Covid-19 miscellany

[untermensche]

Protein synthesis — the most energy-intensive part of growth and reproduction is similar; indeed the host is subverted to do the synthesis. Why are some medicines effective against some growths, but not others? I don't know, but suspect it is a complicated matter. To extrapolate from your claim, if it were correct, anti-cancer drugs would kill the person.

I am a pharmacist and I know how it is done. You can't attack normal human processes with a drug. That would be like injecting disinfectant. Although in the case of cancer you do have to attack rapidly dividing cells which causes things like hair loss.

You have to attack a process specific to the virus to kill the virus and spare the person.

If viruses used the same process to replicate as humans used to create proteins then killing the virus would kill the person.

Coronavirus is a Class IV virus.

Yes. Which makes the claim the virus replicates like a human cell even more wrong.

 

[blastula]

WTF is going on here? There are plenty of studies regarding the effectiveness, or not, of ivermectin with Covid. I don’t have a strong opinion either way. But this contagious stupidity that ivermectin doesn’t have antiviral properties is bewildering. Here’s one on the use of ivermectin and dengue virus: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30452439/. So yes, extraordinary ignorance. It’s not like this information is hidden and unavailable from public view.

So far the only study that found any benefit has been found to be fraudulent.

That's not true, several studies have found positive results, but they were weakly designed studies. Need more data to make an ultimate finding.

Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

Some clinical studies showed no benefits or worsening of disease after ivermectin use,21-24 whereas others reported shorter time to resolution of disease manifestations that were attributed to COVID-19,25-27 greater reduction in inflammatory marker levels,26 shorter time to viral clearance,21 or lower mortality rates in patients who received ivermectin than in patients who received comparator drugs or placebo.21,27

However, most of these studies had incomplete information and significant methodological limitations, which make it difficult to exclude common causes of bias.

And just because something works in a test tube doesn't mean it works in a person. As XKCD said, a handgun kills diseases in a petri dish.

Yes, but it's worthwhile to investigate drugs like this, that show potential in vitro, as it was for hydroxychloroquine. But it's not so worthwhile to start taking them before it's determined to be effective after we already have effective vaccines.

As Bilby says, it's deluded to pretend you can do determine these answers by doing "research" by yourself. But these people taking ivermectin aren't even attempting any real assessment or study of scientific papers, they are just following the posture of their ideological herd. To them, you have to go against establishment mainstream science organizations because they said things at odds with the orange dear leader. There are also those who have always been against anything mainstream science (the "health and wellness" community is rife with these types).

 

[Artemus]

View attachment 35195

Vaccine Skeptic Does Own Research By Enrolling 45,000 Friends In Double-Blind Clinical Trial.

 

[untermensche]

If anybody thinks doctors would put aside any drug that would help with this they are crazy.

But no single study proves the safety and efficacy of anything.

To get a drug approved you need to go through three phases which usually means many studies and many years of work.

The FDA typically requires Phase I, II, and III trials to be conducted to determine if the drug can be approved for use.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/what-are-clinical-trials-and-studies

 

[ideologyhunter]

Some analytical writer will have to dissect this Republican aversion to good, proven health information. We can compare masked vs. unmasked locations and show a positive result from mask wearing. But the dissenters, overwhelmingly Trumpists, resent any mandates or even advisories on masking. We have a truly marvelous human invention, in less than a year, of multiple vaccines specific to covid, but we have stretches of the country where less than half the eligible adults will accept this powerful free gift. Why anyone would turn away from the available vaccines and follow Trump's enthusiasm for hydroxychloroquine or this new craze for ivermectin is beyond my power to grasp. Then again, these folks follow America's most prolific liar while insisting that the mainstream media is a concentration of lies.
If patriotism is sacrificing for your country, this crowd falls woefully short. They show an absence of concern for their country, their fellow citizens, and the health care professionals, all of whom pay the price for their folly. The resurgence was preventable.

 

[bilby]

Some analytical writer will have to dissect this Republican aversion to good, proven health information. We can compare masked vs. unmasked locations and show a positive result from mask wearing. But the dissenters, overwhelmingly Trumpists, resent any mandates or even advisories on masking. We have a truly marvelous human invention, in less than a year, of multiple vaccines specific to covid, but we have stretches of the country where less than half the eligible adults will accept this powerful free gift. Why anyone would turn away from the available vaccines and follow Trump's enthusiasm for hydroxychloroquine or this new craze for ivermectin is beyond my power to grasp. Then again, these folks follow America's most prolific liar while insisting that the mainstream media is a concentration of lies.
If patriotism is sacrificing for your country, this crowd falls woefully short. They show an absence of concern for their country, their fellow citizens, and the health care professionals, all of whom pay the price for their folly. The resurgence was preventable.

