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Covid-19 miscellany

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Europe descended into a third day of violent carnage on Sunday as tens of thousands of people in Belgium took to the streets to protest against the return of strict lockdown rules aimed at curbing a rise in Covid infections. Nearly 40,000 people descended on the capital Brussels to protest against new anti-Covid measures banning the unvaccinated from entering restaurants and bars.

DailyMail

All this talk of banning the unvaccinated from public life has a very familiar ring to it.

Yeah, it's the normal response of sensible governments to sufficiently deadly diseases.

I do not believe there is a border in the world you can cross without having to prove that you are vaccinated against certain diseases. The average first worlder rarely goes to places that will trigger the check but I've handed over my yellow card along with my passport many time because I knew I was crossing a border that would trigger the check. (Coming from a country where the disease in question exists in the wild.)
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member

The dumb sociopaths.


I suspect this is a considerable undercount as such people will tend to self-select out of polls.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Interesting. So the intelligent anti-vaxxers are actually outliers. That confirms to me that their stance is more likely to be taken as a result of personal egoism and desire to make themselves important, as they are the ones pushing the conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about that about the more intelligent sort of anti-vaxxers, even though I consider the anti-vaxx position difficult to support. Some of them may be doing as a way of owning the libs, for instance.
And that is an intelligent reason?
It's a bad reason, yes, but one might wish that they would be more willing to reassess their anti-vaxx position rather than thinking about how best they can own the libs.
Actually, it may be more related than you think. "Owning the libs" is basically an expression of personal ego. Just take a look at all those politicians who are pushing their "conservative agenda". They wouldn't do that unless they thought it would add to their public visibility and increase their importance in the eyes of their constituents. The same is true of those doctors and scientists who are pushing back against the vaccine; they have found a way to make themselves highly visible and make money too. I don't think it actually has a single thing to do with what they actually know or believe.
If you want to know what more intelligent people who reject vaccines believe, I would suggest reading their arguments. Some are just rattled because some of their freedoms are taken away in a way that interferes seriously with their lifestyle (which involves not using medicine for the most part, avoiding processed foods or other things when doable, etc.).

Technically they are my freedoms they are usurping. As they are refusing vaccination and the consequences that should come from non-vaccination. Which has fucked things up for everyone else.
 

Angra Mainyu

Veteran Member
Loren Pechtel said:
1) Flu is not a serious threat to a healthy person. They conduct medical studies in which (young, healthy) people are deliberately infected with flu. That is considered acceptable medical practice because it poses basically zero risk of serious consequences to the test subjects.
However, flu viruses kill a lot of people every year. For example, in the US here is some data frome the CDC:


Vaccination would very probably cut transmission rates - so would, by the way, the proper use of good face masks. As a result, it would save lives. I'm not sure how many, but there would definitely be fewer fatalities. Whether that happens in healthy people or not is not my point. bilby's arguments do not seem to take into consideration the fatality rate, and seem applicable to other cases as well, like the flu.

Loren Pechtel said:
2) We have already learned that getting infected doesn't produce immunity--you're immune to that version but it very well might not protect you from variants. The vaccine (other than the Chinese crap that's a killed-virus vaccine, provides about the same protection as prior infection--bad) provides better protection than prior infection.
No, we have not learned that. At least, I have not learned that, so I will ask you to provide good evidence of that. Here's a study supporting the opposite conclusion, comparing Pfizer's vaccine vs. prior infection.


Sure, you can find studies in the other direction. Jury seems to be still out on that one.

As for the "Chinese crap" , Sinopharm's vaccine is the most widely used vaccine over here, closely followed by AZ and then Sputnik. Combined they probably make up well over 90% of the vaccinations over here. And despite the government's serious negligence that resulted in many more fatalities than otherwise would have occurred, eventually things have improved a lot, the ICUs have plenty of room available, the number of daily covid fatalities has fallen sharply now is gradually falling still, with 234 fatalities in the past 14 days (out of a population of about 46 million). This is despite the fact that nearly all restrictions have been lifted - even mask wearing outdoors, though it's still mandatory indoors - and the fact that most people do not respect the remaining ones anyway. In short, the Chinese crap seems to work okay in the long run, even if it's less effective than AZ or Sputnik. But infection should work better than the dead virus vaccines, as it is with the current variant of the virus.

