"Coronavirus and the US" or "We are all going to die!!!!"

[blastula]

Even if someone has symptoms, they can't know they have covid instead of something else, until they get tested

 

[angelo]

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

The full story and stats.


Coronavirus Pandemic (COVID-19)
Statistics and Research
Research and data: Hannah Ritchie, Esteban Ortiz-Ospina, Diana Beltekian, Edouard Mathieu, Joe Hasell, Bobbie Macdonald, Charlie Giattino, and Max Roser
Web development: Breck Yunits, Ernst van Woerden, Daniel Gavrilov, Matthieu Bergel, Shahid Ahmad, and Jason Crawford

 

[lpetrich]

As America struggles to reopen schools and offices, how to clean coronavirus from the air - The Washington Post

At the KIPP DC Webb campus in the Trinidad neighborhood, for instance, roughly $50,000 has been committed so far to reprogram systems to bring in more fresh air and to install UV-C lights inside large building air handlers to kill viruses, among other measures.

...
Building engineers say the most important practice is to make sure that air turns over frequently, mixing in lots of fresh air, and that it passes through filters that remove viruses.

“It’s the combination of ventilation and filtration that results in the indoor air quality,” Bahnfleth said. “So if you’ve got a good level of filtration and a good level of ventilation, that could be sufficient in a lot of environments.

Some experts also recommend electronic devices, such as UV-C lights, that kill viruses and other microorganisms that may get past the filters.

“Every 10 minutes … we’d like the air to touch a filter, or get diluted, or start to hit an electronic,” said Raj Setty, an engineer who is president and principal at Setty and Associates and is advising KIPP DC on the reopening. “Something to kill things in the air.”

...
The ultimate solution may lie in research conducted by Brenner that shows that there is a less-used wavelength of UV radiation, which he calls “far UV-C” light, that will kill viruses but will not penetrate the outer layer of human skin. That would theoretically allow the light to disinfect populated spaces.

“If you have a nice clean room at 5 in the morning, people will come into it and start coughing and sneezing,” Brenner said. “So the idea is to be able to use that to decontaminate continuously over the course of the day.” However, this idea remains under study for now, although Brenner says he thinks the safety data at this point is encouraging.

That is very welcome, working out how to make indoor spaces safe.

That should be good not only for the coronavirus, but also for organisms like the Legionnaires' Disease one.

 

[repoman]

When a person who was infected by Covid-19 or similar virus gets better and the antibodies have dropped is the a way to know that the B-cells and or? T-cells are ready to quickly ramp up more antibodies?

What if someone got infected beat it and then had no antibodies months later?

How long does the B and T memory last?

 

[southernhybrid]

Same as it ever was....

There are so many threads about the virus that I'm not sure where to put this piece, but since masks and social distancing have always been supported by the medical community, I guess this can be seen as appropriate here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/03/us/mask-protests-1918.html?action=click&module=Features&pgtype=Homepage

The masks were called muzzles, germ shields and dirt traps. They gave people a “pig-like snout.” Some people snipped holes in their masks to smoke cigars. Others fastened them to dogs in mockery. Bandits used them to rob banks.

More than a century ago, as the 1918 influenza pandemic raged in the United States, masks of gauze and cheesecloth became the facial front lines in the battle against the virus. But as they have now, the masks also stoked political division. Then, as now, medical authorities urged the wearing of masks to help slow the spread of disease. And then, as now, some people resisted.

In 1918 and 1919, as bars, saloons, restaurants, theaters and schools were closed, masks became a scapegoat, a symbol of government overreach, inspiring protests, petitions and defiant bare-face gatherings. All the while, thousands of Americans were dying in a deadly pandemic.

1918: The infection spreads.

The first infections were identified in March, at an Army base in Kansas, where 100 soldiers were infected. Within a week, the number of flu cases grew fivefold, and soon the disease was taking hold across the country, prompting some cities to impose quarantines and mask orders to contain it.

