Enemies of Apricot, plus complete and utter lack of expressed concern about his intent to end democracy.

This post is an excellent example of exactly what Emily is talking about.
Adding "PRESUMABLY" doesn't really change much.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

This post is an excellent example of exactly what Emily is talking about.

So what?
I’m waiting for those “other suggestions” that would obviate “get rid of them” as the ONLY “solution” offered.

 

[TSwizzle]

Insufferable prick Gavin Newsom freaks out that voters in California will vote in favor of Prop 36;



Prop 36 will roll back much of the "Safe Neighborhoods and Schools Act" Prop 47 which was enacted 10 years ago and got us to where we are now, massive retail theft and "homeless" junkies shitting in the streets etc.

Newsom HATES democracy. He did his best to stop the initiative getting on the ballot. Prick.

Incidentally, current VP and presidential candidate dopey Kamala Harris was involved in writing the disastrous Prop47. No surprise she has yet to comment on it's potential repeal when asked.

 

[Politesse]

Smells faintly like gas chambers.

Widely held opinion: There are a whole lot of homeless people here, it's a serious problem. It's unsafe, unclean, and we need to do something about it. Just ignoring it all and letting people camp wherever they want isn't a viable solution.

Elixir & Jarhyn & Politesse: OMG, you want to murderfy the poor homeless people, you horrible evil nazi, you want to stuff them into gas chambers!!!111!111eleventyone!!!

I didn't actually say that. It's pretty obvious that the Republican "solution" to homelessness is mass incarceration, not execution.

Slavery isn't any better than execution... And let's be real, when Nazi Germany ran out of slave labor positions, they started shoveling everyone else into the gas chambers.

I'm not seeing much difference in the long run, especially since the path to the smokestacks often runs through a work camp or two.

WTH is wrong with you? Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either. Please stop pulling made up bullshit out of your ass.

Indeed, this "nobody" seems extremely keen to avoid substantively explaining any plans whatsoever.

You seem to have an expectation that anyone who disagrees with just letting homeless people pop a squat and pop a tent wherever they feel like while being exempted from laws regarding public use of alcohol or drugs, expectations of sanitation, etc. should only be allowed to hold those positions if they provide you with an itemized outline of exactly how to fix everything. You also seem to be laboring under the belief that a failure of those people to provide you with a report of their plan (documented in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters) must therefore want to execute all homeless people in gas chambers.

Triplicate? It would only take a simple sentence or two clarify what you mean (and one more demonstrate that the Republicans whose honor you're defending agree with you). All this mock offense theater of yours does nothing but waste everyone's time.

 

[ZiprHead]

Smells faintly like gas chambers.

Widely held opinion: There are a whole lot of homeless people here, it's a serious problem. It's unsafe, unclean, and we need to do something about it. Just ignoring it all and letting people camp wherever they want isn't a viable solution.

Elixir & Jarhyn & Politesse: OMG, you want to murderfy the poor homeless people, you horrible evil nazi, you want to stuff them into gas chambers!!!111!111eleventyone!!!

I didn't actually say that. It's pretty obvious that the Republican "solution" to homelessness is mass incarceration, not execution.

Slavery isn't any better than execution... And let's be real, when Nazi Germany ran out of slave labor positions, they started shoveling everyone else into the gas chambers.

I'm not seeing much difference in the long run, especially since the path to the smokestacks often runs through a work camp or two.

WTH is wrong with you? Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either. Please stop pulling made up bullshit out of your ass.

Indeed, this "nobody" seems extremely keen to avoid substantively explaining any plans whatsoever.

You seem to have an expectation that anyone who disagrees with just letting homeless people pop a squat and pop a tent wherever they feel like while being exempted from laws regarding public use of alcohol or drugs, expectations of sanitation, etc. should only be allowed to hold those positions if they provide you with an itemized outline of exactly how to fix everything. You also seem to be laboring under the belief that a failure of those people to provide you with a report of their plan (documented in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters) must therefore want to execute all homeless people in gas chambers.

Wow. Strawman much?

 

[LoAmmo]

More heat than light emanating from this discussion, but…maybe that simply reflects that people on “both sides” (if we may simplify, for convenience’s sake, our audience into the binary “Liberal vs. Conservative” labels) not only hold passionate feelings about the issue, but almost inherently ascribe very different causes for it.

To again perhaps oversimplify for discussion’s sake, Liberals tend to mostly blame systemic inequalities: Homelessness is the fault of a hyper-competitive capitalist system, income disparity, pervasive racism, lack of affordable housing, underfunded (or non-existent) mental health resources.
Conservatives tend to mostly blame personal failings: Homelessness is the fault of irresponsible life choices, lack of personal responsibility or financial planning, self-inflicted drug and alcohol addiction, overly “woke” or permissive Blue cities that tolerate these outcasts.

The thing is, I think, that neither side is either fully right or fully wrong. I think, very generally, that Liberals want to address “the system” while looking past the individual responsibility component, and Conservatives want to address “the homeless” (themselves, and their irresponsible personal behavior) while looking past the system.

Finding solutions that don’t inherently outrage the other half of the country is thus an unenviable position to find ourselves in, but…that’s where we are.
A dose of letting go of what “our side” believes, and seeing some of the logic of what “they” believe, would certainly go a long way towards helping solve the problem.

