Comic book movie news & discussion

[Jimmy Higgins]

Idea for out-take. In room, someone calls for ‘The Captain’ to come in to the room. Captain Caveman enters, holding Thor’s hammer. “What, you expecting Steve Rogers?”

 

[Underseer]

Eh, this is about the Star Wars movies, but that's in the same wheelhouse, isn't it?



Here is a Star Wars geek mocking other Star Wars geeks for their various Internet hissy fits over the Star Wars movies.

I especially love the part when he uses past arguments of certain alt-right fanboys to argue that because Solo is making less money, they should stop making Star Wars movies that have white male protagonists.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So anyway, I know Underseer has been a bit vocal about the alt-right treatment of the latest Star Wars films. I had absolutely no idea how bad it actually was. The latest films have some glaring flaws, but for the most part, it isn't the acting.

 

[Underseer]

So anyway, I know Underseer has been a bit vocal about the alt-right treatment of the latest Star Wars films. I had absolutely no idea how bad it actually was. The latest films have some glaring flaws, but for the most part, it isn't the acting.

OMG! SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIAR! UR ATTACKING MAH FREE SPEECH!

See? See how the libtard social justice warriors viciously attack us for no reason? It's so unfair! Why won't anyone acknowledge that we are the real victims here? Why isn't anyone talking about how badly my feelings are being hurt by all of this? [/conservolibertarian]

Anyway, yeah. The white supremacists identitarians really hate the new Star Wars movies because one of the main producers is not a man, and most of the protagonists are not white males. Add to that the success of Wonder Woman, the success of Black Panther, and the existence of the Ghostbusters movie, and they're pretty much in a state of being constantly triggered.

 

[Underseer]

Dear little girls who like comic book movies,

Did you enjoy the Wonder Woman movie? I'm glad. Soon, Captain Marvel will be added to the Marvel cinematic universe and you'll get another super-duper-powerful female action hero to look up to, and that's great, however there is an important difference between Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman that needs explaining.

When Captain Marvel is introduced to the MCU, she will be the most powerful hero in the MCU.

And that's what I want to prepare you for. See, in serialized science fiction, fantasy, and/or comic book superhero story, the strongest hero gets beat up a lot, which could interfere with your enjoyment of Captain Marvel as an empowerment fantasy.

Let's imagine that you are a comic book writer for DC comics, and the editors told you to write a big crossover story that features all of DC's most popular heroes. Of course, you need to explain why all the heroes other than Superman are even in the story, because every fan will start out by asking "Well, Superman is so powerful, why doesn't he just beat up the bad guys himself? Why do the other heroes even need to be there?"

So in order to explain why the other heroes need to be there, Superman needs to either be taken out of the picture for part of the movie or get beaten up by the bad guy very early in the story in order to establish how strong the bad guy is and explain why all the heroes need to work together instead of just sending Superman out to deal with the problem by himself.

In Avengers 4, Captain Marvel will be like the Hulk in the first Avengers movie: she'll be the one who shows up and saves the day and beats up most of the bad guys. But after that, she could end up like the Hulk in Avengers 3, who got beat up really early in the movie in order to explain to the audience how powerful Thanos is and to explain why the other heroes needed to be there.

None of us have any idea what the story in the fifth Avengers movie will be like, but given how science fiction and comic book superhero stories normally work, Captain Marvel will probably get beat up early in the fifth or sixth Avengers movie in the same way Hulk got beat up by Thanos in the third Avengers movie.​

OK that was a long-winded way of trying to warn parents who might have daughters who actually enjoy superhero movies, but don't yet understand how the tropes work. Being the strongest means getting beat up a lot, and Captain Marvel will definitely be the strongest once she arrives in the MCU. Kevin Feige has already said as much.

Wonder Woman never has to worry about that, because if the writers need to beat up the strongest hero to establish how strong a villain is, Superman will get beat up, not Wonder Woman. Things will eventually be different after Captain Marvel makes an appearance.