As Clarke observed, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

The problem is that in the modern world, many technologies are sufficiently advanced for a sizable fraction of the population to simply lump them into the 'magic' category; And once you do that, the question is no longer one of who is right or who is wrong, it's a choice of who is the most entertaining showman, with the most spectacular tricks.

The CDC plods along doing the same old mundane stuff, while the shock jocks, celebrities, and assorted clowns of the American right are claiming to be able to make the Empire State Building disappear, or to be able to escape from a locked trunk wrapped in chains at the bottom of a shark tank.

The tide comes in, the tide goes out. Why? Nobody knows. Equally, nobody knows how Ivermectin cures nematode infestations; But as it does, obviously it's powerful juju, and it's perfectly reasonable to assume that it cures everything.

The existence of cures for diseases is more than enough proof that these magicians can cure any disease they choose. So if they say that there's no cure, you can be sure that they're lying - and if some showman in a natty suit comes along and confirms your suspicion by telling you that a common and inexpensive drug will do the job, why wouldn't you believe him?

 

[untermensche]

Some analytical writer will have to dissect this Republican aversion to good, proven health information. We can compare masked vs. unmasked locations and show a positive result from mask wearing. But the dissenters, overwhelmingly Trumpists, resent any mandates or even advisories on masking. We have a truly marvelous human invention, in less than a year, of multiple vaccines specific to covid, but we have stretches of the country where less than half the eligible adults will accept this powerful free gift. Why anyone would turn away from the available vaccines and follow Trump's enthusiasm for hydroxychloroquine or this new craze for ivermectin is beyond my power to grasp. Then again, these folks follow America's most prolific liar while insisting that the mainstream media is a concentration of lies.
If patriotism is sacrificing for your country, this crowd falls woefully short. They show an absence of concern for their country, their fellow citizens, and the health care professionals, all of whom pay the price for their folly. The resurgence was preventable.

Almost entirely Trumpists.

I have not seen one anti-vaxxer anywhere in the media or in my life that is not also a Trump supporter. I am just talking about the US.

It is either believe lies about the vaccine and about masks or admit Trump is a sociopathic killer of his own people.

 

[lpetrich]

• Canine Ivermectin Toxicity - heartworm medication overdose in dogs
• Learn More with this Toxicology Article by Vera M. Steinbergen

Both articles warn against taking too much ivermectin.

Heartworm: Dirofilaria immitis - Onchocercidae
A nematode

Durvet Ivermectin Pour-On, 5 L, 387758 at Tractor Supply Co.

Durvet 387758 Ivermectin Pour-On for cattle is indicated for the treatment and control of gastrointestinal roundworms (including inhibited Ostertagia ostertagi), grubs, flies, sucking and biting lice, and sarcoptic mange mites in cattle. It also provides up to 28 days of horn fly control for cattle. This fly pest control provides a wide margin of safety with minimal animal stress.

Medium stomach worm: Ostertagia ostertagi - Trichostrongylidae
A nematode

Horn fly: Haematobia irritans irritans (Linnaeus) (Insecta: Diptera: Muscidae)

I also found some ivermectin preparations for pigs.

Ivermectin Solution – All Bird Products

Ivermectin poisoning in reptiles » Veterinary Poisons Information Service
Nematode Parasites Treatment: Ivermectin - Reptiles Magazine
Lizards and snakes can tolerate ivermectin, but turtles and crocodilians can't.

Amphibians:
Efficacy of ivermectin as an anthelmintic in leopard frogs - PubMed

Fish:

• A review of the use of ivermectin as a treatment for sea lice [Lepeophtheirus salmonis (Krøyer) and Caligus elongatus Nordmann] infestation in farmed Atlantic salmon (Salmo salar L.) - Davies - 2000 - Aquaculture Research - Wiley Online Library
• Avermectin use in aquaculture - PubMed
• Tolerance and Efficacy of Emamectin Benzoate and Ivermectin for the Treatment of Pseudocapillaria tomentosa in Laboratory Zebrafish (Danio rerio)
• Toxicity and pathological effects of orally administered ivermectin in Atlantic, chinook, and coho salmon and steelhead trout

Salmon louse: Lepeophtheirus salmonis - Caligidae - Copepoda - Crustacea
Sea louse: Caligus spp. - Caligidae
Pseudocapillaria tomentosa - Capillariidae - Enoplida - Enoplea - Nematoda

More and more arthropods and nematodes. Still no tapeworms.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Jim Jordan on Twitter: "Vaccine mandates are un-American." / Twitter
Rep. Jim Jordan, R-OH, is a Tea Partier and Trumpie.

