Covid-19 miscellany

[Angra Mainyu]

My god you really have no understanding of all this do you?

The difference here is freedom. I favor it; you apparently do not. There will always be pathogens and other creepy crawlies out there. It seems to have been forgotten that this was the world before March 2020. We have vaccines that work pretty well for the new gain-of-function arrival. Should some decide not to get it, that’s their choice. The persistent fear mongering is out of proportion to reality.

Difference between what?
Anyway, freedom is one of the issues at hand. Another one is risks to others. A central question here is what sort of government restriction of freedom is justified on the basis of the risk from covid. And yes, corresponding questions for, say, flu viruses or other transmissible diseases are also relevant. These aren't easy questions, and one should address them on a case-by-case basis given the difference in risks. Also, there are very different degrees of restriction of freedom (e.g., get the vaccine or we no longer employ you vs. get the vaccine or we just grab you and forcibly give you the vaccine anyway)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm pro-vaccine but cynicism is always necessary.

That "screenshot" is not laid out like their website. I see no reason to think it's anything other than a low-grade photoshop because she knows the sheep won't check.

Lets look at some other stuff she's posted:

I spend so much time arguing on behalf of the naturally immune, the unvaccinated & against vaccine mandates, that I forget that I'm vaccinated.

I mean y’all are making it REAL hard for me to argue that the vax isn’t the mark of the beast.

Aren't those rather contradictory??

and while she pretends to be about data I also find:

The problem w/ every school masking study?

No control group

Why?

Kids are constantly enrolled in clinical trials

There’s not a single case of pediatric transmission in schools leading to mortality

So why won’t researchers use a control group?

They don’t want the answer.

Duh! That's an Mengele level experiment she's asking for.

Journalists

Want us to believe you’re not intentionally fueling covid hysteria?

Then EVERY Covid Story needs to include:

AGE

BMI

PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS

ADDITIONAL AILMENTS

VACCINATION STATUS

PREVIOUS CV19 INFECTION: Y/N

WHERE CV19 WAS CONTRACTED

1) There's a bunch of protected health info here--it could only be reported with the patient's (or their estate's) permission.

2) The last one is almost certainly an unknown.


It's quite clear she doesn't actually care about the truth, this is just a death cultist.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Agreed. I looked too. Unless i'm given a URL I believe that AAP page is a fake.

I think it's real but hugely misleading.

http://www.scaap.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Foxworth-CATCH-Update-and-Highlights.pdf

Pfizer doesn't fund AAP as such, but they do help fund the AAP Community Access To Child Health (CATCH) program, which is a tightly focused program of grants for specific innovation initiatives in Paediatric Community Health, where those initiatives could not be funded in other ways.

There's no indication of any conflict of interest; Pfizer doesn't appear to fund the AAP, other than in the provision of CATCH grant money. The pdf at my link (above) lists the specific exclusions from eligibility for CATCH funding, and it's very clear that this funding doesn't support the AAP itself, its administration, or its members and their activities, other than innovations in community child health specifically defined.

That pdf makes clear that Pfizer is the major donor to the CATCH program. That's not the same thing as being the AAP's "biggest donor" as alleged by the meme.

But to a conspiracy theorist, everything looks like a conspiracy.

The problem is the page doesn't look like AAP pages, the layout is wrong.

I suspect the material is real but not the page it "appears" on.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Exactly... just like the Boeing 737-Max. The changes weren't that significant. What is the danger? That is the question that has led to lots of suffering. Remember Flint, MI? The water was too corrosive. But was it safe to drink, except that wasn't the only issue. What is the danger?

Well, I'm not an expert on the 737-max, but afaik, there was a significant change in the way the plane was programmed to react. In the case of the vaccines, it's an mRNA vaccine with the spike protein of a virus that no longer exists among the public, vs, the spike protein of a virus that does. The latter would create better immunity. And what you are not taking into consideration is that as long as you keep using a less effective vaccine, more people get sick, including some who get seriously sick and die.

In other words, when asking about the danger, one ought to consider also the danger of not updating the vaccine.

However, there's the issue of whether you can put a Delta-specific vaccine through the system fast enough to deploy it before Delta is no longer the main threat. It was almost a year from the start to the EUA for the current vaccines, there's no reason to think it would go any faster for a delta-specific one. I can't imagine a delta-specific vaccine before at best Q2 2022 and Q3 would be more like it. Will it be important enough for an EUA by then, or are we looking at probably Q1 2023 for approval?