Incidentally, vaccination with Chinese crap is accepted by European governments and by the US government, even though the US government does not seem to count prior infection at all and demands vaccination. That does not make sense to me: Why consider people vaccinated with dead-virus vaccines immunized, but reject the same for people who recovered from the virus? I can't make sense of that one.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor

The dumb sociopaths.

Or as Kevin Sorbo once replied to “Is your freedom more important than my safety?!”
I don’t know you, my lunch is more important to me than you are.

So, where does SYG laws stand on the unvaccinated?
 

Angra Mainyu

Veteran Member
Interesting. So the intelligent anti-vaxxers are actually outliers. That confirms to me that their stance is more likely to be taken as a result of personal egoism and desire to make themselves important, as they are the ones pushing the conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about that about the more intelligent sort of anti-vaxxers, even though I consider the anti-vaxx position difficult to support. Some of them may be doing as a way of owning the libs, for instance.
And that is an intelligent reason?
It's a bad reason, yes, but one might wish that they would be more willing to reassess their anti-vaxx position rather than thinking about how best they can own the libs.
Actually, it may be more related than you think. "Owning the libs" is basically an expression of personal ego. Just take a look at all those politicians who are pushing their "conservative agenda". They wouldn't do that unless they thought it would add to their public visibility and increase their importance in the eyes of their constituents. The same is true of those doctors and scientists who are pushing back against the vaccine; they have found a way to make themselves highly visible and make money too. I don't think it actually has a single thing to do with what they actually know or believe.
If you want to know what more intelligent people who reject vaccines believe, I would suggest reading their arguments. Some are just rattled because some of their freedoms are taken away in a way that interferes seriously with their lifestyle (which involves not using medicine for the most part, avoiding processed foods or other things when doable, etc.).

Technically they are my freedoms they are usurping. As they are refusing vaccination and the consequences that should come from non-vaccination. Which has fucked things up for everyone else.

My point was about their motivation. They're not caricature villains, even though what they're doing is wrong (though if they accept infection, the matter is more difficult because it's a question of whether they can be properly confined).

By the way, do you think your argument works also for face masks? How about for the flu?
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Interesting. So the intelligent anti-vaxxers are actually outliers. That confirms to me that their stance is more likely to be taken as a result of personal egoism and desire to make themselves important, as they are the ones pushing the conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about that about the more intelligent sort of anti-vaxxers, even though I consider the anti-vaxx position difficult to support. Some of them may be doing as a way of owning the libs, for instance.
And that is an intelligent reason?
It's a bad reason, yes, but one might wish that they would be more willing to reassess their anti-vaxx position rather than thinking about how best they can own the libs.
Actually, it may be more related than you think. "Owning the libs" is basically an expression of personal ego. Just take a look at all those politicians who are pushing their "conservative agenda". They wouldn't do that unless they thought it would add to their public visibility and increase their importance in the eyes of their constituents. The same is true of those doctors and scientists who are pushing back against the vaccine; they have found a way to make themselves highly visible and make money too. I don't think it actually has a single thing to do with what they actually know or believe.
If you want to know what more intelligent people who reject vaccines believe, I would suggest reading their arguments. Some are just rattled because some of their freedoms are taken away in a way that interferes seriously with their lifestyle (which involves not using medicine for the most part, avoiding processed foods or other things when doable, etc.).

Technically they are my freedoms they are usurping. As they are refusing vaccination and the consequences that should come from non-vaccination. Which has fucked things up for everyone else.

My point was about their motivation. They're not caricature villains, even though what they're doing is wrong (though if they accept infection, the matter is more difficult because it's a question of whether they can be properly confined).

By the way, do you think your argument works also for face masks? How about for the flu?

It varies from person to person. Like the people who supported mask mandates bans in the south and helped see to 100.00 more dead Americans.
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
Authoritarians get called out on their tyranny;
Democracy is deteriorating across the world, with countries including the United States taking undemocratic and 'unnecessary' actions to contain the coronavirus pandemic, an intergovernmental body said in a new report today. 'Many democratic governments are backsliding,' the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance, or International IDEA, said. The 34-nation organization added that as of August 2021, 64 per cent of countries have taken an action to curb the pandemic that it considers 'disproportionate, unnecessary or illegal.' The report said the US was among countries which has imposed 'measures that amount to democratic violations', adding that the Covid-19 pandemic has 'accelerated and magnified' some of the negative trends.

