Covid-19 miscellany

[marc]

Yup. And these people who are paying out money don't think that there is anything maybe even a little bit suspicious that Fox requires employees to be vaccinated while pushing all these anti-vax lies.

They would have to know that FOX requires vaccinations.
Fox won't tell them.
They don't listen to/won't believe anything else.

Also a lot of the real crazies have abandoned FOX in favor of Newsmax and OAN. Too much reality was seeping into the FOX coverage.

 

[marc]

All while hospitals in one place after another are overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients.

Which some are now even denying is happening, or if forced to admit a hospital is overwhelmed it is because of staff shortage due to vaccine mandates.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That is exactly what gave us the Boeing 737-Max. It was barely different at all.

The 737-max problem arose from the interests of the managers (short term benefit, they didn't expect to be in that position in the long run) vs the company overall (long term interest.)

Rather, your mindset is that until tested, a vaccine is not safe to use somehow, and fails to account for the risks involved in not using it.

The mindset is that when you give a particular thing to billions of people, the acceptable risk drops through the basement. The a newish vaccine shouldn't be dangerous. But "shouldn't be" does not satisfy the threshold on safety when hundreds of millions to billions of people will be taking the vaccine.

Risk is monitored via multiple aspects:

1) side effect
2) rate of side effect
3) how many people exposed to the risk

Generally, the worse the side effect, the lower the rate of that side effect. But when 3 increases, that lowers thresholds greatly.

As you have more people taking it the benefit also goes up. The risk/benefit has nothing to do with the population size, it's purely on a per-patient basis.

Generally you do see a pattern that drugs taken by many have to be safer, but that's because drugs taken by many are taken by patients who are at a low risk if they don't take it. That's not the case here.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If a Delta specific vaccine is almost ready for release (1-2 months) by one of the current makers, I do not expect them to advertise this as it will slow to a crawl the use of current stock they have.

Or is this wrong?

What will happen if someone is mandated to get a vaccine and there is an official update to the vaccine but they could only get the current jab at the clinic? Will they be able to hold out to get the new one?

The FDA process isn't secret, they couldn't hide it.

 

[blastula]

Something that has baffled me is ... WHY? Why do the leaders of GOP and QAnon push lies about Covid-19? Assholes like Tucker Carlson and Ron DeSantis have gotten their own vaccines, know it's stupid not to get vaccinated, know that it's stupid to inject bleach in their arms (or whatever the latest right-wing remedy is) and know that their lies will cause many of their supporters to get sick or die. Why do they do this?

I've been over-thinking this! As MSNBC's Chris Hayes points out, it's all about MONEY. Fox does careful studies of what lies attract the most views. Faux-Potatoes, it turns out, "enjoy" lies about Covid-19, or rather — better for QOP — get angry believing those lies and ready to whip out their checkbook. Republican political agenda is not about what might be good for America, it's about what brings in the moolah. QOP fund-raising is a big industry which does lots of experiments. Researchers have found that Trumpists are simply more likely to write checks in response to lies about Covid-19 than in response to other lies. GOP consultants tell their clients that anti-Vax and anti-Mask are winning campaign issues; that they are based on lies is irrelevant. Operations which sell Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine on-line are generally owned by right-wing people.

QOP leaders don't care that their policies are stupid — these leaders have all been vaccinated. They don't care that literally 100's of thousands of Trumpists will die because of their lies: millions more will rise up to take their places. It's just all about the Benjamins, baby.

Many rational Americans are hoping that enough voters will be repelled by anti-Vax lies, to re-elect more Ds. The Rs really aren't worried about this. They just want the gullible to keep sending them money.

And the medical professionals prescribing those quack treatments have been getting nicely paid for doing shit all.

NETWORK OF RIGHT-WING HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS IS MAKING MILLIONS OFF HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE AND IVERMECTIN, HACKED DATA REVEALS - The Intercept

The data also reveals that 72,000 people paid at least $6.7 million for Covid-19 consultations promoted by America’s Frontline Doctors and vaccine conspiracist Simone Gold.

 

[Trausti]

Opinion | The pandemic didn’t have to be politicized. One party is to blame for it. - The Washington Post

This politicization is being shaped not just by the right, but by the Trumpian political style of performative belligerence — in other words, being a jerk in the loudest and most public way you can. After watching so many videos of Donald Trump fans screaming at public officials over masks, no one is surprised when, after New York creates an indoor vaccination mandate, a huge group storms a food court, leading gleeful cheers of “F--- Joe Biden!” and “Trump won!”

All while hospitals in one place after another are overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients.

 

[Trausti]

All while hospitals in one place after another are overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients.

Which some are now even denying is happening, or if forced to admit a hospital is overwhelmed it is because of staff shortage due to vaccine mandates.

Is no one else curious why the media and politicians are so incurious on why so many healthcare providers are refusing the vax? 2020: Healthcare workers are heroes. 2021: You're fired.

 

[Toni]

Which some are now even denying is happening, or if forced to admit a hospital is overwhelmed it is because of staff shortage due to vaccine mandates.

