Covid-19 miscellany

[DrZoidberg]

So hospitals and what not are prepping for a minor scale exodus of workers who refuse to get this vaccination, despite all the other vaccinations they needed to do the job at this point. Hospitals aren't exactly designed to work with any level of drop in staff. I find it odd that medical professionals could act like this, but it seems I had a misimpression of medical staff as a broad-brushed group. After all, doctors helped create the opioid crisis. The unvax'd are now impacting the vax'd by helping them get the disease now, some getting decently sick. Not many needing hospitalization, but that doesn't mean they aren't getting sick. So much freedom for the unvax'd, limited freedom for the rest.

I see stories like "Preliminary research finds that even mild cases of COVID-19 leave a mark on the brain – but it’s not yet clear how long it lasts."

My question: Is it possible that other common illnesses, e.g. influenza, may similarly have adverse long-term effects, but this has passed unnoticed because research is much more efficacious now than in past decades?

I don't think it means anything. There's all kinds of artifacts left over in our biology after traumas that may or may not be related to any long term effect.

Sounds like somebody taking medical data and using it to create fake news

This unreferenced post is brought to you by The Gut. When you really think it, but can't demonstrate it, go with The Gut.

It's based on what I know about ADHD research. When people with ADHD are placed in a CRT scanner their brain lights up in certain ways. There's a pattern. But people who don't have ADHD can light up in the same way. Or people with ADHD don't.

It was announced to the world press as physical evidence of ADHD. After 15 years of research it was retracted.

It doesn't mean anything. It might. But it might also not. Today there's no way from a brain scan conclude that somebody has or hasn't ADHD.

The reason is, because we don't know enough about how the brain works in order to draw much conclusions about whether or not a certain mark on the brain means anything. The brain is plastic. It can shift around which regions do what work. In ways we do NOT understand yet.

It's not a gut feeling. My opinion is the result of following this ADHD CRT debacle in real time. And watching something we thought we knew for a fact unravel.

 

[repoman]

I see stories like "Preliminary research finds that even mild cases of COVID-19 leave a mark on the brain – but it’s not yet clear how long it lasts."

My question: Is it possible that other common illnesses, e.g. influenza, may similarly have adverse long-term effects, but this has passed unnoticed because research is much more efficacious now than in past decades?

Wouldn't this behoove the whole medical industry to push with one voice to get better vaccines that stop the virus in the nasal passages that are pretty close to the brain?

Nasal vaccines and vaccines that are multi protein and not just the spike protein?

And for fuck's sake a delta update booster!

It would be funny if Africa and other currently non vaxxed places got nasal and multiprotein vaccines and killed transmission way faster than us, even our vaxxed people.



You want the pandemic over fast and not just spend your time bitching at Trumptards, Let alone angel minorities here in the US not getting vaxxed.

 

[Elixir]

I see stories like "Preliminary research finds that even mild cases of COVID-19 leave a mark on the brain – but it’s not yet clear how long it lasts."

My question: Is it possible that other common illnesses, e.g. influenza, may similarly have adverse long-term effects, but this has passed unnoticed because research is much more efficacious now than in past decades?

Wouldn't this behoove the whole medical industry to push with one voice to get better vaccines that stop the virus in the nasal passages that are pretty close to the brain?

Nasal vaccines and vaccines that are multi protein and not just the spike protein?

And for fuck's sake a delta update booster!

It would be funny if Africa and other currently non vaxxed places got nasal and multiprotein vaccines and killed transmission way faster than us, even our vaxxed people.



You want the pandemic over fast and not just spend your time bitching at Trumptards, Let alone angel minorities here in the US not getting vaxxed.

Word salad. What "other proteins" do you want to provoke an immune response to, without knowing the side effects of of those immune responses? WTF is a "Delta update booster" if not an mRNA vaccine targeting the spike proteins as Pfizer and Moderna vaccines already do? Are you wishing for a Delta-specific vaccine that might not be effective on the original COVID strain(s) and could hold as-yet unknown risks?

I get that the ignorance of the anti-vax crowd is bottomless (they want mono-clonal antibodies so they don't have to have a vaccine where they "don't know what's in it").
So I see no reason to expect any better success getting them immunized with a "New and Improved" vaccine. They already think the existing vaccines are too "New!" to be trusted.