DailyMail

The emergency powers granted during this pandemic need to be rescinded but the fascists will not relinquish control voluntarily.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Authoritarians get called out on their tyranny;
Democracy is deteriorating across the world, with countries including the United States taking undemocratic and 'unnecessary' actions to contain the coronavirus pandemic, an intergovernmental body said in a new report today. 'Many democratic governments are backsliding,' the International Institute for Democracy and Electoral Assistance, or International IDEA, said. The 34-nation organization added that as of August 2021, 64 per cent of countries have taken an action to curb the pandemic that it considers 'disproportionate, unnecessary or illegal.' The report said the US was among countries which has imposed 'measures that amount to democratic violations', adding that the Covid-19 pandemic has 'accelerated and magnified' some of the negative trends.

DailyMail

The emergency powers granted during this pandemic need to be rescinded but the fascists will not relinquish control voluntarily.
As I understand it, the majority of people in affected areas support mask and vaccine mandates. How can it then be anti-democratic?
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
In Austria, you can now get a two for;

A brothel in Vienna is providing COVID-19 vaccinations and giving those who take up the offer vouchers for a free visit. In exchange for a jab, visitors get a free 30-minute session in a "sauna club" with the "lady of their choice".

Sky News

This is the kind of society we should be aiming for, right?

Sick fucks.
 

TomC

Veteran Member
In Austria, you can now get a two for;

A brothel in Vienna is providing COVID-19 vaccinations and giving those who take up the offer vouchers for a free visit. In exchange for a jab, visitors get a free 30-minute session in a "sauna club" with the "lady of their choice".

Sky News

This is the kind of society we should be aiming for, right?

Sick fucks.
You must not know much about guys if you think this is the weirdest thing they do to get laid.
Tom
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Holy crap! One of the two Walmart stores in town is closed because of covid.

Thanks to people like Tswizzle.
 

Angra Mainyu

Veteran Member
Interesting. So the intelligent anti-vaxxers are actually outliers. That confirms to me that their stance is more likely to be taken as a result of personal egoism and desire to make themselves important, as they are the ones pushing the conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about that about the more intelligent sort of anti-vaxxers, even though I consider the anti-vaxx position difficult to support. Some of them may be doing as a way of owning the libs, for instance.
And that is an intelligent reason?
It's a bad reason, yes, but one might wish that they would be more willing to reassess their anti-vaxx position rather than thinking about how best they can own the libs.
Actually, it may be more related than you think. "Owning the libs" is basically an expression of personal ego. Just take a look at all those politicians who are pushing their "conservative agenda". They wouldn't do that unless they thought it would add to their public visibility and increase their importance in the eyes of their constituents. The same is true of those doctors and scientists who are pushing back against the vaccine; they have found a way to make themselves highly visible and make money too. I don't think it actually has a single thing to do with what they actually know or believe.
If you want to know what more intelligent people who reject vaccines believe, I would suggest reading their arguments. Some are just rattled because some of their freedoms are taken away in a way that interferes seriously with their lifestyle (which involves not using medicine for the most part, avoiding processed foods or other things when doable, etc.).

Technically they are my freedoms they are usurping. As they are refusing vaccination and the consequences that should come from non-vaccination. Which has fucked things up for everyone else.

My point was about their motivation. They're not caricature villains, even though what they're doing is wrong (though if they accept infection, the matter is more difficult because it's a question of whether they can be properly confined).

By the way, do you think your argument works also for face masks? How about for the flu?

It varies from person to person. Like the people who supported mask mandates bans in the south and helped see to 100.00 more dead Americans.
My question was about whether it's your freedom that they were usurping. And yes, good masks properly used of course work - clearly, since they block nearly all viral particles -, so without them you'll get more dead people. But it's unclear how effective a mandate is when people are just going to were bad masks and/or wear them improperly (this happens here all the time). At any rate, my question about the flu is that it also kills many people, even if covid kills many more, and your argument does not seem to distinguish on the basis of numbers.
 