I doubt that gauze masks were very effective, but we have many more effective options these days. What I found interesting is that just like now, over 100 years ago, the same thing happened when masks and social distancing where the best options available to fight the spread of a potentially deadly pandemic. Just like now, masks became politicized and condemned by one side, while respected and supported by the other side.

Resisters complained about appearance, comfort and freedom, even after the flu killed an estimated 195,000 Americans in October alone.

Alma Whitaker, writing in The Los Angeles Times on Oct. 22, 1918, reviewed masks’ impact on society and celebrity, saying famous people shunned them because it was “so horrid” to go unrecognized.

“I have seen some persons wearing their masks for a while hanging about their necks, and then apply them to their faces, forgetting that they might have picked up germs while dangling about their clothes,” Dr. E.W. Fleming said in a Los Angeles Times report.

An ear, nose and throat specialist, Dr. John J. Kyle, said: “I saw a woman in a restaurant today with a mask on. She was in ordinary street clothes, and every now and then she raised her hand to her face and fussed with the mask.”

Sound familiar....

In January, Pasadena’s city commission passed a mask ordinance. The police grudgingly enforced it, cracking down on cigar smokers and passengers in cars. Sixty people were arrested on the first day, The Los Angeles Times reported on Jan. 22, in an article titled “Pasadena Snorts Under Masks.”

“It is the most unpopular law ever placed on the Pasadena records,” W.S. McIntyre, the chief of police, told the paper. “We are cursed from all sides.”

Some mocked the rule by stretching gauze across car vents or dog snouts. Cigar vendors said they lost customers, though enterprising aficionados cut a hole in the cloth. (They were still arrested.) Barbers lost shaving business. Merchants complained traffic dropped as more people stayed home.

It's a rather long article with photos from the pandemic of 1918. I just thought it was interesting how human behavior remains unchanged during another pandemic 100 years later.

 

[lpetrich]

Scientists Uncover Biological Signatures of the Worst Covid-19 Cases - The New York Times - "Studies of patients with severe cases of Covid-19 show the immune system lacks its usual coordinated response."

Scientists are beginning to untangle one of the most complex biological mysteries of the coronavirus pandemic: Why do some people get severely sick, whereas others quickly recover?

In certain patients, according to a flurry of recent studies, the virus appears to make the immune system go haywire.

Unable to marshal the right cells and molecules to fight off the invader, the bodies of the infected instead launch an entire arsenal of weapons — a misguided barrage that can wreak havoc on healthy tissues, experts said.

...
When a more familiar respiratory infection, like a flu virus, tries to gain a foothold in the body, the immune response launches a defense in two orchestrated acts. First, a cavalry of fast-acting fighters flocks to the site of infection and tries to corral the invader, buying the rest of the immune system time to mount a more tailored attack.

Much of the early response depends on signaling molecules called cytokines that are produced in response to a virus. Like microscopic alarms, cytokines can mobilize reinforcements from elsewhere in the body, triggering a round of inflammation.

Eventually, these cells and molecules leading the initial charge will stand down, making way for antibodies and T cells — specialized assassins built to home in on the virus and the cells it has infected.

But in bad cases of this new coronavirus, the cytokine response continues, causing a lot of trouble. It can also include the wrong type of response for a virus.

The 3 major types of innate and adaptive cell-mediated effector immunity - Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology
Has a lot of jargon, so I'll list the systems' targets:

1. Microbes that invade cells: viruses and some bacteria
2. Parasitic worms
3. Microbes that live outside of cells: many bacteria and fungi

"On the other hand, type 1 and 3 immunity mediate autoimmune diseases, whereas type 2 responses can cause allergic diseases."

People with moderate cases of Covid-19 take what seems like the most sensible approach, concentrating on type 1 responses, Dr. Iwasaki’s team found. Patients struggling to recover, on the other hand, seem to be pouring an unusual number of resources into type 2 and type 3 responses, which is kind of “wacky,” Dr. Iwasaki said. “As far as we know, there is no parasite involved.”