If by "through the system" you mean begin producing it, it might be. If you mean something like going up to phase 3 trials, then the problem is the "through the system" part. The system is part of the problem because it's too slow. The risks have to be weight vs. the risks of not acting. Think of the flu vaccines: new ones always get ready in time. Is it because they're easier to adapt, or because the system is not being a problem there?

 

[lpetrich]

GOP Launches Fundraising Frenzy Off Biden Vax Mandates - "Republicans have discovered that Joe Biden’s vaccine mandates can be used to raise sick cash."

The Republican National Committee sent out e-mails saying things like:

“WE WILL SUE BIDEN TO END HIS AUTHORITARIAN VACCINE MANDATE,” the first of the emails read, claiming Americans risk losing their freedoms “like never before.”

“We’re calling on EVERY Patriot to step up and help fund our efforts. Are you going to join us or will you sit on the sidelines?” email asked, and suggested a $45 donation.

The solicitations went out almost daily for the next two weeks, and grew increasingly Orwellian in tenor. Texts attacked Biden as “UN-AMERICAN” and a “TYRANT,” and emails played up fears of “fascist” overreach.

“You MUST step up RIGHT NOW and fund our efforts against Biden to end this EVIL vaccine mandate or all will be lost!” read an email sent Sunday, Sept. 12. Another sent around the same time reminded recipients that “lawsuits like this are expensive,” and again suggested a $45 contribution would be sufficient to back the effort.

Even as Fox News has an internal vaccine mandate.

The surge in fundraising pleas and rhetorical blitzes on vaccine “freedom” have only intensified this summer across the Republican Party—whether it’s among the heavyweights in conservative media, top contenders in GOP primaries ahead of the 2022 midterms, or prominent Republicans on Capitol Hill and the party’s leader, Trump.

One Fox News insider succinctly described the anti-COVID-mandate segments and vaccine-resistant commentary as “great for ratings.” Another current Fox employee said the numbers clearly demonstrated that there are vanishingly fewer subjects these days that get “our viewers more excited or engaged than” those kinds of segments.

As for the campaign trail, four different longtime Republican strategists told The Daily Beast that they have encouraged various 2022 GOP candidates who they’re each advising to lean heavily into anti-COVID-mandate messaging, viewing it as perhaps the winning issue with the conservative and Trump base of voters.

So it's for rallying the base, even if most the rest of the nation thinks that that is wrong and dangerous. As to Trump himself,

Trump’s political operation has also found the anti-mandate message as a handy fundraising tool. More and more frequently, Trump’s desire to claim credit for the production of the vaccines and to promote them has been steamrolled by his commitment to reassuring his fans that he champions their “freedoms” to refuse vaccination, masking, and mandates. To those who have spoken directly to the ex-president about this topic, Trump’s self-interested motivation is crystal clear: he doesn’t want to upset his base, and he’s told confidants who’ve urged him to launch a major vaccination push that too many of “my people” simply don’t want the shots.

But in the recent weeks of his post-presidency, Trump’s fundraising apparatus has sent out several appeals to donors and supporters declaring, “FREEDOM PASSPORTS > VACCINE PASSPORTS,” as one recent ask blared.

They might try to encourage masking and vaccination, and they might say "Let's show that we don't need mandates to do it." But they don't.

One must note that Fox has quietly implemented its own version of a vaccine passport while its top personalities attack them - CNN

 

[lpetrich]

Health Care Network Made Millions Off Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin - "The data also reveals that 72,000 people paid at least $6.7 million for Covid-19 consultations promoted by America’s Frontline Doctors and vaccine conspiracist Simone Gold."

A network of health care providers pocketed millions of dollars selling hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and online consultations, according to hacked data provided to The Intercept. The data show that vast sums of money are being extracted from people concerned about or suffering from Covid-19 but resistant to vaccinations or other recommendations of public health authorities.

...
The Intercept has obtained hundreds of thousands of records from two companies, CadenceHealth.us and Ravkoo, revealing just how the lucrative operation works. America’s Frontline Doctors, or AFLDS, has been spreading highly politicized misinformation about Covid-19 since the summer of 2020 and refers its many followers to its telemedicine partner SpeakWithAnMD.com, which uses Cadence Health as a platform. People who sign up then pay $90 for a phone consultation with “AFLDS-trained physicians” who prescribe treatments such as hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin to prevent and treat Covid-19. The drugs are delivered by Ravkoo, a service that works with local pharmacies to ship drugs to patients’ doors. Of course, that’s if patients ever get the consultation; many customers told Time they never received the call after paying.

