Covid-19 miscellany

[thebeave]

The thought crosses my mind: Will enough conservative/Republican/anti-vax folks die/become-nonfunctional to affect the November 2022 [and future] elections?

No, as bothered as I am by all this $#!t that's going on, I am NOT wishing that kind of nasty on anyone.....


Just an idle thought....

It never ceases to amaze me that people, especially those on this forum, think the anti-vaxxers are all just a bunch of dumbfuck, knuckleheaded conservatives. There's no shortage of anti-vaxxers on the Democrat side:

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

Black, Hispanic, and Native American people are about 4 times more likely to be hospitalized and nearly 3 times more likely to die of COVID-19 than white people.

Yet African Americans have nearly the lowest rates of vaccination among any ethnic group. In fact, white Americans are being vaccinated at a rate 3 times higher than Black Americans. New CDC figures show that of those who have received at least the first dose of a vaccine, 5.4% are Black people, compared to 60% who are white people. According to recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll, about 35% of Black Americans said they don’t plan to get the vaccine, citing fears about safety and concerns that the vaccines are so new.

Wynne Stovall-Johnson is one of them. The 54-year-old mathematics teacher from Elkins Park, PA, is hesitant about getting vaccinated right now. The mother of two says even though her asthma puts her in a high-risk category, it isn’t enough to sway her.

“It’s really an emotional thing. Trust is based on emotions, and I just don’t trust right now,” she says. “I’m educated. I have a graduate degree. I read a lot. I’m informed. I’m not a person who clings on to conspiracy theories, but I simply do not trust the government at this point.”

She says her husband and half of her close friends plan to get it. But the stain of the Tuskegee Study, the Henrietta Lacks case, and other examples of how Black people have been treated, and in many cases still are treated, by the medical community, makes her skeptical. In the Tuskegee experiments, Black men with syphilis were promised treatment but didn’t receive it. Many of the men died, went blind, or developed other serious health issues. Henrietta Lacks’ cancer cells were used for medical research without her or her family’s knowledge, and without financial compensation.

I wonder what the outcry would be if conservatives speculated on whether enough anti-vaxxer black people would die to put the government back in Republican hands at the next election?

 

[southernhybrid]

Yes, sadly, a good percentage of Black people are refusing to be vaccinated. From what I know, they are mostly Black people who are under 65. When I received my vaccine, more than half of the people waiting were older Black folks, as that was when only those of us over 65 were eligible here in Georgia. In fact, it was a Black friend who called me to let me know that they were giving the vaccine in a local hospital.

But, this same friend told me last week that her two middle aged children and her oldest granddaughter have all refused to get vaccinated, for no apparent reason. My friend has gently tried to persuade her younger family members to be vaccinated, but so far, she's not been successful.

But, I also know at least one older White person who has been unable to convince her younger relatives to be vaccinated. All but one of them are fans of Trump. It's odd that their dear leader has been bragging about how he made the vaccine possible but a lot of his cult members are still refusing to take the shot. They seem to be impacted by the misinformation coming from social media and conservative talking heads.

On the other hand, at least half of the older women who I exercise with are Black and most all of them have been vaccinated. This just goes to show that older people do acquire wisdom. . I live in a Black majority city, which is becoming more integrated, so of course, I have the opportunity to interact with Black people a lot more than a White person who lives in a mostly White area would.

Most of the people with serious COVID symptoms currently, are under 50. So, this has become more of a generational issue than a political one. The far right are the most vocal opponents of the vaccine, but I doubt we have accurate statistics over all.

 

[Elixir]

It never ceases to amaze me that people, especially those on this forum, think the anti-vaxxers are all just a bunch of dumbfuck, knuckleheaded conservatives. There's no shortage of anti-vaxxers on the Democrat side:

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

Wynne Stovall-Johnson is one of them. The 54-year-old mathematics teacher from Elkins Park, PA, is hesitant about getting vaccinated right now. The mother of two says even though her asthma puts her in a high-risk category, it isn’t enough to sway her.

“It’s really an emotional thing. Trust is based on emotions, and I just don’t trust right now,” she says. “I’m educated. I have a graduate degree. I read a lot. I’m informed. I’m not a person who clings on to conspiracy theories, but I simply do not trust the government at this point.”

She says her husband and half of her close friends plan to get it. But the stain of the Tuskegee Study, the Henrietta Lacks case, and other examples of how Black people have been treated, and in many cases still are treated, by the medical community, makes her skeptical. In the Tuskegee experiments, Black men with syphilis were promised treatment but didn’t receive it. Many of the men died, went blind, or developed other serious health issues. Henrietta Lacks’ cancer cells were used for medical research without her or her family’s knowledge, and without financial compensation.