…And would allow for a more centric, compromise approach than either of the wildly polar extremes being bandied about
(“Let’s just gas them all, or make them slaves,” vs. “Let’s give them all money and build them all a free house.”)

In the real world, it’s not a simplistic problem, and there will be no simplistic fix.
Even in the most cooperative and collaborative of environments, it would be an exceptionally thorny issue to solve, with myriad complications and unintended side effects. And we certainly don’t live in that environment now. As a microcosm of that larger society, the pages of this forum are probably a hopelessly misguided place to demand of a member, “So what’s YOUR fix for homelessness, smart guy?”

Unfortunately, “doing nothing” is not a solution either…

 

[Elixir]

I’m still waiting for the list of people (non-lawyers) who benefit from abortion laws.
The question has not been addressed, nor has the idea of personhood from conception been asserted.

Until there is some cogent response to the question, I would decline her advice on what constitutes just law.

 

[thebeave]

I’m still waiting for the list of people (non-lawyers) who benefit from abortion laws.
The question has not been addressed, nor has the idea of personhood from conception been asserted.

Until there is some cogent response to the question, I would decline her advice on what constitutes just law.

Who are you talking to? Are you in the right thread?

 

[Elixir]

I’m still waiting for the list of people (non-lawyers) who benefit from abortion laws.
The question has not been addressed, nor has the idea of personhood from conception been asserted.

Until there is some cogent response to the question, I would decline her advice on what constitutes just law.

Who are you talking to? Are you in the right thread?

“while being exempted from laws”

 

[TomC]

I’m still waiting for the list of people (non-lawyers) who benefit from abortion laws.
The question has not been addressed, nor has the idea of personhood from conception been asserted.

Until there is some cogent response to the question, I would decline her advice on what constitutes just law.

Who are you talking to? Are you in the right thread?

“while being exempted from laws”

The question remains.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

I’m still waiting for the list of people (non-lawyers) who benefit from abortion laws.
The question has not been addressed, nor has the idea of personhood from conception been asserted.

Until there is some cogent response to the question, I would decline her advice on what constitutes just law.

Who are you talking to? Are you in the right thread?

“while being exempted from laws”

The question remains.
Tom

The question in which I am interested is how can civil order exist or be maintained while members of the supposedly civil society consider people who HAVE NO CHOICE about where to sleep, eat or shit, to be flouting "the law" while lauding "the law" that kills people.
Every single one of those people who conservatives (other than Emily apparently) tell us they want to "get rid of", is IMO more valuable than the sum total of every blatocyst, embryo and fetus that never took a breath, as is every woman who dies while waiting for care as she approaches death closely enough to be considered in need of care.
The fact that the imposed priorities of non-sentient blobs of protoplasm are raised above the humanity of people who have nowhere to shit, is simply despicable.
IMHO of course.
YMMV.
Does that connect the dots for you Tom?
Maybe I'm just tired of dishonest brokers in conversation.

 

[Toni]

Smells faintly like gas chambers.

Widely held opinion: There are a whole lot of homeless people here, it's a serious problem. It's unsafe, unclean, and we need to do something about it. Just ignoring it all and letting people camp wherever they want isn't a viable solution.

Elixir & Jarhyn & Politesse: OMG, you want to murderfy the poor homeless people, you horrible evil nazi, you want to stuff them into gas chambers!!!111!111eleventyone!!!

I didn't actually say that. It's pretty obvious that the Republican "solution" to homelessness is mass incarceration, not execution.

Slavery isn't any better than execution... And let's be real, when Nazi Germany ran out of slave labor positions, they started shoveling everyone else into the gas chambers.

I'm not seeing much difference in the long run, especially since the path to the smokestacks often runs through a work camp or two.

WTH is wrong with you? Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either. Please stop pulling made up bullshit out of your ass.

Kinda sounds like you are maybe in favor of incarceration to solve homelessness. Prisoners are often used as labor paid in what can only be recognized as slave wages, if at all.

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you are proposing?

 

[TSwizzle]

Smells faintly like gas chambers.

Widely held opinion: There are a whole lot of homeless people here, it's a serious problem. It's unsafe, unclean, and we need to do something about it. Just ignoring it all and letting people camp wherever they want isn't a viable solution.

Elixir & Jarhyn & Politesse: OMG, you want to murderfy the poor homeless people, you horrible evil nazi, you want to stuff them into gas chambers!!!111!111eleventyone!!!

I didn't actually say that. It's pretty obvious that the Republican "solution" to homelessness is mass incarceration, not execution.

Slavery isn't any better than execution... And let's be real, when Nazi Germany ran out of slave labor positions, they started shoveling everyone else into the gas chambers.

I'm not seeing much difference in the long run, especially since the path to the smokestacks often runs through a work camp or two.

WTH is wrong with you? Nobody has suggested slavery for the homeless either. Please stop pulling made up bullshit out of your ass.

Kinda sounds like you are maybe in favor of incarceration to solve homelessness. Prisoners are often used as labor paid in what can only be recognized as slave wages, if at all.

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you are proposing?

You know you are.