 

[Swammerdami]

I see stories like "Preliminary research finds that even mild cases of COVID-19 leave a mark on the brain – but it’s not yet clear how long it lasts."

My question: Is it possible that other common illnesses, e.g. influenza, may similarly have adverse long-term effects, but this has passed unnoticed because research is much more efficacious now than in past decades?

I don't think it means anything. There's all kinds of artifacts left over in our biology after traumas that may or may not be related to any long term effect.

Sounds like somebody taking medical data and using it to create fake news

Wow! And you were the one in another thread arguing that laymen should capitulate to "expert" opinion even on matters where their expertise is irrelevant. Just, WOW!

I didn't provide a link, but Googling the headline I quoted jumps to the article:

In August 2021, a preliminary but large-scale study investigating brain changes in people who had experienced COVID-19 drew a great deal of attention within the neuroscience community.

In that study, researchers relied on an existing database called the UK Biobank, which contains brain imaging data from over 45,000 people in the U.K. going back to 2014. This means – crucially – that there was baseline data and brain imaging of all of those people from before the pandemic.

The research team analyzed the brain imaging data and then brought back those who had been diagnosed with COVID-19 for additional brain scans. They compared people who had experienced COVID-19 to participants who had not, carefully matching the groups based on age, sex, baseline test date and study location, as well as common risk factors for disease, such as health variables and socioeconomic status.

The team found marked differences in gray matter – which is made up of the cell bodies of neurons that process information in the brain – between those who had been infected with COVID-19 and those who had not. Specifically, the thickness of the gray matter tissue in brain regions known as the frontal and temporal lobes was reduced in the COVID-19 group, differing from the typical patterns seen in the group that hadn’t experienced COVID-19.

It sure sounds like researchers with relevant credentials doing science. I know some extremists think climate change is a hoax promulgated by scientists being pimped by Big_Green. In your opinion has the UK Biobank been subverted by Big_Vaccine? Big_Mask?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

WTF is a "Delta update booster" if not an mRNA vaccine targeting the spike proteins as Pfizer and Moderna vaccines already do? Are you wishing for a Delta-specific vaccine that might not be effective on the original COVID strain(s) and could hold as-yet unknown risks?

The original strain is nowhere to be found. As for "unknown risks", that's another matter, but the way of making the vaccine is pretty much the same, so it seems very improbable that it would have worse side-effects than the current vaccines (and given the increased risk from delta vs. the unlikely side effects, it seems to me a booster against Delta would be a good idea, though I don't know what the cost would be).

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

WTF is a "Delta update booster" if not an mRNA vaccine targeting the spike proteins as Pfizer and Moderna vaccines already do? Are you wishing for a Delta-specific vaccine that might not be effective on the original COVID strain(s) and could hold as-yet unknown risks?

The original strain is nowhere to be found. As for "unknown risks", that's another matter, but the way of making the vaccine is pretty much the same, so it seems very improbable that it would have worse side-effects than the current vaccines (and given the increased risk from delta vs. the unlikely side effects, it seems to me a booster against Delta would be a good idea, though I don't know what the cost would be).

This is the same mindset that gave us the Boeing 737-Max.

 

[blastula]

I see stories like "Preliminary research finds that even mild cases of COVID-19 leave a mark on the brain – but it’s not yet clear how long it lasts."

My question: Is it possible that other common illnesses, e.g. influenza, may similarly have adverse long-term effects, but this has passed unnoticed because research is much more efficacious now than in past decades?

Wouldn't this behoove the whole medical industry to push with one voice to get better vaccines that stop the virus in the nasal passages that are pretty close to the brain?

Only if vaccinated people are having these brain issues at significant rates. Haven't heard that they are.

Nasal vaccines and vaccines that are multi protein and not just the spike protein?

And for fuck's sake a delta update booster!

It would be funny if Africa and other currently non vaxxed places got nasal and multiprotein vaccines and killed transmission way faster than us, even our vaxxed people.

Having more effective vaccines is better, but the ones we have are very good already. The problem is uptake in some countries and availability in others.