I wonder what the outcry would be if conservatives speculated on whether enough anti-vaxxer black people would die to put the government back in Republican hands at the next election?

I doubt it. They're making sure by other means that those people can't vote or their vote won't count.

 

[Harry Bosch]

It never ceases to amaze me that people, especially those on this forum, think the anti-vaxxers are all just a bunch of dumbfuck, knuckleheaded conservatives. There's no shortage of anti-vaxxers on the Democrat side:

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

Wynne Stovall-Johnson is one of them. The 54-year-old mathematics teacher from Elkins Park, PA, is hesitant about getting vaccinated right now. The mother of two says even though her asthma puts her in a high-risk category, it isn’t enough to sway her.

“It’s really an emotional thing. Trust is based on emotions, and I just don’t trust right now,” she says. “I’m educated. I have a graduate degree. I read a lot. I’m informed. I’m not a person who clings on to conspiracy theories, but I simply do not trust the government at this point.”

She says her husband and half of her close friends plan to get it. But the stain of the Tuskegee Study, the Henrietta Lacks case, and other examples of how Black people have been treated, and in many cases still are treated, by the medical community, makes her skeptical. In the Tuskegee experiments, Black men with syphilis were promised treatment but didn’t receive it. Many of the men died, went blind, or developed other serious health issues. Henrietta Lacks’ cancer cells were used for medical research without her or her family’s knowledge, and without financial compensation.

I wonder what the outcry would be if conservatives speculated on whether enough anti-vaxxer black people would die to put the government back in Republican hands at the next election?

You're totally correct. Robert Kennedy JR is not a conservative. Actually, I think that a strong case can be made that the anti-vaxx movement really started in southern Oregon (Ashland) by a group of liberal women who thought they saw a correlation with vaccines and autism. The movement might be larger on the right. But there are plenty of those on the left who aren't following the science also.

 

[thebeave]

It never ceases to amaze me that people, especially those on this forum, think the anti-vaxxers are all just a bunch of dumbfuck, knuckleheaded conservatives. There's no shortage of anti-vaxxers on the Democrat side:

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210202/black-vaccine-hesitancy-rooted-in-mistrust-doubts

Wynne Stovall-Johnson is one of them. The 54-year-old mathematics teacher from Elkins Park, PA, is hesitant about getting vaccinated right now. The mother of two says even though her asthma puts her in a high-risk category, it isn’t enough to sway her.

“It’s really an emotional thing. Trust is based on emotions, and I just don’t trust right now,” she says. “I’m educated. I have a graduate degree. I read a lot. I’m informed. I’m not a person who clings on to conspiracy theories, but I simply do not trust the government at this point.”

She says her husband and half of her close friends plan to get it. But the stain of the Tuskegee Study, the Henrietta Lacks case, and other examples of how Black people have been treated, and in many cases still are treated, by the medical community, makes her skeptical. In the Tuskegee experiments, Black men with syphilis were promised treatment but didn’t receive it. Many of the men died, went blind, or developed other serious health issues. Henrietta Lacks’ cancer cells were used for medical research without her or her family’s knowledge, and without financial compensation.

I wonder what the outcry would be if conservatives speculated on whether enough anti-vaxxer black people would die to put the government back in Republican hands at the next election?

You're totally correct. Robert Kennedy JR is not a conservative. Actually, I think that a strong case can be made that the anti-vaxx movement really started in southern Oregon (Ashland) by a group of liberal women who thought they saw a correlation with vaccines and autism. The movement might be larger on the right. But there are plenty of those on the left who aren't following the science also.

I was mostly focusing on the covid anti-vax movement, but you are right about the lefty origins of the anti-vax movement before covid. It is interesting how the anti-vax movement (long before covid) started out as a liberal idea (with dumbshit RFK, Jr leading the way...still), but has sorta switched to the conservatives (at least for covid) in more recent times. Marin County, here in the Bay Area has long been a very liberal, well educated, wealthy region, yet was leading the country in its low vaccination rates for the standard childhood vaccinations (MMR, etc). Some of the loonier theories making the rounds in Marin (mostly West Marin, like Bolinas) were that the vaccines were being made with monkey vomit. No joke! Anti vaccine lunacy is not the domain of any particular political leaning.

And I do recall the Ashland, Ore origins. They thought you don't need vaccinations as long as you eat organic food.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

FFS, LA County health department is mandating masks for everyone when indoors regardless of vaccination status. So much for “following the science”.