lpetrich

Contributor
Austria Imposes Lockdown Amid Europe’s Covid Surge - The New York Times
Tens of thousands of people protested official crackdowns and vaccine requirements in Austria, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Italy, Switzerland and Croatia, with scattered violence and police use of tear gas and water cannons. Some protesters were organized by far-right parties, but many were simply fed up with almost two years of intermittent state controls over their lives in the name of public health.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
Interesting. So the intelligent anti-vaxxers are actually outliers. That confirms to me that their stance is more likely to be taken as a result of personal egoism and desire to make themselves important, as they are the ones pushing the conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions about that about the more intelligent sort of anti-vaxxers, even though I consider the anti-vaxx position difficult to support. Some of them may be doing as a way of owning the libs, for instance.
And that is an intelligent reason?
It's a bad reason, yes, but one might wish that they would be more willing to reassess their anti-vaxx position rather than thinking about how best they can own the libs.
Actually, it may be more related than you think. "Owning the libs" is basically an expression of personal ego. Just take a look at all those politicians who are pushing their "conservative agenda". They wouldn't do that unless they thought it would add to their public visibility and increase their importance in the eyes of their constituents. The same is true of those doctors and scientists who are pushing back against the vaccine; they have found a way to make themselves highly visible and make money too. I don't think it actually has a single thing to do with what they actually know or believe.
If you want to know what more intelligent people who reject vaccines believe, I would suggest reading their arguments. Some are just rattled because some of their freedoms are taken away in a way that interferes seriously with their lifestyle (which involves not using medicine for the most part, avoiding processed foods or other things when doable, etc.).

Technically they are my freedoms they are usurping. As they are refusing vaccination and the consequences that should come from non-vaccination. Which has fucked things up for everyone else.

My point was about their motivation. They're not caricature villains, even though what they're doing is wrong (though if they accept infection, the matter is more difficult because it's a question of whether they can be properly confined).

By the way, do you think your argument works also for face masks? How about for the flu?

It varies from person to person. Like the people who supported mask mandates bans in the south and helped see to 100.00 more dead Americans.
My question was about whether it's your freedom that they were usurping. And yes, good masks properly used of course work - clearly, since they block nearly all viral particles -, so without them you'll get more dead people. But it's unclear how effective a mandate is when people are just going to were bad masks and/or wear them improperly (this happens here all the time). At any rate, my question about the flu is that it also kills many people, even if covid kills many more, and your argument does not seem to distinguish on the basis of numbers.

It is my freedom. Much like people pooping in the pool usurping my ability to go into the pool.
 

Angra Mainyu

Veteran Member
Jimmy Higgins said:
It is my freedom. Much like people pooping in the pool usurping my ability to go into the pool.
Alright, so would the same apply to people not wearing masks/not getting vaccines against the flu?
If so, do you think the government should impose a lockdown on them as well?
If not, why would it not be your freedom?
 

Jarhyn

Contributor
I find it interesting that in fact many of us now do see and realize that wearing masks when potentially sick is just a no-brainer, and when in close contact.

We can handle an ecosystem without COVID, it is not to be seen that we can handle an ecosystem with large waves of COVID alone let alone that and flu. But I guess our species will see a filtration event if we can't get it together on this one.
 

Angra Mainyu

Veteran Member
Jarhyn said:
I find it interesting that in fact many of us now do see and realize that wearing masks when potentially sick is just a no-brainer, and when in close contact.
It isn't a no-brainer for many people - nearly all in the past where I live, and I suspect in most of the world - because of the social cost. Wearing masks in the past (pre-covid) would have had a huge social cost - being mocked, insulted, bullied, probably losing one's job for most people, etc.
Now it's different, so one can pick a good mask and wear it properly to protect oneself and others - and not just when "potentially sick" (unless you count that as 'all the time'), but all the time.

It is of course a cultural matter. There are places (mostly in Asia) where masks were socially accepted long before COVID.

Jarhyn said:
We can handle an ecosystem without COVID, it is not to be seen that we can handle an ecosystem with large waves of COVID alone let alone that and flu. But I guess our species will see a filtration event if we can't get it together on this one.
What do you mean by that?
 

barbos

Contributor
Went to a grocery store, check out line cashier was coughing almost non-stop.
I was thinking, good thing I am wearing n95 mask and just recently recovered from covid-19 but what about other people some of which don't wear masks?
 

repoman

Contributor
Is King County kicking the can down the road for covid positivity because it is fairly low?

It was supposed to be updated October 31st, now November 30th, will it be December 31st next?
Screenshot from 2021-11-23 09-32-02.png
 

bilby

Fair dinkum thinkum
Jimmy Higgins said:
It is my freedom. Much like people pooping in the pool usurping my ability to go into the pool.
Alright, so would the same apply to people not wearing masks/not getting vaccines against the flu?
If so, do you think the government should impose a lockdown on them as well?
If not, why would it not be your freedom?
There's a significant difference in severity and scale here.