Is no one else curious why the media and politicians are so incurious on why so many healthcare providers are refusing the vax? 2020: Healthcare workers are heroes. 2021: You're fired.

I'm not incurious at all nor, I suspect, are media or politicians. I worked in health care for years. Knew a few people who SWORE that flu shots gave them the flu, although that is impossible.

The fact is that not everyone in health care is really that bright. That's the truth, and yes, I'm including physicians. Health care workers are human beings and some small percentage of them are, unfortunately, inclined to believe whatever conspiracy theory out there is presented to them if it seems to confirm their own biases and fears.

 

[Trausti]

Which some are now even denying is happening, or if forced to admit a hospital is overwhelmed it is because of staff shortage due to vaccine mandates.

Is no one else curious why the media and politicians are so incurious on why so many healthcare providers are refusing the vax? 2020: Healthcare workers are heroes. 2021: You're fired.

I'm not incurious at all nor, I suspect, are media or politicians. I worked in health care for years. Knew a few people who SWORE that flu shots gave them the flu, although that is impossible.

The fact is that not everyone in health care is really that bright. That's the truth, and yes, I'm including physicians. Health care workers are human beings and some small percentage of them are, unfortunately, inclined to believe whatever conspiracy theory out there is presented to them if it seems to confirm their own biases and fears.

I dunno. My wife works healthcare, is vaxed. She tried to persuade me not to based her patients who got sick after the jab. Did it anyway. But your assumption that people who think differently than you are stupid says more about you than them.

 

[Trausti]

Had my first post-COVID in-person court trial recently. When the jury was in the courtroom, everyone wore masks. When it was just the judge and attorneys/parties, masks off. It's all theater.

Postoperative wound infections and surgical face masks: a controlled study

It has never been shown that wearing surgical face masks decreases postoperative wound infections. On the contrary, a 50% decrease has been reported after omitting face masks. The present study was designed to reveal any 30% or greater difference in general surgery wound infection rates by using face masks or not.

Disposable surgical face masks for preventing surgical wound infection in clean surgery

Main results: We included three trials, involving a total of 2106 participants. There was no statistically significant difference in infection rates between the masked and unmasked group in any of the trials.

Maybe masks "work" for respiratory infections because they make socializing awkward. Wonder if we could reduce the transmission rate if we bathed in skunk spray.

 

[Toni]

I'm not incurious at all nor, I suspect, are media or politicians. I worked in health care for years. Knew a few people who SWORE that flu shots gave them the flu, although that is impossible.

The fact is that not everyone in health care is really that bright. That's the truth, and yes, I'm including physicians. Health care workers are human beings and some small percentage of them are, unfortunately, inclined to believe whatever conspiracy theory out there is presented to them if it seems to confirm their own biases and fears.

I dunno. My wife works healthcare, is vaxed. She tried to persuade me not to based her patients who got sick after the jab. Did it anyway. But your assumption that people who think differently than you are stupid says more about you than them.

I retired after years in health care. Most people who are involved in patient care are intelligent and well educated and understand science.

Some do not. Some prefer woo and some prefer to be influenced by politics rather than data. Some prefer to ...do what their mood or their preconceived notions tell them to do, not well established protocols. These are not bright people or even well meaning people. These are people who are driven by their own egos rather than the needs of the patients.

I never called anyone stupid. I said that not everyone in health care is really that bright--which is true of human beings in any and all professions.

I have no idea what you mean by your wife's patients getting sick after the jab. She's a physician? A nurse? A PA? An NP? I have no idea. I also have no idea what 'sick' means in this context.

 

[Trausti]

I'm not incurious at all nor, I suspect, are media or politicians. I worked in health care for years. Knew a few people who SWORE that flu shots gave them the flu, although that is impossible.

The fact is that not everyone in health care is really that bright. That's the truth, and yes, I'm including physicians. Health care workers are human beings and some small percentage of them are, unfortunately, inclined to believe whatever conspiracy theory out there is presented to them if it seems to confirm their own biases and fears.

I dunno. My wife works healthcare, is vaxed. She tried to persuade me not to based her patients who got sick after the jab. Did it anyway. But your assumption that people who think differently than you are stupid says more about you than them.

I retired after years in health care. Most people who are involved in patient care are intelligent and well educated and understand science.

Some do not. Some prefer woo and some prefer to be influenced by politics rather than data. Some prefer to ...do what their mood or their preconceived notions tell them to do, not well established protocols. These are not bright people or even well meaning people. These are people who are driven by their own egos rather than the needs of the patients.

I never called anyone stupid. I said that not everyone in health care is really that bright--which is true of human beings in any and all professions.

I have no idea what you mean by your wife's patients getting sick after the jab. She's a physician? A nurse? A PA? An NP? I have no idea. I also have no idea what 'sick' means in this context.

Well, do you think people should be fired for choosing not to? I mean, if we're supposedly in an epidemic and worried about hospital capacity, surely firing doctors and nurses would seem not the best idea?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Well, do you think people should be fired for choosing not to? I mean, if we're supposedly in an epidemic and worried about hospital capacity, surely firing doctors and nurses would seem not the best idea?