The data from the Cadence Health and Ravkoo sites was provided to The Intercept by an anonymous hacker who said the sites were “hilariously easy” to hack, despite promises of patient privacy. It was corroborated by comparing it to publicly available information.

How might that hacker have done that? Phishing? Using site vulnerabilities like vulnerability to SQL injection?

Phishing is making fake login pages and collecting usernames and passwords with them. SQL injection is editing a database command with what you enter in a text field. There are ways of making it impossible to edit database commands with text-field contents: bobby-tables.com: A guide to preventing SQL injection

 

[lpetrich]

Who are these people with this noble-sounding name?

America’s Frontline Doctors, which debuted in the summer of 2020, has close ties to a network of right-wing efforts to undermine public health during the pandemic, including the Tea Party Patriots. AFLDS’s founder, physician Simone Gold, was arrested and charged after the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol on January 6. She and other doctors have appeared in widely shared videos arguing that the drugs hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin — which are primarily used to treat malaria in humans and parasitic worms in livestock, respectively — are effective treatments for Covid-19, despite warnings from the World Health Organization and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention against using them.

The extremely partisan group also misleads people about Covid-19 vaccines, which they refer to as “experimental biological agents,” and against public health measures like vaccine mandates, masking, social distancing, and restrictions on businesses. In a video titled “The Truth About Covid-19 Vaccines,” which has received over 1.3 million views, Gold falsely argues that Covid-19 is not very deadly and that the vaccines are more dangerous than the virus itself. Over 690,000 Americans so far have died from the virus, and unvaccinated people now make up 99 percent of recent Covid-19 deaths.

Vaccines more dangerous than the virus itself???


Ivermectin has been used to treat a large range of jawed vertebrates for infestations of unwanted arthropods and nematodes. I can't find anything on treating sharks, jawless fish, or invertebrates. I could find stuff on ivermectin for fish farms, but not for shrimp farms or oyster farms or clam farms.

• Ivermectin | elephantcare - successfully used to treat elephant lice. Mentions several other species that it's been used to treat.
• (PDF) Ivermectin treatment of lice infestations in two elephant species
• Treatment and Eradication of Murine Fur Mites: I. Toxicologic Evaluation of Ivermectin-Compounded Feed - fur mites of mice
• Parasitic Diseases of Nonhuman Primates - Exotic and Laboratory Animals - Merck Veterinary Manual - mostly monkeys and apes
• The efficacy of anthelmintic drugs against nematodes infecting free-ranging eastern grey kangaroos, Macropus giganteus - PubMed
• Efficacy of ivermectin as an anthelmintic in leopard frogs - PubMed

 

[WAB]

That "screenshot" is not laid out like their website. I see no reason to think it's anything other than a low-grade photoshop because she knows the sheep won't check.

Lets look at some other stuff she's posted:

I mean y’all are making it REAL hard for me to argue that the vax isn’t the mark of the beast.

Aren't those rather contradictory??

and while she pretends to be about data I also find:

The problem w/ every school masking study?

No control group

Why?

Kids are constantly enrolled in clinical trials

There’s not a single case of pediatric transmission in schools leading to mortality

So why won’t researchers use a control group?

They don’t want the answer.

Duh! That's an Mengele level experiment she's asking for.

Journalists

Want us to believe you’re not intentionally fueling covid hysteria?

Then EVERY Covid Story needs to include:

AGE

BMI

PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS

ADDITIONAL AILMENTS

VACCINATION STATUS

PREVIOUS CV19 INFECTION: Y/N

WHERE CV19 WAS CONTRACTED

1) There's a bunch of protected health info here--it could only be reported with the patient's (or their estate's) permission.

2) The last one is almost certainly an unknown.


It's quite clear she doesn't actually care about the truth, this is just a death cultist.

Excuse me? (See bit that I bolded and enlarged.) Do you even know any details of what Mengele actually did?

Right there, with that obviously absurd, hyperbolic comparison, is true hysteria.

 

[repoman]

The guy with the vax hesitant daughter's boyfriend.

Does the boyfriend have health insurance?

If not, why not put $10,000 in notarized escrow to pay bills for his very unlikely severe vaccine side effects?

If no side effects you would be only out the notary fee.

Earth to repoman:

It wasn't about the boyfriend. It was about the risk to his not-yet-able-to-be-vaccinated wife.

And the financial risk to the boyfriend from rare side effects? Doesn't matter?

You gotta give to get.

 

[crazyfingers]

The guy with the vax hesitant daughter's boyfriend.