You want the pandemic over fast and not just spend your time bitching at Trumptards, Let alone angel minorities here in the US not getting vaxxed.

But the anti-vaxxers, whatever motivation, are the problem in the US though. The best way out of the pandemic is getting everyone vaccinated who can be. Earlier this year, we were way ahead of almost every nation in vaccination rates, but now we're falling behind several countries, even Australia is catching up. Vaccine denialsm is our main problem, that's the simple fact.

 

[Elixir]

WTF is a "Delta update booster" if not an mRNA vaccine targeting the spike proteins as Pfizer and Moderna vaccines already do? Are you wishing for a Delta-specific vaccine that might not be effective on the original COVID strain(s) and could hold as-yet unknown risks?

The original strain is nowhere to be found. As for "unknown risks", that's another matter, but the way of making the vaccine is pretty much the same, so it seems very improbable that it would have worse side-effects than the current vaccines (and given the increased risk from delta vs. the unlikely side effects, it seems to me a booster against Delta would be a good idea, though I don't know what the cost would be).

This is the same mindset that gave us the Boeing 737-Max.

Exactly. It’s almost as if Repo wants to give antivaxers a reason to dig in their heels.
The problem is not that we lack New and Improved vaccines. It’s that right wing, propaganda-soaked morons won’t take the freely available, highly effective vaccines we already have.

At this point, fuck ‘em. Let them ingest bleach and sheep dip and put UV lights up their butts, and die happy that they pwned the libs.

 

[repoman]

This is the same mindset that gave us the Boeing 737-Max.

Exactly. It’s almost as if Repo wants to give antivaxers a reason to dig in their heels.
The problem is not that we lack New and Improved vaccines. It’s that right wing, propaganda-soaked morons won’t take the freely available, highly effective vaccines we already have.

At this point, fuck ‘em. Let them ingest bleach and sheep dip and put UV lights up their butts, and die happy that they pwned the libs.

You are putting the cart before the horse and are almost saying that work on better vaccines shouldn't be worked on now and if they are worked on this should not be publicized.

Maybe the non vaccinated people in Africa should not get better vaccines because of antivaxxers here in the U.S. are also holding out for that /s

Africans don't deserve nasal vaccines, or delta specific vaccines or the inclusion of the nucleocapsid proteins.

I have been vaccinated with Pfizer, FWIW.

Are the antivaxxers in charge of covid vaccine research and progress? They are in your mind.

 

[Rhea]

You have a strange love affair with nasal vaccines. I mean, they sound promising, and I think people are working on them. And I don’t think anyone is slowing them down, certainly not pro-vaxxers.

So it’s interesting the way you bring them up as if they are an argument instead of an agreement. I don’t understand your angle.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

WTF is a "Delta update booster" if not an mRNA vaccine targeting the spike proteins as Pfizer and Moderna vaccines already do? Are you wishing for a Delta-specific vaccine that might not be effective on the original COVID strain(s) and could hold as-yet unknown risks?

The original strain is nowhere to be found. As for "unknown risks", that's another matter, but the way of making the vaccine is pretty much the same, so it seems very improbable that it would have worse side-effects than the current vaccines (and given the increased risk from delta vs. the unlikely side effects, it seems to me a booster against Delta would be a good idea, though I don't know what the cost would be).

This is the same mindset that gave us the Boeing 737-Max.

No, it is not. It is the mindset of being rational and considering the probable consequences of the different potential courses of action. The number of expected deaths is lower with a Delta-adapted vaccine. Btw, vaccines are regularly adapted against variants of other viruses too, e.g., flu viruses.
Rather, your mindset is that until tested, a vaccine is not safe to use somehow, and fails to account for the risks involved in not using it. It's like the tens of millions of AZ vaccines the US government sit on for months. Delivering them to countries that didn't have them (e.g., in Africa or Latin America) would have predictably saved many lives, though it's difficult to predict the number. The Biden administration just sit on them. Granted, it's not their job to save thousands of lives across the planet. But they could have done it easily. They did not. The whole risk assessment of most governments fails to account for the risks of inaction.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

WTF is a "Delta update booster" if not an mRNA vaccine targeting the spike proteins as Pfizer and Moderna vaccines already do? Are you wishing for a Delta-specific vaccine that might not be effective on the original COVID strain(s) and could hold as-yet unknown risks?

