Covid-19 miscellany

[Worldtraveller]

The health care systems are no longer at a risk of being overwhelmed. We have a good understanding of the epidemiology of Covid-19. Covid-19 is no longer a global emergency. It's a local emergency in those countries who haven't had max vaccinations yet.

Seeing as a large chunk of those of us on this board live in the US, COVID is still a 'local' emergency pretty much all of this fucking country. Worse, the low vaccination rates are motivated not by genuine concern or medical based reasons, but because of politics and misinformation. Our already shitty "healthcare" system IS being overwhelmed in several states.

So maybe you should go find a non-fascist Europe based board to post on or something.

 

[DrZoidberg]

The health care systems are no longer at a risk of being overwhelmed. We have a good understanding of the epidemiology of Covid-19. Covid-19 is no longer a global emergency. It's a local emergency in those countries who haven't had max vaccinations yet.

Seeing as a large chunk of those of us on this board live in the US, COVID is still a 'local' emergency pretty much all of this fucking country. Worse, the low vaccination rates are motivated not by genuine concern or medical based reasons, but because of politics and misinformation. Our already shitty "healthcare" system IS being overwhelmed in several states.

What's your sources for these claims? Getting vaccinations for Covid-19 was always easier in USA than in Europe. I have two friends who travelled to USA from Sweden to get the vaccine faster. Yes, they're Americans living in Sweden.

The lack of vaccination rates for Americans isn't the lack of access. It's down to personal politics and beliefs. And that's got to be ok in a democratic country.

So maybe you should go find a non-fascist Europe based board to post on or something.

Jimmy Higgins did put his finger on something. Extremism has become normalised. What anybody thought was draconian and fascist just a couple of years ago is now seen as perfectly justified. The demands on justification of force used has gone down, and sometimes evaporated.

If there's no emergency or immediate danger, needlessly infringing on personal freedoms is fascist.

 

[barbos]

What's your sources for these claims? Getting vaccinations for Covid-19 was always easier in USA than in Europe. I have two friends who travelled to USA from Sweden to get the vaccine faster. Yes, they're Americans living in Sweden.

The lack of vaccination rates for Americans isn't the lack of access. It's down to personal politics and beliefs. And that's got to be ok in a democratic country.

You have some reading comprehension problems here.

So maybe you should go find a non-fascist Europe based board to post on or something.

If there's no emergency or immediate danger, needlessly infringing on personal freedoms is fascist.

Provide definition of "immediate danger" you use here. Cause under normal definition nobody would ever get vaccinated.

 

[crazyfingers]

DrZoidberg, Your wishy-washy "liberalism" is annoying. We had mandatory vaccines before this pandemics.

Yes. I got a letter from the public school earlier this year that my kid needs to have his Meningococcal serogroup ACWY booster shot before returning the school in the fall. There is a laundry list of vaccines that are required. In a sane world Covid would be just one more.

 

[Elixir]

View attachment 34813

If this test was in process when I was in high school, I'd probably still be in high school.

 

[Shadowy Man]

If there's no emergency or immediate danger, needlessly infringing on personal freedoms is fascist.

So, to be clear, if there *is* an emergency you beleive it is ok to infringe on personal freedoms, yes?

 

[DrZoidberg]

If there's no emergency or immediate danger, needlessly infringing on personal freedoms is fascist.

So, to be clear, if there *is* an emergency you beleive it is ok to infringe on personal freedoms, yes?

Yes. For example. China shutting down Wuhan last January was extreme and draconian. Also totally justified IMHO. At that point, for all we knew, humanity was on the brink of going extinct. But even milder things, there's a cost benefit analysis. The Danish authorities demanding people to wear masks on subways and in shops until July this year. I was totally behind that. The minor inconvenience vs the large impact on disease containment is justified.

There's also no hard and fast rule. It's a question of individual judgement where the cut off goes. We all get to decide that.

But I think it looks like we've entered a paradigm where any Covid-19 deaths seem to justify any level of force to get people to vaccinated. And that's where I feel the need to put my foot down

 

[Shadowy Man]

If there's no emergency or immediate danger, needlessly infringing on personal freedoms is fascist.

So, to be clear, if there *is* an emergency you beleive it is ok to infringe on personal freedoms, yes?

Yes. For example. China shutting down Wuhan last January was extreme and draconian. Also totally justified IMHO. At that point, for all we knew, humanity was on the brink of going extinct. But even milder things, there's a cost benefit analysis. The Danish authorities demanding people to wear masks on subways and in shops until July this year. I was totally behind that. The minor inconvenience vs the large impact on disease containment is justified.

There's also no hard and fast rule. It's a question of individual judgement where the cut off goes. We all get to decide that.

