Charlie Kirk shot in Utah

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Um, you know the "supposed owners" the rebels slaughtered were the entire white population of Saint Domingue, men, women and children, don't you? You know they took many of them prisoner, and then slaughtered them, don't you? You know after the initial massacres were over they announced there would be no further violence against those still alive, and when people came out of their hiding places, they were slaughtered, don't you? You're daring TSwizzle to say he doesn't consider them criminals, because...; darers go first.

It's kind of interesting that when we discuss the history of slavery in the US, there's always this lingering excuse: "oh that was just people in those times; they didn't know any better. We can't judge them on that basis." Why can't we see that defense here?

 

[Politesse]

Why do you ask somebody what he meant when what he meant was blatantly obvious, and then instead of waiting for an answer, impute the most idiotic meaning you can imagine and spend the rest of your post taking for granted that's what the person meant?

That is the only definition you provided. If you have another in mind, provide it. And I will ask why you apply one set of standards to decide whether a protestor is a fascist, then apply another to yourself. Why are you wasting time whining like a fucking toddler about being "misintrepreted" instead of just clarifying what you meant, in plain English? Tswizzle likewise refuses to clarify. Why? It's not hard for most people to call the African slave trade a bad thing.

 

[Politesse]

Um, you know the "supposed owners" the rebels slaughtered were the entire white population of Saint Domingue, men, women and children, don't you? You know they took many of them prisoner, and then slaughtered them, don't you?

I do. And I know that by exclusively defending slavers as innocent victims and exclusively condemning escaped slaves for their violent ways but not technically endorsing or condemning slavery, you're trying to bait me into falsely accusing you of a pro-slavery position, just so you can cry like a fucking baby about how mean I am and how stupid I am for assuming. Because you don't want to discuss the issue, you want attention. Wah, wah, wah. Need a binkie?

 

[Emily Lake]

You feel that those who are protesting Turning Point's attempt to subvert and control the university system

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system? Genuinely, what part of that group do you think is doing that?

If a progressive organization held college campus events with the intended aim of swaying the minds of college students to support a progressive cause, would you also view that as trying to subvert and control the university system? And do you think hordes of conservative students would show up and try to shout them down, threaten them, and instigate violence in order to keep the entire concept of progressive values out of the minds of college students?

 

[Emily Lake]

Also, the part where you refused point blank to condemn the transatlantic slave trade or support its violent overthrow, which makes your position as a moral authority deeply questionable in my opinion.

This is a stupid thing to say.

 

[laughing dog]

You feel that those who are protesting Turning Point's attempt to subvert and control the university system

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system? Genuinely, what part of that group do you think is doing that?

If a progressive organization held college campus events with the intended aim of swaying the minds of college students to support a progressive cause, would you also view that as trying to subvert and control the university system? And do you think hordes of conservative students would show up and try to shout them down, threaten them, and instigate violence in order to keep the entire concept of progressive values out of the minds of college students?

There is no need for “hordes” of students in anti-DEI states like Texas,Florida and Indiana where it takes one student to file a complaint.

 

[Elixir]

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system?

Because they basically state that aim?
The same way SDS did? They tended to get gassed and beaten by police.

 

[Emily Lake]

You feel that those who are protesting Turning Point's attempt to subvert and control the university system

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system? Genuinely, what part of that group do you think is doing that?

If a progressive organization held college campus events with the intended aim of swaying the minds of college students to support a progressive cause, would you also view that as trying to subvert and control the university system? And do you think hordes of conservative students would show up and try to shout them down, threaten them, and instigate violence in order to keep the entire concept of progressive values out of the minds of college students?

There is no need for “hordes” of students in anti-DEI states like Texas,Florida and Indiana where it takes one student to file a complaint.

Elaborate please. Are you insinuating that in Texas, for example, universities would be prohibited from hosting a progressive organization on a college campus because someone might complain? I assume I'm not following, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

ETA: Alternatively you could be saying that progressive organizations don't let white men join their cause, but that also makes no sense. Seriously, I don't know where DEI comes into this particular bit of discussion.

 

[Emily Lake]

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system?

Because they basically state that aim?
The same way SDS did? They tended to get gassed and beaten by police.

Do you have a source for this claim that Turning Point has a stated aim of trying to subvert and control university systems?

Also, what is SDS, because I'm assuming that cops don't routinely abuse safety data sheets...

 

[Politesse]

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system?

Because they basically state that aim?
The same way SDS did? They tended to get gassed and beaten by police.

Do you have a source for this claim that Turning Point has a stated aim of trying to subvert and control university systems?

Also, what is SDS, because I'm assuming that cops don't routinely abuse safety data sheets...