Does the boyfriend have health insurance?

If not, why not put $10,000 in notarized escrow to pay bills for his very unlikely severe vaccine side effects?

If no side effects you would be only out the notary fee.

Earth to repoman:

It wasn't about the boyfriend. It was about the risk to his not-yet-able-to-be-vaccinated wife.

And the financial risk to the boyfriend from rare side effects? Doesn't matter?

You gotta give to get.

I believe it's my situation that you're discussing. For repo, the point is that while my daughter is vaccinated, her boyfriend, who she is intimate with, is not. My daughter lives here at home and soon my wife will be returning home from Canada where, as a US citizen, she has not been able to get vaccinated. My wife has been in Canada since before the vaccines became available because she needed to care for her elderly mother.

My concern is my daughter getting an asymsomatic or symptomatic case from her boyfriend and infecting my wife between when she comes home and the 5-6 weeks it takes to be fully vaccinated.

The boyfriend, choosing not to vaccinate, is creating problems for me and my wife and could make big problems for my daughter. My daughter may not be able to live at home when my wife gets home. Call me hard nosed, but I will not let his irresponsible decision risk my wife.

I couldn't care less whether the boyfriend has insurance or not.

 

[Harry Bosch]

And the financial risk to the boyfriend from rare side effects? Doesn't matter?

You gotta give to get.

I believe it's my situation that you're discussing. For repo, the point is that while my daughter is vaccinated, her boyfriend, who she is intimate with, is not. My daughter lives here at home and soon my wife will be returning home from Canada where, as a US citizen, she has not been able to get vaccinated. My wife has been in Canada since before the vaccines became available because she needed to care for her elderly mother.

My concern is my daughter getting an asymsomatic or symptomatic case from her boyfriend and infecting my wife between when she comes home and the 5-6 weeks it takes to be fully vaccinated.

The boyfriend, choosing not to vaccinate, is creating problems for me and my wife and could make big problems for my daughter. My daughter may not be able to live at home when my wife gets home. Call me hard nosed, but I will not let his irresponsible decision risk my wife.

I couldn't care less whether the boyfriend has insurance or not.

Dude: I'm in a similar situation. But then was glad to see my daughter dump her boyfriend on her own. I'm sorry, but I just feel that people who are unvaccinated are just irresponsible and inconsiderate. I don't really want them in my life. Luckily my daughter agrees.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Exactly... just like the Boeing 737-Max. The changes weren't that significant. What is the danger? That is the question that has led to lots of suffering. Remember Flint, MI? The water was too corrosive. But was it safe to drink, except that wasn't the only issue. What is the danger?

Well, I'm not an expert on the 737-max, but afaik, there was a significant change in the way the plane was programmed to react.

Funny, I don't recall you complaining about that before the crashes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And the financial risk to the boyfriend from rare side effects? Doesn't matter?

You gotta give to get.

I believe it's my situation that you're discussing. For repo, the point is that while my daughter is vaccinated, her boyfriend, who she is intimate with, is not. My daughter lives here at home and soon my wife will be returning home from Canada where, as a US citizen, she has not been able to get vaccinated. My wife has been in Canada since before the vaccines became available because she needed to care for her elderly mother.

My concern is my daughter getting an asymsomatic or symptomatic case from her boyfriend and infecting my wife between when she comes home and the 5-6 weeks it takes to be fully vaccinated.

The boyfriend, choosing not to vaccinate, is creating problems for me and my wife and could make big problems for my daughter. My daughter may not be able to live at home when my wife gets home. Call me hard nosed, but I will not let his irresponsible decision risk my wife.

I couldn't care less whether the boyfriend has insurance or not.

[blunt mode

]If the relationship is serious, this is an issue (red flag) of how this meathead will handle important decisions down the road.

If the relationship is more casual, there must be vaccinated boys to boff.

 

[crazyfingers]

And the financial risk to the boyfriend from rare side effects? Doesn't matter?

You gotta give to get.

I believe it's my situation that you're discussing. For repo, the point is that while my daughter is vaccinated, her boyfriend, who she is intimate with, is not. My daughter lives here at home and soon my wife will be returning home from Canada where, as a US citizen, she has not been able to get vaccinated. My wife has been in Canada since before the vaccines became available because she needed to care for her elderly mother.

My concern is my daughter getting an asymsomatic or symptomatic case from her boyfriend and infecting my wife between when she comes home and the 5-6 weeks it takes to be fully vaccinated.