The original strain is nowhere to be found. As for "unknown risks", that's another matter, but the way of making the vaccine is pretty much the same, so it seems very improbable that it would have worse side-effects than the current vaccines (and given the increased risk from delta vs. the unlikely side effects, it seems to me a booster against Delta would be a good idea, though I don't know what the cost would be).

Exactly--the change is trivial, it would be very unlikely to function differently than the existing vaccine, except being more effective against Delta but probably less effective against the now-extinct original.

 

[repoman]

If a Delta specific vaccine is almost ready for release (1-2 months) by one of the current makers, I do not expect them to advertise this as it will slow to a crawl the use of current stock they have.

Or is this wrong?

What will happen if someone is mandated to get a vaccine and there is an official update to the vaccine but they could only get the current jab at the clinic? Will they be able to hold out to get the new one?

 

[Jarhyn]

If a Delta specific vaccine is almost ready for release (1-2 months) by one of the current makers, I do not expect them to advertise this as it will slow to a crawl the use of current stock they have.

Or is this wrong?

What will happen if someone is mandated to get a vaccine and there is an official update to the vaccine but they could only get the current jab at the clinic? Will they be able to hold out to get the new one?

Man, I don't often agree with you on anything but, this? Absolutely this.

I'd keep top fucking secret on that shit.

Thing is, to mix metaphors, there's too many humans in that loop, and the ship leaks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is the same mindset that gave us the Boeing 737-Max.

No, it is not. It is the mindset of being rational and considering the probable consequences of the different potential courses of action.

That is exactly what gave us the Boeing 737-Max. It was barely different at all.

The number of expected deaths is lower with a Delta-adapted vaccine. Btw, vaccines are regularly adapted against variants of other viruses too, e.g., flu viruses.

There is little evidence available that suggests the vaccine isn't effective against Delta. There is almost no data indicating that breakthroughs at this point would not have occurred with the original virus or the alpha variant. You are trying to solve a problem you don't know exists.

Rather, your mindset is that until tested, a vaccine is not safe to use somehow, and fails to account for the risks involved in not using it.

The mindset is that when you give a particular thing to billions of people, the acceptable risk drops through the basement. The a newish vaccine shouldn't be dangerous. But "shouldn't be" does not satisfy the threshold on safety when hundreds of millions to billions of people will be taking the vaccine.

Risk is monitored via multiple aspects:

1) side effect
2) rate of side effect
3) how many people exposed to the risk

Generally, the worse the side effect, the lower the rate of that side effect. But when 3 increases, that lowers thresholds greatly.

 

[Swammerdami]

Covid Griffters

Something that has baffled me is ... WHY? Why do the leaders of GOP and QAnon push lies about Covid-19? Assholes like Tucker Carlson and Ron DeSantis have gotten their own vaccines, know it's stupid not to get vaccinated, know that it's stupid to inject bleach in their arms (or whatever the latest right-wing remedy is) and know that their lies will cause many of their supporters to get sick or die. Why do they do this?

I've been over-thinking this! As MSNBC's Chris Hayes points out, it's all about MONEY. Fox does careful studies of what lies attract the most views. Faux-Potatoes, it turns out, "enjoy" lies about Covid-19, or rather — better for QOP — get angry believing those lies and ready to whip out their checkbook. Republican political agenda is not about what might be good for America, it's about what brings in the moolah. QOP fund-raising is a big industry which does lots of experiments. Researchers have found that Trumpists are simply more likely to write checks in response to lies about Covid-19 than in response to other lies. GOP consultants tell their clients that anti-Vax and anti-Mask are winning campaign issues; that they are based on lies is irrelevant. Operations which sell Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine on-line are generally owned by right-wing people.

QOP leaders don't care that their policies are stupid — these leaders have all been vaccinated. They don't care that literally 100's of thousands of Trumpists will die because of their lies: millions more will rise up to take their places. It's just all about the Benjamins, baby.