But I think it looks like we've entered a paradigm where any Covid-19 deaths seem to justify any level of force to get people to vaccinated. And that's where I feel the need to put my foot down

So, to follow your logic and some things you’ve said before: It is ok to ban smokers from smoking inside restaurants but it’s not ok, in a state quickly running out of pediatric ICU beds, to mandate masks be worn in schools? Or require school employees be vaccinated or submit to daily testing?

Am I understanding your positions correctly?

 

[repoman]

Yes. For example. China shutting down Wuhan last January was extreme and draconian. Also totally justified IMHO. At that point, for all we knew, humanity was on the brink of going extinct. But even milder things, there's a cost benefit analysis. The Danish authorities demanding people to wear masks on subways and in shops until July this year. I was totally behind that. The minor inconvenience vs the large impact on disease containment is justified.

There's also no hard and fast rule. It's a question of individual judgement where the cut off goes. We all get to decide that.

But I think it looks like we've entered a paradigm where any Covid-19 deaths seem to justify any level of force to get people to vaccinated. And that's where I feel the need to put my foot down

So, to follow your logic and some things you’ve said before: It is ok to ban smokers from smoking inside restaurants but it’s not ok, in a state quickly running out of pediatric ICU beds, to mandate masks be worn in schools? Or require school employees be vaccinated or submit to daily testing?

Am I understanding your positions correctly?

Vaccinated AND weekly testing is coming soon.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Jimmy Higgins did put his finger on something. Extremism has become normalised. What anybody thought was draconian and fascist just a couple of years ago is now seen as perfectly justified. The demands on justification of force used has gone down, and sometimes evaporated.

If there's no emergency or immediate danger, needlessly infringing on personal freedoms is fascist.

As usual, your feel for the pulse of America is just ridiculous inaccurate. We have counties in the US where 40 to 50+% of the ICU beds have people suffering from the same disease. And you are saying there is no emergency. In Burlington, Vermont, no... no emergency. In Louisiana and Florida, it is endemic at the moment. Some states in the US are seeing their highest Covid case load ever, in large part because of misinformation, lies, and GOP dumbassery.

 

[repoman]

For the vaccinated, where the vaccine worked and was recent enough, is coming into contact with the delta variant a positive for themselves?

Very low chance of getting very sick and they will make an immune response that is tailored to delta. Then months from now upon getting a variant that is based off of delta then THAT natural response will effectively have been a booster shot. Whereas getting vaccinated and not getting delta now means delta++ months from now will kick their ass.

 

[Elixir]

For the vaccinated, where the vaccine worked and was recent enough, is coming into contact with the delta variant a positive for themselves?

Very low chance of getting very sick and they will make an immune response that is tailor to delta. Then months from now upon getting a variant that is based off of delta then THAT natural response will effectively have been a booster shot. Whereas getting vaccinated and not getting delta now means delta++ months from now will kick their ass.

If that's the case, then the "best" vaccine is the Pfizer, because it is only 46% effective against infection after 6 months, but still effective against severe illness. Everyone who was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine has a moral obligation to get infected with the Delta variant and go around coughing on anti-vaxers for their own good, before Delta++ or - heaven forbid - the Epsilon Variant - comes along and polishes them off.

 

[repoman]

non sarcastically I agree with you.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For the vaccinated, where the vaccine worked and was recent enough, is coming into contact with the delta variant a positive for themselves?

Very low chance of getting very sick and they will make an immune response that is tailor to delta. Then months from now upon getting a variant that is based off of delta then THAT natural response will effectively have been a booster shot. Whereas getting vaccinated and not getting delta now means delta++ months from now will kick their ass.

If that's the case, then the "best" vaccine is the Pfizer, because it is only 46% effective against infection after 6 months, but still effective against severe illness. Everyone who was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine has a moral obligation to get infected with the Delta variant and go around coughing on anti-vaxers for their own good, before Delta++ or - heaven forbid - the Epsilon Variant - comes along and polishes them off.

We are up to Lambda, so Mu would be next. It'd be something a bit "ironic" to have the death maker be called the Mu variant. I wonder how much variant on a variant is needed before a variant gets a new letter.

 

[barbos]

For the vaccinated, where the vaccine worked and was recent enough, is coming into contact with the delta variant a positive for themselves?

Very low chance of getting very sick and they will make an immune response that is tailor to delta. Then months from now upon getting a variant that is based off of delta then THAT natural response will effectively have been a booster shot. Whereas getting vaccinated and not getting delta now means delta++ months from now will kick their ass.

If that's the case, then the "best" vaccine is the Pfizer, because it is only 46% effective against infection after 6 months, but still effective against severe illness. Everyone who was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine has a moral obligation to get infected with the Delta variant and go around coughing on anti-vaxers for their own good, before Delta++ or - heaven forbid - the Epsilon Variant - comes along and polishes them off.