 

[Jayjay]

If Captain Marvel ever shows up in a DC movie, the only villains that will beat up on him are Disney's lawyers. Shazam!

 

[DolphinDynasty]

If Captain Marvel ever shows up in a DC movie, the only villains that will beat up on him are Disney's lawyers. Shazam!

But Captain Marvel is getting her own film. (Oh, and Captain Marvel's a girl, who originally went by the superhero code name Ms Marvel). Just sayin',.

 

[Jayjay]

If Captain Marvel ever shows up in a DC movie, the only villains that will beat up on him are Disney's lawyers. Shazam!

But Captain Marvel is getting her own film. (Oh, and Captain Marvel's a girl, who originally went by the superhero code name Ms Marvel). Just sayin',.

I think he was talking about this guy:

 

[Underseer]

If Captain Marvel ever shows up in a DC movie, the only villains that will beat up on him are Disney's lawyers. Shazam!

But Captain Marvel is getting her own film. (Oh, and Captain Marvel's a girl, who originally went by the superhero code name Ms Marvel). Just sayin',.

I think he was talking about this guy:

Yeah, I know. The name was originally from a character whose rights were purchased by DC.

The way Marvel took the name from DC was definitely a dick movie.

But I'm definitely not talking about the character that is now known as Shazam.

 

[Underseer]

For those not familiar with the story of why there are at least eight different heroes that have used the name Captain Marvel:

Carol Danvers, the one getting a movie in the MCU

Shazam was originally known as Captain Marvel. The rights to the character was purchased by DC comics, which made a paperwork error that made it possible for Marvel comics to steal the copyright to the name if they could publish a comic book with that name fast enough.

Shazam/Billy Baston (DC), the original character to have the name

Thus was born Mar-Vell, a Kree (alien) scientist who could make himself look human. There is no need to discuss the details of the original character except that he was badly written because Marvel slapped him together at the last minute for a very cynical reason. Fans didn't like the comic book because the main character was poorly written, but they had to keep publishing it if they wanted to hold on to the copyright to the name.

Mar-Vell, copyright thief

Marvel was now in the unenviable position of being forced to publish a comic book that fans didn't actually like.

In desperation, they passed title/mantle to other characters. The name passed through five other characters (including an African-American woman) as Marvel desperately flailed around trying to find a version of the character that fans actually liked.

Monica Rambeau, who got more interesting after Marvel gave her a different superhero name

It wasn't until Marvel passed the mantle to a character that was effectively the girlfriend/sidekick of the original Captain Marvel (Ms Marvel) that Marvel hit upon a version of the hero that fans actually liked. That was how Ms. Marvel became Captain Marvel. (This also freed up use of the hero name Ms Marvel for what is now Marvel's most popular Asian hero.)

Anyway, Kevin Feige has declared that Carol Danvers will be the official Big Dog of the MCU superpower-wise (one of her powers is that the harder you hit her, the stronger she gets, so yes she can beat up the likes of Hulk or Thor), so I fully expect that at some point she will get the crap beat out of her just like what happened with the Hulk at the beginning of the third Avengers movie, and that this will happen just to establish how strong a villain is. Tropes are trope for a reason. It happened to both Hulk and Thor, and it'll eventually happen to the movie version of Superman as well as to Carol Danvers.

If there are any little girls who enjoy the Captain Marvel/Carol Danvers movie, I figure someone should soften the blow and prepare them for what it means to be the strongest hero in a serialized sci-fi franchise.

More on the different incarnations of Captain Marvel: https://geekmom.com/2018/02/many-captain-marvels-anyway/

 

[Underseer]

So anyway, I know Underseer has been a bit vocal about the alt-right treatment of the latest Star Wars films. I had absolutely no idea how bad it actually was. The latest films have some glaring flaws, but for the most part, it isn't the acting.