They are a network for doxxing and intimidating professors who don't ascribe to theocratic ideology, how is that anything other than an attempt to control the universities? What other purpose do they even have?

 

[Elixir]

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system?

Because they basically state that aim?
The same way SDS did? They tended to get gassed and beaten by police.

Do you have a source for this claim that Turning Point has a stated aim of trying to subvert and control university systems?

No Emily I have no source that claims Turning Point has a stated aim of trying to subvert and control university systems. Yawn. No authority to which to appeal, alas.
Nor did I have a source to claim that SDS had a stated aim of trying to subvert and control university systems. These are my opinions. The aims of TPUSA if stated at all, are done so in carefully couched terms, of course. Like SDS.
As Rennie Davis confided to me much later, something like subvert and control was what SDS - some of the leaders at least - had in mind.

Also, what is SDS, because I'm assuming that cops don't routinely abuse safety data sheets...

SDS was Students for Democratic Society,

AI Overview
Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) was a leading radical student organization in the United States from the early 1960s to the early 1970s, known for its activism in the New Left movement and its opposition to the Vietnam War. The group advocated for "participatory democracy" and was founded on the principles outlined in its manifesto, the Port Huron Statement. SDS organized major anti-war protests and other social justice campaigns

Some of those protests in Berkeley turned ugly, and it was very apparently because of the Police.
I knew better than to expect "stated" aims to be consilient with the actions taken to accomplish them, even as a teen.
Some things are written in 20pt bold red caps, but between the lines. If you don't look there you don't see them.

 

[Elixir]

Seriously, I don't know where DEI comes into this particular bit of discussion.

Read it again. It's a qualifier, a locator. "anti-DEI states"
DEI itself doesn't come in, or it didn't until now.

 

[laughing dog]

You feel that those who are protesting Turning Point's attempt to subvert and control the university system

In what way do you think that a conservative group having an event aimed at college students is somehow an attempt to subvert or control a university system? Genuinely, what part of that group do you think is doing that?

If a progressive organization held college campus events with the intended aim of swaying the minds of college students to support a progressive cause, would you also view that as trying to subvert and control the university system? And do you think hordes of conservative students would show up and try to shout them down, threaten them, and instigate violence in order to keep the entire concept of progressive values out of the minds of college students?

There is no need for “hordes” of students in anti-DEI states like Texas,Florida and Indiana where it takes one student to file a complaint.

Elaborate please. Are you insinuating that in Texas, for example, universities would be prohibited from hosting a progressive organization on a college campus because someone might complain? I assume I'm not following, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

I am saying only one person need complain there is too much of slant X or that viewpoint Y is being denigrated and state inquiry:action kicks in.

ETA: Alternatively you could be saying that progressive organizations don't let white men join their cause, but that also makes no sense. Seriously, I don't know where DEI comes into this particular bit of discussion.

You are right - it makes no sense.

 

[Toni]

Also, the part where you refused point blank to condemn the transatlantic slave trade or support its violent overthrow, which makes your position as a moral authority deeply questionable in my opinion.

This is a stupid thing to say.

No, ^^that^^ is a stupid thing to say.

Undoubtedly there were those who were willing to accept as moral and just to treat certain peoples like trainable livestock with a bonus, never discussed in polite company, of being able to ‘breed’ the women at will and so ‘grow’ your holdings. Laws and religion worked together to normalize this and to see it as ‘God’s will.’ I understand and accept that there were those who did not question this system but accepted it as right.

But clearly, there were many even in the deep south and even in slave holding families who disagreed, who recognized the barbarity, the inhumanity, the absolute moral wrong. Some few slave holders freed their slaves upon their own death —which begs the question of why they waited until they could no longer benefit. Was it because they felt they could best protect the enslaved while living but had grave concerns about their fate after the ‘master’ died? Or because they could not figure out a way to maintain their wealth and free slaves?

There was a very concerted effort to keep people enslaved, culturally, legally, and using religion. It was forbidden for slaves to read or write but some learned anyway, sometimes with the help and encouragement t of the master or family. Sometimes it was done in secret. Some tried to be kind and allowed slaves to choose to marry and to earn their own money. But they were still slaves, still beholden to someone else’s goodwill and permission and confined to whatever rules were laid out. Punishment would mean beatings, being sold, being separated from family, even infant children. And of course this is a very dispassionate, sanitized version of a horrible, barbaric, unjustifiable, unjustifiable practice.

That some people of the day chose not to look too closely at what was happening is doubtless true. But it is beyond reprehensible for people today to look at such a systemic violation of human rights and all tenets of decent society as anything less that abhorrent and unforgivable.

I