It's Iotta (greek letter Ι ). It's already here and more infectious than Δ .

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yes. For example. China shutting down Wuhan last January was extreme and draconian. Also totally justified IMHO. At that point, for all we knew, humanity was on the brink of going extinct. But even milder things, there's a cost benefit analysis. The Danish authorities demanding people to wear masks on subways and in shops until July this year. I was totally behind that. The minor inconvenience vs the large impact on disease containment is justified.

There's also no hard and fast rule. It's a question of individual judgement where the cut off goes. We all get to decide that.

But I think it looks like we've entered a paradigm where any Covid-19 deaths seem to justify any level of force to get people to vaccinated. And that's where I feel the need to put my foot down

So, to follow your logic and some things you’ve said before: It is ok to ban smokers from smoking inside restaurants but it’s not ok, in a state quickly running out of pediatric ICU beds, to mandate masks be worn in schools? Or require school employees be vaccinated or submit to daily testing?

Am I understanding your positions correctly?

No, I'm for all of that. I think all of that is justified. I think all of that falls well within reasonable force in order to do damage control. It's down to cost/benefit. The force applied has to be in relation to the freedoms that have been taken away from them.

One caveat though. We can't tell school employees that they have to submit to daily testing and not provide the service for free. If we make it mandatory but don't make it easy for them, then we're bullying them into getting vaccinated, and that's not cool IMHO.

In Germany next month you will have to have a Corona pass in order to live a normal life. You either need a fresh test or proof of vaccination. That sounds reasonable. But they will start charging you for it. So you need to pay €30 every couple of days or so if you work in school. That's where it goes from reasonable force to unreasonable force.

 

[Elixir]

For the vaccinated, where the vaccine worked and was recent enough, is coming into contact with the delta variant a positive for themselves?

Very low chance of getting very sick and they will make an immune response that is tailor to delta. Then months from now upon getting a variant that is based off of delta then THAT natural response will effectively have been a booster shot. Whereas getting vaccinated and not getting delta now means delta++ months from now will kick their ass.

If that's the case, then the "best" vaccine is the Pfizer, because it is only 46% effective against infection after 6 months, but still effective against severe illness. Everyone who was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine has a moral obligation to get infected with the Delta variant and go around coughing on anti-vaxers for their own good, before Delta++ or - heaven forbid - the Epsilon Variant - comes along and polishes them off.

It's Iotta (greek letter Ι ). It's already here and more infectious than Δ .

Where's "here"? and is it deadlier or less deadly than Delta?

 

[DrZoidberg]

For the vaccinated, where the vaccine worked and was recent enough, is coming into contact with the delta variant a positive for themselves?

Very low chance of getting very sick and they will make an immune response that is tailor to delta. Then months from now upon getting a variant that is based off of delta then THAT natural response will effectively have been a booster shot. Whereas getting vaccinated and not getting delta now means delta++ months from now will kick their ass.

If that's the case, then the "best" vaccine is the Pfizer, because it is only 46% effective against infection after 6 months, but still effective against severe illness. Everyone who was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine has a moral obligation to get infected with the Delta variant and go around coughing on anti-vaxers for their own good, before Delta++ or - heaven forbid - the Epsilon Variant - comes along and polishes them off.

Those effectiveness numbers are pulled out of the ass. The different trials conducted them differently, so they can't be compared. Pfizer for instance only tested people in the test with flu symptoms. J&J tested everybody regularly. Unsurprisingly Pfizer offers a better protection. No it doesn't. It's just manipulation with numbers. We also don't want to use these numbers as any basis with which we make any policies because then we're encouraging big pharma to be less honest in number reporting.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For the vaccinated, where the vaccine worked and was recent enough, is coming into contact with the delta variant a positive for themselves?

Very low chance of getting very sick and they will make an immune response that is tailor to delta. Then months from now upon getting a variant that is based off of delta then THAT natural response will effectively have been a booster shot. Whereas getting vaccinated and not getting delta now means delta++ months from now will kick their ass.

If that's the case, then the "best" vaccine is the Pfizer, because it is only 46% effective against infection after 6 months, but still effective against severe illness. Everyone who was vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine has a moral obligation to get infected with the Delta variant and go around coughing on anti-vaxers for their own good, before Delta++ or - heaven forbid - the Epsilon Variant - comes along and polishes them off.

It's Iotta (greek letter Ι ). It's already here and more infectious than Δ .

Iota was a fad back in the Winter of 2020/21, and it has given way to the latest Covid-19 fad Delta. Effectively the MySpace of Covid-19.

 

[barbos]

It's Iotta (greek letter Ι ). It's already here and more infectious than Δ .

Where's "here"? and is it deadlier or less deadly than Delta?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.04.21261596v1
The study was done in NY. On the other hand it was discovered a year ago, Maybe it's not that scary.