I don't doubt that there are non-white supremacist Star Wars fans who dislike the newer movies because they're pissy about their favorite fan-theory about Rey being the long-lost daughter of Obi Wan being wrong, or because the "Star Wars Story" movies have been legitimately muddled from convoluted development that passed the project to multiple directors, but the fact that the alt-right corner of nerd-dom has managed to co-opt the discussion about the current incarnation of the Star Wars franchise is more significant and will have far-reaching consequences.

In all likelihood, Kathleen Kennedy will be pushed out of the franchise, and whatever form the franchise takes in the future, we will have to live with the fact that some of the changes that are coming were made specifically to appease complainers that turned out to be plain old bigots white supremacists alt-right free speech warriors using 'bots to make their numbers seem greater. Yes, I'm pretty fucking pissy about that.

 

[Underseer]

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/954269-sony-developing-spider-man-spin-off-around-silk

First we found out that we're finally getting a Miles Morales movie from Sony. Then we found out that Spider-Gwen will be in the Miles Morales movie.

Now, we have news of a possible Silk movie.

As much as I love the MCU version of Peter Parker, I can't wait to see what Sony does with some of this stuff.

 

[Underseer]

What's wrong with Superman?

Superman was birthed in a time when people had a lot of anxieties about government being in the pocket of big business. The early Superman actually went after corrupt politicians and businessmen. Now Lex Luthor has become a sort of metaphor for corrupt politicians and businessmen rolled into one, but the whole "populism vs the elites" or "99% vs 1%" thing seems largely gone from the narrative, especially in movies.

DC superhero movies have suffered greatly from Snyder's attempt to turn Superman into a dark 'n gritty reflection of Batman.

But we are now once again at a time when people feel a lot of anxiety over the influence big business/rich people/the economic elites have over the government. Telling stories that deal with those anxieties should be what Superman excels at (in the same way Batman deals with people's anxieties about various forms of organized crime).

I don't follow DC comics to be honest. Have the comic books done anything to capitalize on this?

Why haven't the movies done anything to capitalize on this?

Or do you prefer Superman as an immigrant story or as a Jesus metaphor?

 

[marc]

It is interesting that if Superman was supposed to be populism vs elites, that they gave the movie to Snyder who is a follower of Ayn Rand. I don't usually follow DC, so can't say what they are doing with the characters currently.


What I'd like Superman to be is a bit more like the character All Might in the anime My Hero Acadamia. All Might is a hero who has sacrificed a lot in order to save everyone he can, because he wants to help people. In that series 80% of the population has powers for some reason. Most are minor, but some are quite powerful, and those that want to can get training to be licensed heroes. The main character Izuku wants to be a great hero like All Might, but finds out he is part of the 20% without powers. In a chance meeting with All Might, Izuku finds out one of his secrets, that All Might's power is fading. All Might sees that Izuku's true nature is to help others, regardless of the risks to himself, a true hero. So All Might reveals another secret, that he can pass on his power to one who is worthy. Not all at once, it is too much to take in one lump, but as Izuku learns to handle it he will get more power.
You can even see it in the name of his power: One For All. His arch enemy is All For One. The people vs the elite.

 

[Jayjay]

Eh. Superman is a boring character. I wouldn't mind at all if DC and WB screwed with him a little. I think Snyder's superman movie wasn't that bad, it was the sequel that tried to pull into too many different directions. Maybe if it had been a simpler movie without Batman or "cinematic universe" or death of superman, it could've worked out just fine.

The best Superman movie so far is the one with Will Smith though.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think the most interesting thing about Superman is Clark Kent. It creates neat situations when a god tries to act like a human and live amongst us. If they'd focus more on Kent instead of Superman, they'd have more compelling storylines.

 

[James Brown]

I think the most interesting thing about Superman is Clark Kent. It creates neat situations when a god tries to act like a human and live amongst us. If they'd focus more on Kent instead of Superman, they'd have more compelling storylines.