That is following the science. While the vaccine will almost certainly keep you from dying it's not all that good at stopping you from catching--and spreading--Delta.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As the Delta variant continues its rapid spread in Los Angeles County, Dr. Christina Ghaly says unvaccinated people now account for all COVID-19 hospitalizations at county-run hospitals. "To date, we have not had a patient admitted to a DHS hospital who has been fully vaccinated with either the J&J, Pfizer or Moderna vaccine," said Dr. Christina Ghaly, director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, said Tuesday. "Every single patient that we've admitted for COVID has been not yet fully vaccinated." State and county data shows the highly contagious Delta variant is quickly spreading among those who have not yet received a COVID-19 vaccine.

abcNews

Aside from the fact that masks are pretty pointless, there is no reason for vaccinated people to wear masks. So I won't be wearing one.

"Not admitted to the hospital" doesn't mean "harmless".

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As the Delta variant continues its rapid spread in Los Angeles County, Dr. Christina Ghaly says unvaccinated people now account for all COVID-19 hospitalizations at county-run hospitals. "To date, we have not had a patient admitted to a DHS hospital who has been fully vaccinated with either the J&J, Pfizer or Moderna vaccine," said Dr. Christina Ghaly, director of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services, said Tuesday. "Every single patient that we've admitted for COVID has been not yet fully vaccinated." State and county data shows the highly contagious Delta variant is quickly spreading among those who have not yet received a COVID-19 vaccine.

abcNews

Aside from the fact that masks are pretty pointless, there is no reason for vaccinated people to wear masks. So I won't be wearing one.

"Not admitted to the hospital" doesn't mean "harmless".

Masks are much more about preventing transmission of the disease, than prevention from catching it. So says the science tswizzle has repeatedly ignored for 16 months.

 

[TSwizzle]

Masks are much more about preventing transmission of the disease, than prevention from catching it. So says the science tswizzle has repeatedly ignored for 16 months.

There is no science that backs that up. Feel free to produce a scientific paper that does. Even the CDC says vaccinated people need not wear a mask. You’ve had 16 months and still no evidence to support this assertion. Same goes with the “lockdowns” we’ve had to put up with these past 16 months.

Wear your mask if you like. It just advertises your stupidity and/or your political leanings. To which I say LOL.

 

[bilby]

Masks are much more about preventing transmission of the disease, than prevention from catching it. So says the science tswizzle has repeatedly ignored for 16 months.

There is no science that backs that up. Feel free to produce a scientific paper that does.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0272989X211019029

During the initial epidemic outbreak, with no social distancing, only 100% coverage of masks with high effectiveness can reduce the effective reproductive number R_e below 1. During a resurgence, with lowered transmission rates due to social distancing measures, masks with medium effectiveness at 80% coverage can reduce R_e below 1 but cannot do so if individuals relax social distancing efforts. Full mask coverage could significantly improve outcomes during a resurgence: with social distancing, masks with at least medium effectiveness could reduce R_e below 1 and avert almost all infections, even with intervention fatigue. For coverage levels below 100%, prioritizing masks that reduce the risk of an infected individual from spreading the infection rather than the risk of a susceptible individual from getting infected yields the greatest benefit.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms; nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

The available evidence suggests that near-universal adoption of nonmedical masks when out in public, in combination with complementary public health measures, could successfully reduce R_e to below 1, thereby reducing community spread if such measures are sustained. Economic analysis suggests that mask wearing mandates could add 1 trillion dollars to the US GDP.

https://academic.oup.com/trstmh/article/115/1/74/5908761

Background
In East Asia, face masks are commonly worn to reduce viral spread. In Euope and North America, however, their use has been stigmatised for a long time, although this view has radically changed during the ongoing severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) pandemic. Notwithstanding this, it is still unclear whether face masks worn by COVID-19 carriers may indeed prevent viral transmission and environmental contamination. The objective of this study was to evaluate the effectiveness of surgical face masks in filtering SARS-CoV-2.
Methods
Four male patients with COVID-19 were recruited for the study. Two patients wore a surgical mask for 5 h, while two others did not. The spread of the virus in the environment was evaluated through the approved Allplex 2019-nCoV assay.
Results
In the room with the two patients without surgical masks, the swab performed on the headboard and sides of the beds was positive for SARS-CoV-2 contamination. In the other room, where two patients were wearing surgical masks, all of the swabs obtained after 5 h tested negative.
Conclusions
The results of the current study add to the growing body of literature supporting the use of face masks as a measure to contain the spread of SARS-CoV-2 by retaining potentially contagious droplets that can infect other people and/or contaminate surfaces. Based on the current evidence, face masks should therefore be considered a useful and low-cost device in addition to social distancing and hand hygiene during the postlockdown phase.

