Charlie Kirk shot at (shot?) in Utah

[laughing dog]

The fact is, we have no idea why Kirk was killed.

We have some inkling.

Sure about? Everything is almost pure speculation at this writing,

Given that the person they arrested as the shooter appears to be conservative/christian

His parents seem to be, but he himself is a leftist by all accounts.

and—no surprise: white and male—

It would not be a Toni post without her denigrating white men.
When Iryna Zarutska was murdered, did you go "and—no surprise: a black man with a lengthy rap sheet!—"?
When Chandra Nagamallaiah was decapitated, did you go "and—no surprise: a Hispanic illegal who should have been deported a long time ago!—"?
No, of course you did not. You reserve your derision for white men specifically, even though whites are heavily underrepresented in homicides and other violent crimes.

my best guess is that he was doing it for shits and giggles and mostly fame.

Doubtful. That's a heavy price to pay for "shits and giggles".

Why not give the whining about your perceived injustices attributed to men and whataboutisms a rest for awhile? It will improve the quality of your discourse.

 

[Derec]

Almost certainly, if the assassination and the subsequent Great War had not happened,

The Great War (or Big European Kerfuffle) would have happened with our without the assassination. I like how Edward Blackadder put it.

Serbia would have been absorbed into either the Austro-Hungarian or the Ottoman Empires; Instead Serbia outlived both by over a century (and counting). It was one of the most effective political assassinations in history.

Serbia kicked the Ottoman Turks out some time earlier, and the Empire was reduced to pretty much the present Turkish borders on the European side.

Twenty million deaths is quite a bit of collateral damage, though.

As I said, the War would have happened anyway, just with a different trigger to set the whole thing in motion. But the system of the two alliances was too unstable to hold too long.

 

[Emily Lake]

I'm concerned about the increasing view among younger people that violence like this is justifiable and acceptable. It bodes poorly for our future.

 

[blastula]

Seeing people saying that the memes inscribed on the casing are popular among 'groypers' which are fans of Nick Fuentes. So it is fascists killing fascists. Apparently Fuentes and Kirk didn't like each other.

But he's also reported to have complained that Kirk was full of hate. A groyper wouldn't say that. They wouldn't say anything anti-fascist neither. Unless he's trying to do some kind of fake out, but then that's leaning on far too much mind reading. We'll have to wait till there's more information.

Also grok is an idiot.

 

[Elixir]

I'm concerned about the increasing view among younger people that violence like this is justifiable and acceptable. It bodes poorly for our future.

Master of understatement.
The acceptability of “second amendment solutions” has orange roots.

 

[Toni]

The fact is, we have no idea why Kirk was killed.

We have some inkling.

Sure about? Everything is almost pure speculation at this writing,

Given that the person they arrested as the shooter appears to be conservative/christian

His parents seem to be, but he himself is a leftist by all accounts.

and—no surprise: white and male—

It would not be a Toni post without her denigrating white men.
When Iryna Zarutska was murdered, did you go "and—no surprise: a black man with a lengthy rap sheet!—"?
When Chandra Nagamallaiah was decapitated, did you go "and—no surprise: a Hispanic illegal who should have been deported a long time ago!—"?
No, of course you did not. You reserve your derision for white men specifically, even though whites are heavily underrepresented in homicides and other violent crimes.

my best guess is that he was doing it for shits and giggles and mostly fame.

Doubtful. That's a heavy price to pay for "shits and giggles".

Why not give the whining about your perceived injustices attributed to men and whataboutisms a rest for awhile? It will improve the quality of your discourse.
[/QUOTE]
Frankly I do not have the time you seem to have to peruse the internet for stories about men murdering women, so I am unaware of those persons you mentioned.

According to FBI stats, most crimes are committed by makes, with the category of white make comprising the largest sub group.

There is absolutely nothing that I’ve read about the suspect in the killing of Charlie Kirk that suggests he is not far to the right of his victim and that in fact the excuse for the murder seems to be that Kirk was too liberal.
I don’t understand this myself but apparently fly there is a subgroup of young mostly white men who are engaged by the idea of making their mark in the world and grabbing some fame by killing school kids or famous public figures.

Surely I am not more up to date than you about the memes quoted in the ammunition?

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[blastula]

Accoding to Grok,

https://x.com/i/trending/1966616842283204737

 

[ZiprHead]

Helldivers 2 is getting pulled into the Charlie Kirk assassination investigation

Alleged shooter had carved anti-fascist and furry memes into shell casings

www.polygon.com

The 22-year-old suspect alleged to have killed right-wing activist Charlie Kirk at Utah Valley University on Wednesday left behind some unusual clues for investigators, including one that referenced the fascist-satire shooter Helldivers 2, according to government officials.

Utah governor Spencer Cox said at a press conference on Friday that federal investigators had found engraved messages on bullet casings recovered at the crime scene, including an unfired shell that included the phrase "Hey, fascist! Catch! ↑ → ↓↓↓" — arrow symbols that match the input required to execute a stratagem in Helldivers 2. That stratagem, Eagle 500kg Bomb, lets players drop a 1,100-pound bomb that embeds itself in the ground before exploding. It's one of the more destructive special moves in the game.