 

[repoman]

Scientists Uncover Biological Signatures of the Worst Covid-19 Cases - The New York Times - "Studies of patients with severe cases of Covid-19 show the immune system lacks its usual coordinated response."

Scientists are beginning to untangle one of the most complex biological mysteries of the coronavirus pandemic: Why do some people get severely sick, whereas others quickly recover?

In certain patients, according to a flurry of recent studies, the virus appears to make the immune system go haywire.

Unable to marshal the right cells and molecules to fight off the invader, the bodies of the infected instead launch an entire arsenal of weapons — a misguided barrage that can wreak havoc on healthy tissues, experts said.

...
When a more familiar respiratory infection, like a flu virus, tries to gain a foothold in the body, the immune response launches a defense in two orchestrated acts. First, a cavalry of fast-acting fighters flocks to the site of infection and tries to corral the invader, buying the rest of the immune system time to mount a more tailored attack.

Much of the early response depends on signaling molecules called cytokines that are produced in response to a virus. Like microscopic alarms, cytokines can mobilize reinforcements from elsewhere in the body, triggering a round of inflammation.

Eventually, these cells and molecules leading the initial charge will stand down, making way for antibodies and T cells — specialized assassins built to home in on the virus and the cells it has infected.

But in bad cases of this new coronavirus, the cytokine response continues, causing a lot of trouble. It can also include the wrong type of response for a virus.

The 3 major types of innate and adaptive cell-mediated effector immunity - Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology
Has a lot of jargon, so I'll list the systems' targets:

1. Microbes that invade cells: viruses and some bacteria
2. Parasitic worms
3. Microbes that live outside of cells: many bacteria and fungi

"On the other hand, type 1 and 3 immunity mediate autoimmune diseases, whereas type 2 responses can cause allergic diseases."

People with moderate cases of Covid-19 take what seems like the most sensible approach, concentrating on type 1 responses, Dr. Iwasaki’s team found. Patients struggling to recover, on the other hand, seem to be pouring an unusual number of resources into type 2 and type 3 responses, which is kind of “wacky,” Dr. Iwasaki said. “As far as we know, there is no parasite involved.”

Bill Maher interviewed a woman about diet and Covid, specifically she talked about excessive polyunsaturated fats being bad. It is hard to find the it because of censorship, and yeah there has been some quackery. But is this the case here?


But look at this journal article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17074926/

 

[angelo]

Eating most foods in moderation, except fruit & veg of course when the more the better. Most foods will not harm the body, if like I said, eaten in moderation. Anything contrary to that rule is quackery.

 

[Treedbear]

Eating most foods in moderation, except fruit & veg of course when the more the better. Most foods will not harm the body, if like I said, eaten in moderation. Anything contrary to that rule is quackery.

I love it when people say "most _____". That can mean slightly better than 50/50 chance of not killing yourself.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Scientists Uncover Biological Signatures of the Worst Covid-19 Cases - The New York Times - "Studies of patients with severe cases of Covid-19 show the immune system lacks its usual coordinated response."

But in bad cases of this new coronavirus, the cytokine response continues, causing a lot of trouble. It can also include the wrong type of response for a virus.

The 3 major types of innate and adaptive cell-mediated effector immunity - Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology
Has a lot of jargon, so I'll list the systems' targets:

1. Microbes that invade cells: viruses and some bacteria
2. Parasitic worms
3. Microbes that live outside of cells: many bacteria and fungi

"On the other hand, type 1 and 3 immunity mediate autoimmune diseases, whereas type 2 responses can cause allergic diseases."

Bill Maher interviewed a woman about diet and Covid, specifically she talked about excessive polyunsaturated fats being bad. It is hard to find the it because of censorship, and yeah there has been some quackery. But is this the case here?


But look at this journal article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17074926/

Your source says nothing about Covid, just about things that effect the immune system.