He got oodles of response tweets. I like this one:

Tristan Snell on Twitter: "George Washington mandated vaccinations for the Continental Army. So you’re saying Washington was un-American?" / Twitter

I responded

Vaccination eradicated smallpox, to the point that the only remaining samples are in laboratories, with a lot of controversy over whether to destroy these last ones:  Smallpox virus retention debate

Deliberate extinction of a species is a drastic step, but I think that it should be considered. The smallpox virus would then have a purely virtual existence, like its genome: Variola virus, complete genome - Nucleotide - NCBI

 

[lpetrich]

• Use of ivermectin for treatment of ear mite infestation in rabbits - PubMed
• Drug Therapy in Pet Rodents - mentions ivermectin
• Treatment of rabbit cheyletiellosis with selamectin or ivermectin: a retrospective case study | Acta Veterinaria Scandinavica | Full Text
• Effect of ivermectin on the control of ear mites (Psoroptes cuniculi) in naturally infested rabbits - PubMed
• Ivermectin for Chickens and Ducks
• Ivermectin For Worms, Lice & Mites In Chickens

Cheyletiella is a mite

(the first chicken one)

• Most species of adult roundworms, including Ascaridia galli (large roundworm), Heterakis gallinarum (cecal worm), Syngamus trachea (gapeworm), and Oxyspirura mansoni (manson eyeworm). It has variable effectiveness against Capillaria (threadworms) at the dosage that can be safely administered.
• Some species of mites, including Cytodites nudus (airsac mites), Laminosioptes cisticola (fowl cyst mites), Knemidocoptes mutans (scaly leg mites), and Micnemidocoptes derooi. It has mixed effectiveness with management of Ornithonyssus spp (fowl mites).

(the second chicken one)
Sometimes prescribed by Vets to treat endoparasites (worms) and ectoparasites (lice and most mites, including scaly leg mite).

More and more arthropods and nematodes.

No tapeworms or flukes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Rep. Jim Jordan on Twitter: "Vaccine mandates are un-American." / Twitter
Rep. Jim Jordan, R-OH, is a Tea Partier and Trumpie.

Representative that voted to not certify the US Election calls something unAmerican?

 

[ZiprHead]

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My 12-year-old had appendicitis. The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated Covid patients and we had to wait 6+ hours. While waiting, his appendix ruptured and had to spend 5 days in hospital; just got hmo bill of $5000. So yeah, your decision to not vaccinate does affect others.</p>— nathaniel osborn (@NEOsborn) <a href="https://twitter.com/NEOsborn/status/1434965456985722883?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]..

 

[TomC]

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My 12-year-old had appendicitis. The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated Covid patients and we had to wait 6+ hours. While waiting, his appendix ruptured and had to spend 5 days in hospital; just got hmo bill of $5000. So yeah, your decision to not vaccinate does affect others.</p>— nathaniel osborn (@NEOsborn) <a href="https://twitter.com/NEOsborn/status/1434965456985722883?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]..

Florida is even worse than here.
But my brother-in-law recently had pretty invasive chest surgery, preparing for massive heart surgery. The hospital, in his home of Trump County, Indiana sent him home the next day. His mom was outraged, but the fact is that unvaccinated C19 patients are clogging up their facilities.
Tom

 

[Jarhyn]

[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">My 12-year-old had appendicitis. The ER was overwhelmed with unvaccinated Covid patients and we had to wait 6+ hours. While waiting, his appendix ruptured and had to spend 5 days in hospital; just got hmo bill of $5000. So yeah, your decision to not vaccinate does affect others.</p>— nathaniel osborn (@NEOsborn) <a href="https://twitter.com/NEOsborn/status/1434965456985722883?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]..

When my husband was going through treatment for his abscess, there was a 40-50 minute wait just for triage. The whole emergency waiting room was standing room only.