Arguing for the government to prohibit drunk driving isn't the same as arguing for the government to prohibit alcohol consumption.

In exactly the same way, arguing for the government to mandate measures to prevent a disease that has killed over five million people in two years, and which has widespread long term debilitating consequences for those who survive it, is not the same as arguing for similar measures against a disease that kills around one tenth of that number worldwide, and has few consequences for its survivors beyond one or two weeks of incapacity.
 

Angra Mainyu

Veteran Member
Went to a grocery store, check out line cashier was coughing almost non-stop.
I was thinking, good thing I am wearing n95 mask and just recently recovered from covid-19 but what about other people some of which don't wear masks?
Yeah, that's pretty bad - though the other people should also wear masks and be vaccinated.
And I've seen that in grocery stores too. And a pharmacy! It's weird that the bosses allow it. When that happens, I just leave and go somewhere else, unless they start coughing right when I'm already paying because there is nothing I can do then, but that only happened once to me.
 

Angra Mainyu

Veteran Member
bilby said:
There's a significant difference in severity and scale here.
But my question was to Jimmy Higgins because he said it was his freedom; that would apply to the flu as well, even if to a lesser extent. That said, COVID is far less severe than it used to be overall, due to vaccination.

bilby said:
Arguing for the government to prohibit drunk driving isn't the same as arguing for the government to prohibit alcohol consumption.
Yes, though your posts also didn't make that distinction, which is why I was replying.

bilby said:
In exactly the same way, arguing for the government to mandate measures to prevent a disease that has killed over five million people in two years, and which has widespread long term debilitating consequences for those who survive it, is not the same as arguing for similar measures against a disease that kills around one tenth of that number worldwide, and has few consequences for its survivors beyond one or two weeks of incapacity.
Yes, that is true. It's the distinction you and Jimmy Higgins were not making with your previous arguments. Even so, going by the standard you bring up now - i.e., severity -, one has to take into consideration the freedoms of others - including those who do not want to get vaccinated - in order to calibrate the measures, since there is no reasonable way of jumping from 'no restrictions on the unvaccinated/not recovered' to 'very big restrictions' when you increase gradually the severity.

For example, here we are talking about a disease that has killed over five million people in two years, and which has widespread long term debilitating consequences for some of those who survive it, but for which you and nearly all who want to get vaccinated are fully vaccinated, and also who wear masks. Under such conditions, COVID is much less dangerous now than it used to be. Mandatory vaccination is a lot bigger a restriction on freedom than mandatory masks, as it requires that you put something in your body, not just on it. So, maybe one alternative is not to mandate vaccination, but only masks - good masks, and properly used. I am not against imposing some restriction on freedoms in cases like this, but I think there is a balance between freedom and the health of others, and mandatory vaccination strikes me as too much of a restriction given the alternatives and given that those who want to be vaccinated are vaccinated.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Loren Pechtel said:
1) Flu is not a serious threat to a healthy person. They conduct medical studies in which (young, healthy) people are deliberately infected with flu. That is considered acceptable medical practice because it poses basically zero risk of serious consequences to the test subjects.
However, flu viruses kill a lot of people every year. For example, in the US here is some data frome the CDC:


Vaccination would very probably cut transmission rates - so would, by the way, the proper use of good face masks. As a result, it would save lives. I'm not sure how many, but there would definitely be fewer fatalities. Whether that happens in healthy people or not is not my point. bilby's arguments do not seem to take into consideration the fatality rate, and seem applicable to other cases as well, like the flu.

Flu usually only kills those already severely weakened. If the flu didn't get them chances are something else soon would.

Loren Pechtel said:
2) We have already learned that getting infected doesn't produce immunity--you're immune to that version but it very well might not protect you from variants. The vaccine (other than the Chinese crap that's a killed-virus vaccine, provides about the same protection as prior infection--bad) provides better protection than prior infection.
No, we have not learned that. At least, I have not learned that, so I will ask you to provide good evidence of that. Here's a study supporting the opposite conclusion, comparing Pfizer's vaccine vs. prior infection.

No. Prior infection provides stronger immunity than the vaccine. The vaccine provides broader immunity. They are different things. If you get the virus your resistance to that strain is very high--but you don't have very good protection against other strains and thus reinfection is likely. This is why we have never had a coronavirus vaccine before--they're too good at evading. Only the vaccines based on targeting a reasonably stable part of the virus have worked.