Presumably, the hospitals believe that not firing them and allowing them to be vectors for bringing more sickness into the hospital would be worse than not having them at their jobs.

I understand that in New York the governor is allowing out-of-state hospital workers to come and fill their positions should they be fired for denying vaccination.

 

[Trausti]

Well, do you think people should be fired for choosing not to? I mean, if we're supposedly in an epidemic and worried about hospital capacity, surely firing doctors and nurses would seem not the best idea?

Presumably, the hospitals believe that not firing them and allowing them to be vectors for bringing more sickness into the hospital would be worse than not having them at their jobs.

I understand that in New York the governor is allowing out-of-state hospital workers to come and fill their positions should they be fired for denying vaccination.

Woah, woah. In New York it is not "hospitals believe"; it is a government diktat.

 

[Trausti]

Why would DeSantis do this?

Norway celebrates end of COVID-19 restrictions

 

[Shadowy Man]

Well, do you think people should be fired for choosing not to? I mean, if we're supposedly in an epidemic and worried about hospital capacity, surely firing doctors and nurses would seem not the best idea?

Presumably, the hospitals believe that not firing them and allowing them to be vectors for bringing more sickness into the hospital would be worse than not having them at their jobs.

I understand that in New York the governor is allowing out-of-state hospital workers to come and fill their positions should they be fired for denying vaccination.

Woah, woah. In New York it is not "hospitals believe"; it is a government diktat.

Is that because the courts shut down all the lawsuits by NY hospitals against the mandate?? Oh, wait…

Do you have evidence that NY health care systems were in disagreement with the Department of Health? Can you point me to those stories?

 

[lpetrich]

Why would DeSantis do this?

Norway celebrates end of COVID-19 restrictions

Anti-vaxxers would HATE why they decided that it was safe to do so.

More than 4.1 million Norwegians have received a first dose of the COVID-19 vaccine, with over 3.6 million fully vaccinated, according to the World Health Organization. Roughly 5.3 million people live in the country.

That's 77% with at least one dose and 68% with a complete set. It's sensible to reduce restrictions or end them outright with vaccination and indoor masking.

Governor DeSantis would get very distraught and scream "No! No! No! No! No! Vaccines and masks are for cowards!!!"

However,

The removal of most of the COVID-19 restrictions will allow sports venues and restaurants to fill up to full capacity, as well as permit nightclubs to reopen. While these restrictions were lifted on Saturday, Solberg did warn that anyone who contracted COVID-19 would need to go into isolation to avoid spreading the virus, according to Reuters.

 

[lpetrich]

(snipped: lots of petty sniping against Robert Reich, Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo, Bernie Sanders, Joy-Ann Reid, and Rachel Maddow)

They opposed what seemed like Trump's recklessness, and the Trump Administration gave very little reason to believe that it would pursue a careful policy. This is from Trump dismissing the virus as a non-issue and supporting worthless "treatments" for it.

But once the vaccines were developed and their safety record became evident, they endorsed those vaccines.

I agree with both stances.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Wow! And you were the one in another thread arguing that laymen should capitulate to "expert" opinion even on matters where their expertise is irrelevant. Just, WOW!

I didn't provide a link, but Googling the headline I quoted jumps to the article:

In August 2021, a preliminary but large-scale study investigating brain changes in people who had experienced COVID-19 drew a great deal of attention within the neuroscience community.

In that study, researchers relied on an existing database called the UK Biobank, which contains brain imaging data from over 45,000 people in the U.K. going back to 2014. This means – crucially – that there was baseline data and brain imaging of all of those people from before the pandemic.

The research team analyzed the brain imaging data and then brought back those who had been diagnosed with COVID-19 for additional brain scans. They compared people who had experienced COVID-19 to participants who had not, carefully matching the groups based on age, sex, baseline test date and study location, as well as common risk factors for disease, such as health variables and socioeconomic status.

The team found marked differences in gray matter – which is made up of the cell bodies of neurons that process information in the brain – between those who had been infected with COVID-19 and those who had not. Specifically, the thickness of the gray matter tissue in brain regions known as the frontal and temporal lobes was reduced in the COVID-19 group, differing from the typical patterns seen in the group that hadn’t experienced COVID-19.

It sure sounds like researchers with relevant credentials doing science. I know some extremists think climate change is a hoax promulgated by scientists being pimped by Big_Green. In your opinion has the UK Biobank been subverted by Big_Vaccine? Big_Mask?

I agree that it's something researchers should research. Any biological data is evidence that a study is warranted. If only to prove that there's nothing there. It might also be a once in a millennia opportunity to test how our brains are effected by a novel virus.

It still doesn't mean they think they'll find anything or that there's any reason to worry. That's just stuff you've projected onto that article.

 

[TomC]

They opposed what seemed like Trump's recklessness, and the Trump Administration gave very little reason to believe that it would pursue a careful policy. This is from Trump dismissing the virus as a non-issue and supporting worthless "treatments" for it.

I was leery of the vaccine at first. I knew it been developed during the Trump administration and that Trump tended to value ideology and loyalty over competence in high level appointments.

By May I was over it, but due to my age I was eligible in March.
Tom