Things that are getting censored about Covid are garbage. There is a massive disinformation campaign going on and responsible people are fighting back.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Scientists Uncover Biological Signatures of the Worst Covid-19 Cases - The New York Times - "Studies of patients with severe cases of Covid-19 show the immune system lacks its usual coordinated response."

But in bad cases of this new coronavirus, the cytokine response continues, causing a lot of trouble. It can also include the wrong type of response for a virus.

The 3 major types of innate and adaptive cell-mediated effector immunity - Journal of Allergy and Clinical Immunology
Has a lot of jargon, so I'll list the systems' targets:

1. Microbes that invade cells: viruses and some bacteria
2. Parasitic worms
3. Microbes that live outside of cells: many bacteria and fungi

"On the other hand, type 1 and 3 immunity mediate autoimmune diseases, whereas type 2 responses can cause allergic diseases."

Bill Maher interviewed a woman about diet and Covid, specifically she talked about excessive polyunsaturated fats being bad. It is hard to find the it because of censorship, and yeah there has been some quackery. But is this the case here?


But look at this journal article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17074926/

Your source says nothing about Covid, just about things that effect the immune system.

Things that are getting censored about Covid are garbage. There is a massive disinformation campaign going on and responsible people are fighting back.

Yeah, we barely have enough research on what the disease is, forget about settled study to correlate it with diet!

 

[George S]

Your source says nothing about Covid, just about things that effect the immune system.

Things that are getting censored about Covid are garbage. There is a massive disinformation campaign going on and responsible people are fighting back.

Yeah, we barely have enough research on what the disease is, forget about settled study to correlate it with diet!

I disagree with the bolded bit. Things about COVID19 which are garbage ought to be publicly and loudly ridiculed. Not censored. Parents censor what their children read withholding dangerous ideas. Censorship is not adult-adult, but parent-child.

 

[repoman]

If a good diet, compared to a horrendous diet would statistically help people who contract Covid-19, even so that information bandied about recklessly in the hippy dippy lefty or Q-anon righty sets could have negative effects if not put into proper perspective.

A 15% better chance of surviving with low damage is not a cure. People can be so dumb.

 

[bilby]

Your source says nothing about Covid, just about things that effect the immune system.

Things that are getting censored about Covid are garbage. There is a massive disinformation campaign going on and responsible people are fighting back.

Yeah, we barely have enough research on what the disease is, forget about settled study to correlate it with diet!

I disagree with the bolded bit. Things about COVID19 which are garbage ought to be publicly and loudly ridiculed. Not censored. Parents censor what their children read withholding dangerous ideas. Censorship is not adult-adult, but parent-child.

Nothing is being censored.

Some truly dumb shit is being de-platformed by some popular websites and social media platforms; But nobody's making any law preventing anyone from posting any crazy shit they like on their own web page, or publishing a newsletter, distributing flyers, standing on a street corner ranting...

Content publishers have (and always have had) the right not to publish stuff they disagree with. You weren't censored by the NYT in 1918 if they refused to publish your letter to the editor decrying the stupidity of the new-fangled "germ theory" of disease, either.

You have the right to say dumb things. Everyone else has the right not to help you to widen your audience. That's not censorship.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your source says nothing about Covid, just about things that effect the immune system.

Things that are getting censored about Covid are garbage. There is a massive disinformation campaign going on and responsible people are fighting back.

Yeah, we barely have enough research on what the disease is, forget about settled study to correlate it with diet!

I disagree with the bolded bit. Things about COVID19 which are garbage ought to be publicly and loudly ridiculed. Not censored. Parents censor what their children read withholding dangerous ideas. Censorship is not adult-adult, but parent-child.

Ridicule does nothing to bots. We need the censorship because the bots are killing people in large numbers.

