Covid-19 miscellany

[Jimmy Higgins]

Australia descending into a totalitarian hell hole as the army are deployed to enforce lockdown;

Australia today used helicopters and the army to enforce its 'Zero Covid' lockdown, as thousands of police flooded Sydney city centre to enforce the rules and hand out $500 fines for those not wearing a mask. Sirens blared across the city and a draconian message was broadcast from the skies, as millions were told: 'This is public health order —do not break rules —you will be found and fines issued.'
Today, up to 1,300 police officers swarmed Sydney and set up a network of roadblocks in a massive show of force to avoid a repeat of last week's violent anti-lockdown protest. Some 250 fines, each worth $500, were issued across the city today, with one man arrested after travelling on trains outside his local government area without a reasonable excuse. Sydney's five million people are under a strict stay-at-home order because of a worrying surge of nearly 3,000 infections since the middle of June. Authorities have this week outlined even tighter restrictions for some worst-affected suburbs, including mandatory testing and mask-wearing outdoors.

DailyMail

Still sounds better than Florida.

Hell hole = the place without tens of thousands of hospitalizations as a result of the pandemic, in large part because people didn't get immunized.

Meanwhile, Israel is observing the mRNA vaccination might be wearing out kind of early. They are noticing drops in performance between those poked in February verses March or April. .

 

[repoman]

Still sounds better than Florida.

Hell hole = the place without tens of thousands of hospitalizations as a result of the pandemic, in large part because people didn't get immunized.

Meanwhile, Israel is observing the mRNA vaccination might be wearing out kind of early. They are noticing drops in performance between those poked in February verses March or April. .

How is that compared to people naturally (provably) infected but not vaccinated?

If it is the same, then that is just life.. If not and natural infection immunity is either significantly longer or shorter lasting that would be interesting.

 

[Rhea]

Still sounds better than Florida.

Hell hole = the place without tens of thousands of hospitalizations as a result of the pandemic, in large part because people didn't get immunized.

Meanwhile, Israel is observing the mRNA vaccination might be wearing out kind of early. They are noticing drops in performance between those poked in February verses March or April. .

How is that compared to people naturally (provably) infected but not vaccinated?

If it is the same, then that is just life.. If not and natural infection immunity is either significantly longer or shorter lasting that would be interesting.

Natural immunity is SHORTER lasting, LESS reliable and LESS effective against variants, it appears.

So get vaccinated.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2782139

Nussenzweig’s team found that antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 continue to evolve up to a year after infection. Vaccines improve the immune response.

Compared with 6 months prior, participants who were not vaccinated maintained most of their plasma antibodies against the virus’s receptor binding domain (RBD) and their plasma had similar neutralizing activity against a nonreplicating virus engineered with the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. Their memory B cells that produce anti-RBD antibodies were only slightly lower in number than at the previous visit and had evolved to produce a broader and more potent range of antibodies. However, their plasma had less neutralizing activity against the variants B.1.1.7 (alpha), B.1.351 (beta), B.1.526 (iota), and P.1 (gamma), with the greatest loss of activity against the beta variant first detected in South Africa.

Compared with unvaccinated participants, those who had received at least 1 dose had higher plasma anti-RBD antibodies and a nearly 50-fold increase in neutralizing activity. According to Nussenzweig, vaccination boosts the memory antibodies that develop after infection, producing an “outstanding response.” In this group, neutralizing antibody levels against the variants surpassed the levels observed against the wild-type virus in infected or fully vaccinated individuals in other studies. Additional research supports this. Two teams, in North America and the UK, recently published studies in Science demonstrating that a single dose of an mRNA vaccine substantially enhances the immune response to SARS-CoV-2 variants among patients with a prior infection—a phenomenon some are calling “hybrid immunity.”

Unvaccinated health care workers appeared to have less protection against the delta and beta variants compared with alpha about a year after they recovered from mild COVID-19. While 88% of this group had neutralizing antibodies against alpha, only 47% neutralized delta.

However, recovered health care workers who had received 1 dose of the AstraZeneca, Pfizer, or Moderna vaccines had a marked increase in neutralizing antibody levels against all 3 of these variants compared with their unvaccinated peers. “Vaccination of convalescent individuals boosted the humoral immune response [against delta] well above the threshold of neutralization,” the authors wrote. “These results strongly suggest that vaccination of previously infected individuals will be most likely protective against a large array of circulating viral strains, including variant [d]elta.”

 

[repoman]

Thanks for the link.

 

[repoman]

General science question, is delta variant different enough from alpha that most people will make new, different antibodies to it compared to alpha or the UK variants?

Will the body also try to use the alpha antibodies/tcells/etc at first as a response?