Be very wary of anything on medrxiv. That's a pre-print server, there is no verification of what's posted. The death cultists have been publishing all sorts of crap on there recently, elementary math errors, outright fabrication and the like, then they point to the articles as if they have scientific merit.

Your other source says what we already know--infection provides good protection against that strain. Nothing has replaced Delta yet, thus prior infection with Delta provides very good protection for now.

Sure, you can find studies in the other direction. Jury seems to be still out on that one.

The jury came back long ago, it's just the death cultists are trying to pull a 1/6.

As for the "Chinese crap" , Sinopharm's vaccine is the most widely used vaccine over here, closely followed by AZ and then Sputnik. Combined they probably make up well over 90% of the vaccinations over here. And despite the government's serious negligence that resulted in many more fatalities than otherwise would have occurred, eventually things have improved a lot, the ICUs have plenty of room available, the number of daily covid fatalities has fallen sharply now is gradually falling still, with 234 fatalities in the past 14 days (out of a population of about 46 million). This is despite the fact that nearly all restrictions have been lifted - even mask wearing outdoors, though it's still mandatory indoors - and the fact that most people do not respect the remaining ones anyway. In short, the Chinese crap seems to work okay in the long run, even if it's less effective than AZ or Sputnik. But infection should work better than the dead virus vaccines, as it is with the current variant of the virus.

IIRC it's about 50%. Useful at a population level, not much protection at the individual level.

Incidentally, vaccination with Chinese crap is accepted by European governments and by the US government, even though the US government does not seem to count prior infection at all and demands vaccination. That does not make sense to me: Why consider people vaccinated with dead-virus vaccines immunized, but reject the same for people who recovered from the virus? I can't make sense of that one.

Politics.
 

Jimmy Higgins

Contributor
If people would only get vaccinated and mask up it could be over. But they won't so it isn't.

It's not going to be "over", the disease has spread into enough wildlife that it's going to be endemic. We can keep it at the nuisance level, though.
Can we? I'm a bit nervous that the coalition of anti-science left wingers and hyper-partisan alt-right idiots could push this further and work on weakening our developed herd immunity to a number of diseases.

The good ole American motto, "We can always make things worse."
 

crazyfingers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Can we? I'm a bit nervous that the coalition of anti-science left wingers and hyper-partisan alt-right idiots could push this further and work on weakening our developed herd immunity to a number of diseases.

The good ole American motto, "We can always make things worse."

I believe that it was a member of the Florida legislature who said that it's time to reexamine ALL of the vaccines kids need to have to attend public school. Time to bring back Small pox, Polio, Mumps, etc.. Freedum you know...
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
Wait, how is this possible?

As of Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had recorded 386,233 deaths involving Covid-19 in 2021, compared with 385,343 in 2020. The final number for this year will be higher, not only because there is more than a month left but because it takes time for local agencies to report deaths to the C.D.C. Covid-19 has also accounted for a higher percentage of U.S. deaths this year than it did last year: about 13 percent compared with 11 percent.

NYT

Biden needs to be held to account if this is true.
 

blastula

Contributor
Sure thing, a guy making it easy for you to protect yourself from a deadly disease is to blame instead of the plague rats. :thumbsup:
 

crazyfingers

Super Moderator
Staff member
I got my booster yesterday. I chose Moderna instead of the Pfizer I got earlier. With my first 2 shots I never had anything much by way of side effects other than a sore arm like the flu shot. This time I'm feeling some of the whole body side effects and a slight fever.

Maybe it will get me out of some of the thanksgiving cooking??? I think I need to milk this for what I can get.
 

crazyfingers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Wait, how is this possible?

As of Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had recorded 386,233 deaths involving Covid-19 in 2021, compared with 385,343 in 2020. The final number for this year will be higher, not only because there is more than a month left but because it takes time for local agencies to report deaths to the C.D.C. Covid-19 has also accounted for a higher percentage of U.S. deaths this year than it did last year: about 13 percent compared with 11 percent.

NYT

Biden needs to be held to account if this is true.


Glad to see that you've finally come around to agreeing that mask and vaccine mandates are appropriate and necessary.
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
Wait, how is this possible?