There was a line for being seen, but even so, we were the first to be taken for triage, ahead of everyone else in the waiting room. What this tells me is either abscesses get huge priority, or literally everyone else showing up before and after us was there for Covid and they didn't give a shit about those folks.

I can't imagine though that every hospital was doing it right, or is still now. There are sure to be a lot of such situations across the country where some administrator has a bug in their ass that they can't just leave that Ivermectin/covidiots flapping in the wind. Even so, eventually they WILL be seen, even despite the fact that their line is mostly there for them to die waiting in. This still costs time and money and buries many folks with less visible but still serious conditions.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Should just tell them to wait outside the morgue. Could save time if they have to wait too long to be seen.

 

[Jarhyn]

Should just tell them to wait outside the morgue. Could save time if they have to wait too long to be seen.

It's more an issue that you can't make that judgement ethically until after triage, and there are only so many triage nurses.

It would be all good and fine if we could just test people for bleach consumption, ivermectin, and Covid at the door, but all those tests would eat up vital lab time.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Cleveland Playhouse Square announced that attendees must be fully vaccinated to attend shows. This is in addition to masks.

 

[bilby]

Rep. Jim Jordan on Twitter: "Vaccine mandates are un-American." / Twitter
Rep. Jim Jordan, R-OH, is a Tea Partier and Trumpie.

He got oodles of response tweets. I like this one:

Tristan Snell on Twitter: "George Washington mandated vaccinations for the Continental Army. So you’re saying Washington was un-American?" / Twitter

I responded

Vaccination eradicated smallpox, to the point that the only remaining samples are in laboratories, with a lot of controversy over whether to destroy these last ones:  Smallpox virus retention debate

Deliberate extinction of a species is a drastic step, but I think that it should be considered. The smallpox virus would then have a purely virtual existence, like its genome: Variola virus, complete genome - Nucleotide - NCBI

The Smallpox retention debate has been rendered irrelevant by advances in technology. If the last of it had been destroyed in the early 1990s, that would have been the end; But destroying it today would achieve little to prevent its future deployment as a weapon (or its future use as the basis from which a weapon could be developed), because it is no longer necessary to have a strand of viral DNA - all that's required with modern technology is a simple list of the ~186,000 base pairs that make up the viral genome.

To permanently eradicate Smallpox today, not only would all remaining virions need to be destroyed, but also all records of that fairly short sequence. To reliably do this, given the ease of data storage, dissemination, and retrieval in today's world, is likely impossible; Certainty it's unverifiable.

Thirty years ago, just determing the sequence was impossible. But today it's easy not only to determine what it is, but also to reverse that process and build a new virion from scratch. The construction of the DNA can be done automatically by a machine that is ubiquitous in biochemistry laboratories around the world, and the creation of virions from that DNA can be readily achieved via a number of means.

The genie can no longer be put back in the bottle.

 

[bilby]

• Use of ivermectin for treatment of ear mite infestation in rabbits - PubMed
• Drug Therapy in Pet Rodents - mentions ivermectin
• Treatment of rabbit cheyletiellosis with selamectin or ivermectin: a retrospective case study | Acta Veterinaria Scandinavica | Full Text
• Effect of ivermectin on the control of ear mites (Psoroptes cuniculi) in naturally infested rabbits - PubMed
• Ivermectin for Chickens and Ducks
• Ivermectin For Worms, Lice & Mites In Chickens

Cheyletiella is a mite

(the first chicken one)

• Most species of adult roundworms, including Ascaridia galli (large roundworm), Heterakis gallinarum (cecal worm), Syngamus trachea (gapeworm), and Oxyspirura mansoni (manson eyeworm). It has variable effectiveness against Capillaria (threadworms) at the dosage that can be safely administered.
• Some species of mites, including Cytodites nudus (airsac mites), Laminosioptes cisticola (fowl cyst mites), Knemidocoptes mutans (scaly leg mites), and Micnemidocoptes derooi. It has mixed effectiveness with management of Ornithonyssus spp (fowl mites).

(the second chicken one)
Sometimes prescribed by Vets to treat endoparasites (worms) and ectoparasites (lice and most mites, including scaly leg mite).

More and more arthropods and nematodes.

No tapeworms or flukes.

It did appear to kill a tapeworm once; But that was just a fluke.

 

[Trausti]

People who take aspirin are using horse de-lamer.