Having a so-so antibody match (for previously infected or vaccinated) while the body ramps up a better tailored answer seems great.

But is their a nightmare scenario where a variant match is good enough to stop new type antibodies but poor enough to drastically reduce protection?

 

[Toni]

General science question, is delta variant different enough from alpha that most people will make new, different antibodies to it compared to alpha or the UK variants?

Will the body also try to use the alpha antibodies/tcells/etc at first as a response?

Having a so-so antibody match (for previously infected or vaccinated) while the body ramps up a better tailored answer seems great.

But is their a nightmare scenario where a variant match is good enough to stop new type antibodies but poor enough to drastically reduce protection?

The nightmare situation is where previous immunity due to prior infection or vaccination is insufficient to protect against serious disease due to delta. We'd need new vaccines and to revaccinate everyone.


Existing immunity from previous infection and/or vaccination will be the first line of immune response if infected with delta variant. So far, almost all cases seen, the delta variant causes infection but zero to mild symptoms only. For some small number of people, delta seems to cause serious illness in previously vaccinated persons.

Antibodies to specific viruses can provide some protection against similar viruses. It really depends on the degree of similarity and where the differences on the virus.

We seem to be partially in a nightmare situation where vaccinated people are infected with delta but do not exhibit signs of infection/do not know they are infected and so pass on delta to those who are not vaccinated. Before we all say: Serves 'em right: Some of those not vaccinated people are children too young to be vaccinated, some cannot be vaccinated due to medical conditions or may be especially vulnerable due to compromised immune system (transplant recipients, people undergoing chemo, anyone with a compromised immune system) or may live in places where vaccine has not been readily available. PLUS all of those infected with delta are likely to end up in hospitals, further stressing health care workers (who are actual people, with families, lives outside of hospitals, etc.) and making hospital care more risky/less available for non-covid patients--i.e. women who are giving birth, people with heart attacks, car accident victims, etc. Not to mention what it will do to further damage our economy, etc.

 

[Trausti]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful.

So basically... more P-town parties.

 

[TV and credit cards]

And he's so enamoured of this alleged 'truth' that he's posted it twice. Despite being told that it's ridiculous hyperbole.

Yes, we have strict lockdowns in place, and these are being enforced.

No, we don't live in an authoritarian hell hole; We live in a place that generally recognises that strict rules are necessary to mitigate natural disasters, and that understands the necessity of preventing antisocial idiots from harming others by their idiocy.

If you refuse to wear a mask during an outbreak of infectious respiratory disease, you will be fined. Just as if you would be if you refused to obey a fire ban during bushfire season, or refused to obey water restrictions during a drought.

In Australia, we don't have the "freedom" to needlessly and recklessly endanger the lives of others. That's why our fatalities per capita from Covid are one fiftieth of those seen in the USA.

We don't have that freedom here either. The Supreme Court said as much in Jacobson v. Massachusetts regarding smallpox vaccinations. Basically stating that individual liberty ends where public safety begins. I'm guessing rather than crack the authoritarian whip on this faction of fucktards in this divisive political climate, they've opted for fear (reality) and employer mandates.

Personally I'd put them all in Covid pens and see what happens.

 

[Trausti]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful.

So basically... more P-town parties.

I don’t know if random fat men engaging in mass sex with other random fat men is really considered healthy. Some were already being treated for STDs. But they’re a politically-favored group, so no one dare say super spreader event. (Well, maybe the bears might; heh.)

By the end of the week, Mr. Katsurinis was taking reports of positive Covid cases — all gay men, with an average age of 30 to 35, many of whom who had seen a doctor for other reasons, like flu symptoms or sexually transmitted infections,

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/31/us/covid-outbreak-provincetown-cape-cod.html?

 

[Ruth Harris]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

Statements like this make me so angry I could spit nails.

Try telling that to my niece, who was always very active and healthy. She is in her 30's. She worked full time, did all of her own lawn care and gardening, and was raising three children with her husband. They were all (when the kids were old enough) active hunters in almost every season.

Now she is living as a COVID long hauler. She has been unable to return to work, cannot do her own housework or lawn care, and needs help caring for their children. Her heart is enlarged and she is on two different heart medications to help. Her vocal cords were damaged by the virus and she can do no more than whisper, plus it is difficult for her to swallow and also interferes with her breathing.

Yeah, a little exercise would have prevented that

Ruth

 

[Trausti]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

Statements like this make me so angry I could spit nails.

Try telling that to my niece, who was always very active and healthy. She is in her 30's. She worked full time, did all of her own lawn care and gardening, and was raising three children with her husband. They were all (when the kids were old enough) active hunters in almost every season.