As of Tuesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had recorded 386,233 deaths involving Covid-19 in 2021, compared with 385,343 in 2020. The final number for this year will be higher, not only because there is more than a month left but because it takes time for local agencies to report deaths to the C.D.C. Covid-19 has also accounted for a higher percentage of U.S. deaths this year than it did last year: about 13 percent compared with 11 percent.

NYT

Biden needs to be held to account if this is true.


Glad to see that you've finally come around to agreeing that vaccine mandates are appropriate and necessary.

Bore off.
 

crazyfingers

Super Moderator
Staff member
And yet Florida has the one of the lowest case and death rates in the nation.

Why do you say thing that are simply false?

Florida is 8th highest all time death rate per capita among the 50 states with 285/100,000

Florida is 15 out of 50 for the most cases per capita with 17,469/100,000
 

TomC

Veteran Member
Maybe it will get me out of some of the thanksgiving cooking
Heh!

My first shot was a complete nothingburger.

My second was much more trouble. I felt fluish and sickly for a couple of days.

I totally milked it. Usually, I'm the one bringing mother-in-law stuff. Racing in everytime she wanted a snack, or more ice in her drink, or whatever. For a couple of days, I laid in a recliner. I needed some juice. I wanted some soup!
No, not that kind of soup! The kind with more broccoli in it. And chicken. Well, go to the store then!

Oh yeah. I totally milked it while I could.
Tom
 

crazyfingers

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sure thing, a guy making it easy for you to protect yourself from a deadly disease is to blame instead of the plague rats. :thumbsup:

“Plague rats”, how quaint. But in any event, for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, covid 19 is not a deadly disease.
So lets see, if it's not a problem, why do you have your panties in a twist in your comment above on Biden.

And you know damn well that it's the anti-mask, anti-vax plague rats who caused the rates in 2021 to be worse than 2020 and you know damn well that it's the people who hold your very position on masks and vaccination who are the vast majority of 2021 case.

I think you just enjoy throwing shit on the floor.

And how often do drunk drivers end up injuring or killing someone and when will you be calling for the legalization of drunk driving? Your repeated unwillingness to address that reveals how bankrupt your shifting positions are.
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
“Plague rats”, how quaint. But in any event, for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, covid 19 is not a deadly disease.
So lets see, if it's not a problem, why do you have your panties in a twist in your comment above on Biden.

Regret to inform you, panties are just fine. I thought it was interesting that the NYT frame it in such a way.

And you know damn well that it's the anti-mask, anti-vax plague rats who caused the rates in 2021 to be worse than 2020
I know no such thing. It’s you that claims to know these things but provide no proof.

and you know damn well that it's the people who hold your very position on masks and vaccination who are the vast majority of 2021 case.

You really don’t pay attention.
 

crazyfingers

Super Moderator
Staff member
“Plague rats”, how quaint. But in any event, for the vast majority of people, vaccinated or not, covid 19 is not a deadly disease.
So lets see, if it's not a problem, why do you have your panties in a twist in your comment above on Biden.

Regret to inform you, panties are just fine. I thought it was interesting that the NYT frame it in such a way.

And you know damn well that it's the anti-mask, anti-vax plague rats who caused the rates in 2021 to be worse than 2020
I know no such thing. It’s you that claims to know these things but provide no proof.

and you know damn well that it's the people who hold your very position on masks and vaccination who are the vast majority of 2021 case.

You really don’t pay attention.
Interesting that you said in your own words "Biden needs to be held to account if this is true. " You made no comment on how NYT framed it. You are trying to deflect from your obvious contradiction. First you want to blame Biden for the 2021 cases being high and then you say that it's no bring problem.

If you don't know that it's the anti-mask and anti-vax who account for the huge numbers of cases then you clearly are making no effort to educate yourself.

I do not believe that you've addressed why drunk driving should or should not be legal. I believe that you've avoided addressing it like the plague. Please direct me to a post where you've explained why it's OK for plague rats to spread the virus and have also addressed one way or another why drunk driving should or should not be legal.
 

TSwizzle

Contributor
Interesting that you said in your own words "Biden needs to be held to account if this is true. " You made no comment on how NYT framed it. You are trying to deflect from your obvious contradiction. First you want to blame Biden for the 2021 cases being high and then you say that it's no bring problem.

I’m not blaming Biden for 2021 cases, he has no control over such things.

If you don't know that it's the anti-mask and anti-vax who account for the huge numbers of cases then you clearly are making no effort to educate yourself.

I’m plenty educated on it.
 
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