Many rational Americans are hoping that enough voters will be repelled by anti-Vax lies, to re-elect more Ds. The Rs really aren't worried about this. They just want the gullible to keep sending them money.

 

[crazyfingers]

Something that has baffled me is ... WHY? Why do the leaders of GOP and QAnon push lies about Covid-19? Assholes like Tucker Carlson and Ron DeSantis have gotten their own vaccines, know it's stupid not to get vaccinated, know that it's stupid to inject bleach in their arms (or whatever the latest right-wing remedy is) and know that their lies will cause many of their supporters to get sick or die. Why do they do this?

I've been over-thinking this! As MSNBC's Chris Hayes points out, it's all about MONEY. Fox does careful studies of what lies attract the most views. Faux-Potatoes, it turns out, "enjoy" lies about Covid-19, or rather — better for QOP — get angry believing those lies and ready to whip out their checkbook. Republican political agenda is not about what might be good for America, it's about what brings in the moolah. QOP fund-raising is a big industry which does lots of experiments. Researchers have found that Trumpists are simply more likely to write checks in response to lies about Covid-19 than in response to other lies. GOP consultants tell their clients that anti-Vax and anti-Mask are winning campaign issues; that they are based on lies is irrelevant. Operations which sell Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine on-line are generally owned by right-wing people.

QOP leaders don't care that their policies are stupid — these leaders have all been vaccinated. They don't care that literally 100's of thousands of Trumpists will die because of their lies: millions more will rise up to take their places. It's just all about the Benjamins, baby.

Many rational Americans are hoping that enough voters will be repelled by anti-Vax lies, to re-elect more Ds. The Rs really aren't worried about this. They just want the gullible to keep sending them money.

Yup. And these people who are paying out money don't think that there is anything maybe even a little bit suspicious that Fox requires employees to be vaccinated while pushing all these anti-vax lies.

 

[TomC]

Something that has baffled me is ... WHY?

I see it as unambiguously obstructionist. Cause as much damage to the USA in general as possible, then blame the Democrats.
Same thing happened during the Obama administration. TeaParty Republicans did everything they could to sabotage improvements to the situation in the U.S. so there were more problems to blame Obama and the Democrats for. From the economy to health care reform to peace in the Middle East, anything good the government managed to do for The People was sabotaged by TeaPartiers and their billionaire elite owners. Same thing is happening now. Trump, the TeaParty, and their handlers are sabotaging America. People like Putin.

They're knowingly destroying America, with the staunch support of Christian patriots.
Tom

 

[Keith&Co.]

Yup. And these people who are paying out money don't think that there is anything maybe even a little bit suspicious that Fox requires employees to be vaccinated while pushing all these anti-vax lies.

They would have to know that FOX requires vaccinations.
Fox won't tell them.
They don't listen to/won't believe anything else.

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | The pandemic didn’t have to be politicized. One party is to blame for it. - The Washington Post

This politicization is being shaped not just by the right, but by the Trumpian political style of performative belligerence — in other words, being a jerk in the loudest and most public way you can. After watching so many videos of Donald Trump fans screaming at public officials over masks, no one is surprised when, after New York creates an indoor vaccination mandate, a huge group storms a food court, leading gleeful cheers of “F--- Joe Biden!” and “Trump won!”

All while hospitals in one place after another are overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients.

About the Trump Admin,

They thought turning the pandemic into a partisan battle was the clever thing to do, and in some cases said so openly. Trump intentionally started fights with governors in the pandemic’s early stages, Jared Kushner said in the spring of 2020, so they could be the target of public anger. Then, when the pandemic ended and everyone went back to normal, it would be a political boon for Trump, because “the opening is going to be very popular.”

...
Today, only a small number of Republican officials seem genuinely committed to minimizing the number of deaths and ending the pandemic. A much larger number of them treat vaccine denialism the way they do their base’s belief that the 2020 election was fraudulent: They indulge it, treat it with a wink and a nod, and find ways to thunder at President Biden for being too aggressive in his public health decisions. Which makes everything worse.

Saying that it's both his fault and also that anything he proposes to combat the virus is evidence of what an autocrat he is.