 

[bilby]

I disagree with the bolded bit. Things about COVID19 which are garbage ought to be publicly and loudly ridiculed. Not censored. Parents censor what their children read withholding dangerous ideas. Censorship is not adult-adult, but parent-child.

Ridicule does nothing to bots. We need the censorship because the bots are killing people in large numbers.

Still not censorship.

Bots are perfectly lawful and can post anywhere the admins allow them. If admins don't typically allow bots to post, that's their prerogative. It's not censorship unless it's required by law, or imposed by an authority upon subordinates. Facebook and Twitter users might be foolish, but they're not subordinates of those platforms. Nor are they citizens of those corporations (corporations don't have citizens).

 

[angelo]

If a good diet, compared to a horrendous diet would statistically help people who contract Covid-19, even so that information bandied about recklessly in the hippy dippy lefty or Q-anon righty sets could have negative effects if not put into proper perspective.

A 15% better chance of surviving with low damage is not a cure. People can be so dumb.

Especially when up to 30% of subjects get better using a placebo during trials on a new drug, providing they're not told all they're taking is the placebo. It's the reason why a new drug has to achieve 40% and above before a drug is considered successful.

 

[repoman]

I disagree with the bolded bit. Things about COVID19 which are garbage ought to be publicly and loudly ridiculed. Not censored. Parents censor what their children read withholding dangerous ideas. Censorship is not adult-adult, but parent-child.

Ridicule does nothing to bots. We need the censorship because the bots are killing people in large numbers.

Still not censorship.

Bots are perfectly lawful and can post anywhere the admins allow them. If admins don't typically allow bots to post, that's their prerogative. It's not censorship unless it's required by law, or imposed by an authority upon subordinates. Facebook and Twitter users might be foolish, but they're not subordinates of those platforms. Nor are they citizens of those corporations (corporations don't have citizens).

Whrn payment processors and domain registrars get involved ghen that is censorship.

 

[bilby]

Still not censorship.

Bots are perfectly lawful and can post anywhere the admins allow them. If admins don't typically allow bots to post, that's their prerogative. It's not censorship unless it's required by law, or imposed by an authority upon subordinates. Facebook and Twitter users might be foolish, but they're not subordinates of those platforms. Nor are they citizens of those corporations (corporations don't have citizens).

Whrn payment processors and domain registrars get involved ghen that is censorship.

No, that's capitalism - using your financial clout and ownership of resources to advance your own opinions and suppress those you dislike.

Every wealthy person and powerful corporation does this, and always has. It's not censorship, and it's not new.

If you think capitalism has some serious problems, you are right. But the workings of capitalism are not censorship, even when they have the effect of getting VASTLY more airtime for (eg) Rupert Murdoch's opinion, and vastly less for repoman's.

 

[skepticalbip]

Still not censorship.

Bots are perfectly lawful and can post anywhere the admins allow them. If admins don't typically allow bots to post, that's their prerogative. It's not censorship unless it's required by law, or imposed by an authority upon subordinates. Facebook and Twitter users might be foolish, but they're not subordinates of those platforms. Nor are they citizens of those corporations (corporations don't have citizens).

Whrn payment processors and domain registrars get involved ghen that is censorship.

No, that's capitalism - using your financial clout and ownership of resources to advance your own opinions and suppress those you dislike.

Every wealthy person and powerful corporation does this, and always has. It's not censorship, and it's not new.

If you think capitalism has some serious problems, you are right. But the workings of capitalism are not censorship, even when they have the effect of getting VASTLY more airtime for (eg) Rupert Murdoch's opinion, and vastly less for repoman's.

The argument from congress critters against these social media sites is exactly that they are acting as a capitalistic, competitive sites advancing their political views. They have been given special legal protections because they claimed they were only an open forum and didn't edit content (so weren't legally responsible for content). The argument is if they should be recognized as publishers, which are free to advance any views they wish, which would remove their special legal protections and put them on a legally level playing field with other publishers.

For one example: Operators of open forums can not be sued for liable or slander but publishers can.