 

[ZiprHead]

What is a 'groyper? What to know about Nick Fuentes' alt-right movement

Fuentes' band of extremist followers take their name from the underbelly of internet meme culture.

www.newsweek.com

The killing of conservative activist Charlie Kirk has reignited attention on a long-simmering feud within elements of the far right, particularly between Kirk and the so-called "Groyper" movement led by white nationalist Nick Fuentes.

Kirk was shot and killed on September 10 during an appearance at Utah Valley University. As authorities investigate the motive, online speculation has turned toward extremist factions that once targeted Kirk—specifically, Fuentes' "Groyper Army," which has long accused him of being insufficiently radical.

Despite his confrontational style, Kirk was frequently attacked from the right for being too moderate. During the 2019 "Groyper Wars," Fuentes' supporters disrupted Turning Point USA events, challenging Kirk on immigration and LGBTQ rights while labeling him a "gatekeeper" of establishment conservatism.

Now, as the public searches for answers in Kirk's assassination, that conflict within far-right is back in the spotlight—with renewed scrutiny on the rhetoric and influence of Fuentes and his followers.

 

[bilby]

Almost certainly, if the assassination and the subsequent Great War had not happened,

The Great War (or Big European Kerfuffle) would have happened with our without the assassination. I like how Edward Blackadder put it.

He was speaking in 1983, and satirizing the Cold War. It wasn't an analysis of the Great War at all.

Serbia would have been absorbed into either the Austro-Hungarian or the Ottoman Empires; Instead Serbia outlived both by over a century (and counting). It was one of the most effective political assassinations in history.

Serbia kicked the Ottoman Turks out some time earlier, and the Empire was reduced to pretty much the present Turkish borders on the European side.

For sure. Most likely it would have been Austria-Hungary that took over, but who knows? It's a counterfactual.

Twenty million deaths is quite a bit of collateral damage, though.

As I said, the War would have happened anyway, just with a different trigger to set the whole thing in motion.

Maybe. Maybe not - there had already been Balkan Wars in 1912 and 1913 without triggering a pan-European conflict.

As I said, it wasn't the Cold War, and wasn't the mutual deterrence regime that existed between NATO and the Warsaw Pact in 1983, when Blackadder Goes Forth was made.

But the system of the two alliances was too unstable to hold too long.

Possibly. We can never know.

 

[ZiprHead]

Video cued up showing Killer in groyper attire.

 

[blastula]

That's not groyper attire, it's the squatting slav meme. Also Pepe usage is not exclusive to groypers. The people in the video are just confirmation biasing all over the place. They are not alone, many on the left are desperately trying to make a groyper connection happen. Like this idiot, just making up shit.

 

[thebeave]

Video cued up showing Killer in groyper attire.

Don Lemon? Seriously? Surprised Don didn't suggest that the shooter on the roof was just a ruse, and it was really a mini black hole that passed through Charlie's neck.

 

[blastula]

 

[Shadowy Man]

That’s impressive that there can be new doubts about his leadership.

 

[thebeave]

I don't think he was exactly a household name before all this.

I thought he was Kirk Cameron, an Evangelical child actor (“Family Ties).
Same guy, just a bigger mouth.

Dude, you're on a roll today. Not Family Ties. Growing Pains!

But, yeah, Kirk Cameron is a bit of a dork. I guess I should be thankful someone here didn't think Captain Kirk got shot.

 

[bilby]

I'm concerned about the increasing view among younger people that violence like this is justifiable and acceptable. It bodes poorly for our future.

Do you have any evidence that that view is increasing?

It seems to me that violence has been declining for centuries, despite the technical means becoming more available to render violence deadly.

I think that any appearance of increasing violence (particularly amongst young people) is partly the age-old bias against youth that we have always seen from older and supposedly wiser folks who have more to lose, and poor memories of their own younger days; And partly the consequence of the 24x7 news cycle, and the Internet, which bombards us with tales of violence, many of which would have only been reported locally in the "good old days".

 

[Bronzeage]

Charlie Kirk shot and killed at Utah event; gunman still at large, sources say​

(CBS News 50 minutes ago)​

Who shot Charlie Kirk? Cash Paddle said he had a guy but the guy they arrested first wasn't the guy...
Trumpistani Keystone Cops 2025

When they catch the shooter, then what?
They're probably a Democrat (maybe a libberpublican) which will mean what? Open season on Utah Demoncrats?
What if they're a registered independent?
Is it worth declaring a National Emergency and sending troops into Utah to see what's going on?

No use in speculating until there is a motive. The only thing we seem to know is the shooter knew how to shoot.

Other than the fact that Charlie Kirk is dead, we can be sure that nothing else we have heard at this point is correct.

If I were to engage in baseless speculation, I suspect the culprit is a Q-Anon loyalist who is upset that Kirk crawfished on the Epstein files.

I feel like I'm still in the running for speculative motives. At least in the top five.

 

[Politesse]

Do you have any evidence that that view is increasing?

I definitely don't see our increasingly violent society as a product of youth culture, though.