Now she is living as a COVID long hauler. She has been unable to return to work, cannot do her own housework or lawn care, and needs help caring for their children. Her heart is enlarged and she is on two different heart medications to help. Her vocal cords were damaged by the virus and she can do no more than whisper, plus it is difficult for her to swallow and also interferes with her breathing.

Yeah, a little exercise would have prevented that

Ruth

Are you somehow unaware that the vast majority of Covid cases are with folks who have co-morbidities, e.g. obesity? This is an illness that targets the unhealthy. That there are outliers does not change the rule.

 

[Toni]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

Statements like this make me so angry I could spit nails.

Try telling that to my niece, who was always very active and healthy. She is in her 30's. She worked full time, did all of her own lawn care and gardening, and was raising three children with her husband. They were all (when the kids were old enough) active hunters in almost every season.

Now she is living as a COVID long hauler. She has been unable to return to work, cannot do her own housework or lawn care, and needs help caring for their children. Her heart is enlarged and she is on two different heart medications to help. Her vocal cords were damaged by the virus and she can do no more than whisper, plus it is difficult for her to swallow and also interferes with her breathing.

Yeah, a little exercise would have prevented that

Ruth

Are you somehow unaware that the vast majority of Covid cases are with folks who have co-morbidities, e.g. obesity? This is an illness that targets the unhealthy. That there are outliers does not change the rule.

Are you unaware of such things as human decency?

Or is your decision not to participate just a personal choice?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

To avoid hijacking this thread, I'll post comments about Covid-19 in Thailand in another thread.

But due to vaccine mismanagement here, I may end up having peculiar technical questions. If I get one Sinovac (or Pfizer) jab, how long must I wait before getting a Moderna jab? I won't have control over the timing: if/when a Pfizer or Moderna jab is available, I must get it on a stipulated day or not at all.)

I've seen no reason to think it would be harmful. The delay is for effectiveness, not for safety.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How is that compared to people naturally (provably) infected but not vaccinated?

If it is the same, then that is just life.. If not and natural infection immunity is either significantly longer or shorter lasting that would be interesting.

Natural immunity is SHORTER lasting, LESS reliable and LESS effective against variants, it appears.

Yup, which is why there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus before. Killed-virus vaccines likely provoke an immune response to a readily-changed part of the virus which does you no good if that part changes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

There were a couple of months at the start where I wasn't out much until I figured out better options. Since then, though, I have hiked as much as usual, just in different times/places.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

Statements like this make me so angry I could spit nails.

Try telling that to my niece, who was always very active and healthy. She is in her 30's. She worked full time, did all of her own lawn care and gardening, and was raising three children with her husband. They were all (when the kids were old enough) active hunters in almost every season.

Now she is living as a COVID long hauler. She has been unable to return to work, cannot do her own housework or lawn care, and needs help caring for their children. Her heart is enlarged and she is on two different heart medications to help. Her vocal cords were damaged by the virus and she can do no more than whisper, plus it is difficult for her to swallow and also interferes with her breathing.

Yeah, a little exercise would have prevented that

Ruth

Are you somehow unaware that the vast majority of Covid cases are with folks who have co-morbidities, e.g. obesity? This is an illness that targets the unhealthy. That there are outliers does not change the rule.

Are you somehow unaware that that isn't true?

Comorbidities greatly increase your chance of it being serious, they don't increase your chance of catching it.

Note, also, that exposure level is also very important. That's why Covid has killed so many medical people.

 

[lpetrich]

Ya know, if people lost weight, exercised, cut the carbs, and went out in the Sun that’d really be helpful. Nah, better mask forever, stay home, and get fat.

So the granolas are right? The health-food nuts?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I don’t know if random fat men engaging in mass sex with other random fat men is really considered healthy.

You keep fantasizing there was a massive sex orgy that caused the super spreader event. Meanwhile selecting someone for sex is far more restrictive than merely breathing next to them. All the people at the party were dancing and drinking etc etc. Whatever sex happened in addition to that between random individuals would be nothing in comparison to all the breathing.

 

[Toni]

I don’t know if random fat men engaging in mass sex with other random fat men is really considered healthy.

You keep fantasizing there was a massive sex orgy that caused the super spreader event. Meanwhile selecting someone for sex is far more restrictive than merely breathing next to them. All the people at the party were dancing and drinking etc etc. Whatever sex happened in addition to that between random individuals would be nothing in comparison to all the breathing.

None of that matters to Trausti, who doesn’t believe in science and would be uninterested or unable to comprehend that different modes of transmission, different targeted tissues/organs, different transmissibility, differences in susceptibility and so expiation or matter. I’m fact, he simply doesn’t care to understand because he believes that he will not catch the virus or that if he dies, that he would be seriously affected. I would suggest that he feels those he loves a d cares about would be similarly safe but I don’t think they exist.