I have to agree here. Some of the better parts of the old Superman television show starring George Reeves portrayed him as Clark Kent a lot more than modern media, probably because the special effects needed were much more of a challenge. All the time Clark Kent would have to think fast to cover up his strength and invulnerability. I recall one episode when some bad guy shot Clark in the chest at close range with Lois Lane in the room. So how to explain why he's not even bleeding? Thinking quickly, he dented a metal cigarette case with his thumb that he was carrying in his shirt pocket to make it look like it deflected the bullet.

Then again, it's been explained to me that the reason Spider-Man is better than Superman is because he's the opposite. Superman is a strong, brave, heroic character who has to pretend to be a mild-mannered doofus. Peter Parker is an actual mild-mannered doofus who has to pretend to be strong, brave, and heroic. That makes him more relatable to his mild-mannered doofus audience.

One thing I don't understand: Every discussion of Superman has someone dutifully chime in that they never liked him because he's too powerful. And yet he's still one of the best-selling comic book characters, even after nearly a century. There must be something going on there.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

One thing I don't understand: Every discussion of Superman has someone dutifully chime in that they never liked him because he's too powerful. And yet he's still one of the best-selling comic book characters, even after nearly a century. There must be something going on there.

I think that it depends how into comics one is. Superman is a cool character who can do a lot of cool things and has a massive following as a result. However, with his being so powerful, the things that he does can get fairly repetitive fairly quickly. Oh look, he flew down and punched that guy really hard and won the fight. Oh look, that guy used kryptonite to weaken him and then he had to get rid of the kryptonite … and then he punched that guy really hard and won the fight. Oh look, this powerful alien showed up and he and Superman punched each other until the alien fell down.

Superman doesn't need to use a whole lot of strategy or tactics to win fights, so his battles are fairly straightforward. If you're reading a lot of Superman comics, you've probably already seen him do all the things that he's doing in that comic in previous ones, so it's a bit redundant. Batman and Spiderman and the rest of them need to think on their feet and come up with new ideas while they're in a fight and that keeps it fresh, but you need fairly convoluted scenarios in order to make Superman need to really do anything beyond flying down and punching someone really hard. Also, Lois Lane can really only fall off of buildings so many times before Superman stops rescuing her and instead goes into a four episode arc of getting her an intervention and some counselling, because there's clearly some underlying issues there.

 

[James Brown]

True. I suppose the better Superman stories are scenarios where he had to be two places at the same time.

Also, bear in mind, that his powers have seriously evolved. He originally was faster than a locomotive and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. Now he can fly at the speed of light and levitate in space. He stopped being a Super Man and started being a Demigod.

 

[marc]

Then again, it's been explained to me that the reason Spider-Man is better than Superman is because he's the opposite. Superman is a strong, brave, heroic character who has to pretend to be a mild-mannered doofus. Peter Parker is an actual mild-mannered doofus who has to pretend to be strong, brave, and heroic. That makes him more relatable to his mild-mannered doofus audience.

One thing I don't understand: Every discussion of Superman has someone dutifully chime in that they never liked him because he's too powerful. And yet he's still one of the best-selling comic book characters, even after nearly a century. There must be something going on there.

I think there are several factors. Part of a good story is being able to relate to a character. Clark Kent is acting like a regular guy, and can have some regular problems, making him more relatable. The power level does not matter so much as the challenge. As long as Superman is kept relatable, and is not just cake-walking through enemies, he can be interesting. On occasion it is satisfying to see someone who desperately deserves a beat down face someone that totally outmatches them, but not all the time.

Peter Parker as the mild-mannered doofus makes him relatable, and all his real world problems. I also consider the early Spider-Man one of the greatest heroes because in being Spider-Man resulted in 1) his friends thinking he is a coward when he disappears when trouble starts, 2) running off to save the day at a moments notice hampered his education, 3) ditto his ability to find a job, 4) double ditto his attempts at romantic relationships, 5) the one job he got regularly was to sell pictures of himself to a newspaper that regularly trashed his reputation. It was arguable that being Spider-Man was ruining his life, but he kept on doing it. He kept doing it because it was the right thing to do, no matter how much it cost him.