 

[repoman]

This data from an official Israeli website is being touted to show that the Pfizer vaccine is not as effective as hoped for. Not sure what to make of the raw data. Usual caveats about missing context apply

https://data.gov.il/dataset/covid-19/resource/9b623a64-f7df-4d0c-9f57-09bd99a88880

Go to the records 200-257 and look at the last two rows about testing positive after vaccination or with no vaccination

The top part of this image is on the website. The second part I am looking for now

 

[barbos]

It's possible that the relative lack of UNvaccinated people among infected is due to the fact that they may have natural immunity in the first place. These without it have already been infected or vaccinated. Plus people who have been vaccinated may have been less cautious.
It's really hard to interpret data when number of vaccinated is close to 100%

Yeah, it does look like vaccine does not work anymore, and we are fucked.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

It's possible that the relative lack of UNvaccinated people among infected is due to the fact that they may have natural immunity in the first place. These without it have already been infected or vaccinated. Plus people who have been vaccinated may have been less cautious.
It's really hard to interpret data when number of vaccinated is close to 100%

Yeah, it does look like vaccine does not work anymore, and we are fucked.

But I think we wouldn't be fucked, assuming it doesn't work anymore. If the vaccine does not work anymore, why does it not work?

If it's because of a new variant, in like a day they can make a Pfizer vaccine against that variant. There is no viral vector involved here. They can just target the new spike protein, and it should work again.

If it's because vaccine immunity does not last for more than a few months, then the solution is a new dose every few months - annoying, but not that we're fucked. And probably in the future, new vaccines will be more convenient in terms of side effect.

Is there any other plausible reason for it to stop working?

 

[barbos]

It's possible that the relative lack of UNvaccinated people among infected is due to the fact that they may have natural immunity in the first place. These without it have already been infected or vaccinated. Plus people who have been vaccinated may have been less cautious.
It's really hard to interpret data when number of vaccinated is close to 100%

Yeah, it does look like vaccine does not work anymore, and we are fucked.

But I think we wouldn't be fucked, assuming it doesn't work anymore. If the vaccine does not work anymore, why does it not work?

If it's because of a new variant, in like a day they can make a Pfizer vaccine against that variant. There is no viral vector involved here. They can just target the new spike protein, and it should work again.

If it's because vaccine immunity does not last for more than a few months, then the solution is a new dose every few months - annoying, but not that we're fucked. And probably in the future, new vaccines will be more convenient in terms of side effect.

Is there any other plausible reason for it to stop working?

This data needs whole lot of clarification-interpretation. Infected != sick. Maybe old vaccine does not prevent infection at all but prevents getting sick AND being contagious. In that case I say it's still great.

Could be fucked up testing too. Their test may show vaccinated as infected.

 

[repoman]

I just don't understand why the drug companies are given a near total trust in what they assert since covid came around. The financial branch guys are full of shysters. Most of the scientists are cool though.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/did-johnson-johnson-jump-or-was-it-pushed-drug-firm-quits-opioids-before-pillbilly-trials-1.4605799

Did Johnson & Johnson jump or was it pushed? Drug firm quits opioids before ‘pillbilly’ trials
US drugmaker is first to formally agree to leave multibillion-dollar business selling powerful narcotics

 

[Elixir]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Masks are much more about preventing transmission of the disease, than prevention from catching it. So says the science tswizzle has repeatedly ignored for 16 months.

There is no science that backs that up. Feel free to produce a scientific paper that does. Even the CDC says vaccinated people need not wear a mask. You’ve had 16 months and still no evidence to support this assertion. Same goes with the “lockdowns” we’ve had to put up with these past 16 months.

Wear your mask if you like. It just advertises your stupidity and/or your political leanings. To which I say LOL.

<Drops 10 ton weight on TSwizzle>

What's the problem? There's nothing there!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's possible that the relative lack of UNvaccinated people among infected is due to the fact that they may have natural immunity in the first place. These without it have already been infected or vaccinated. Plus people who have been vaccinated may have been less cautious.
It's really hard to interpret data when number of vaccinated is close to 100%

Yeah, it does look like vaccine does not work anymore, and we are fucked.

It's not that it doesn't work, it's that it's not good enough against Delta.

However, we know the mRNA techniques work, we can make a booster pretty quickly.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I just don't understand why the drug companies are given a near total trust in what they assert since covid came around. The financial branch guys are full of shysters. Most of the scientists are cool though.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/did-johnson-johnson-jump-or-was-it-pushed-drug-firm-quits-opioids-before-pillbilly-trials-1.4605799

Did Johnson & Johnson jump or was it pushed? Drug firm quits opioids before ‘pillbilly’ trials
US drugmaker is first to formally agree to leave multibillion-dollar business selling powerful narcotics

The vaccine didn't what it was supposed to, but the virus mutated.

 

[untermensche]

The vaccine is effective against the variant.

Almost all serious cases are among the unvaccinated.

This proves both that COVID was no hoax and the vaccine was effective.