The boyfriend, choosing not to vaccinate, is creating problems for me and my wife and could make big problems for my daughter. My daughter may not be able to live at home when my wife gets home. Call me hard nosed, but I will not let his irresponsible decision risk my wife.

I couldn't care less whether the boyfriend has insurance or not.

[blunt mode

]If the relationship is serious, this is an issue (red flag) of how this meathead will handle important decisions down the road.

If the relationship is more casual, there must be vaccinated boys to boff.

I agree. I don't know what he thinks about how his boneheaded choice is impacting my daughter. I also don't see it as a good sign.

My daughter says that he feels excluded. He's not allowed to come in our house. OK well he feels excluded. I don't allow unvaccinated people in my house. He can get vaccinated.

Back the end of August we went to our house in Maine for vacation. Me, the boys and daughter. He came to visit. My sister in law was there too on our arrival. The house is jointly owned by my wife and her sister. Her sister was working on the house going in and out and doing stuff in the yard. She didn't want him on the property because he's not vaccinated. OK that's the way it is. But he felt excluded.

He can get vaccinated and then he doesn't need to be excluded. It's really very simple.

 

[Toni]

[blunt mode

]If the relationship is serious, this is an issue (red flag) of how this meathead will handle important decisions down the road.

If the relationship is more casual, there must be vaccinated boys to boff.

I agree. I don't know what he thinks about how his boneheaded choice is impacting my daughter. I also don't see it as a good sign.

My daughter says that he feels excluded. He's not allowed to come in our house. OK well he feels excluded. I don't allow unvaccinated people in my house. He can get vaccinated.

Back the end of August we went to our house in Maine for vacation. Me, the boys and daughter. He came to visit. My sister in law was there too on our arrival. The house is jointly owned by my wife and her sister. Her sister was working on the house going in and out and doing stuff in the yard. She didn't want him on the property because he's not vaccinated. OK that's the way it is. But he felt excluded.

He can get vaccinated and then he doesn't need to be excluded. It's really very simple.

From what you've written before, the men in his household are not vaccinated and (reading between the lines) are anti-vax. However he himself feels (I won't dignify the process as thinking), he may be really struggling with wanting to maintain whatever kind of relationship he has with his family and meeting the expectations of your family. Your daughter likely is not insisting he get vaccinated or else because she's afraid he'll choose or else. And, assuming he's at least open to being vaccinated, it is not unlikely that his family has stated a similar condition: remain unvaccinated or else. It's a tough decision when you are young and probably at least somewhat financially dependent on your family. And it's tough for your daughter as well. One of the tasks that we have to learn to handle in relationships while we are young is standing up for ourselves. Young love, hormones and insecurity muddle the process up considerably.

Which does not mean that you do not have every right --and are morally and scientifically right to insist that he not spend time inside your house unless he's vaccinated. It's absolutely the correct and the right thing to do.

Bonus: regardless of whether this is your intention and regardless of whether your daughter sees it this way, you are modeling good boundary setting for her and for your boys. You may have some sympathy for he or even for the boyfriend but you need to take care of your family. And yourself.

 

[crazyfingers]

[blunt mode

]If the relationship is serious, this is an issue (red flag) of how this meathead will handle important decisions down the road.

If the relationship is more casual, there must be vaccinated boys to boff.

I agree. I don't know what he thinks about how his boneheaded choice is impacting my daughter. I also don't see it as a good sign.

My daughter says that he feels excluded. He's not allowed to come in our house. OK well he feels excluded. I don't allow unvaccinated people in my house. He can get vaccinated.

Back the end of August we went to our house in Maine for vacation. Me, the boys and daughter. He came to visit. My sister in law was there too on our arrival. The house is jointly owned by my wife and her sister. Her sister was working on the house going in and out and doing stuff in the yard. She didn't want him on the property because he's not vaccinated. OK that's the way it is. But he felt excluded.

He can get vaccinated and then he doesn't need to be excluded. It's really very simple.

From what you've written before, the men in his household are not vaccinated and (reading between the lines) are anti-vax. However he himself feels (I won't dignify the process as thinking), he may be really struggling with wanting to maintain whatever kind of relationship he has with his family and meeting the expectations of your family. Your daughter likely is not insisting he get vaccinated or else because she's afraid he'll choose or else. And, assuming he's at least open to being vaccinated, it is not unlikely that his family has stated a similar condition: remain unvaccinated or else. It's a tough decision when you are young and probably at least somewhat financially dependent on your family. And it's tough for your daughter as well. One of the tasks that we have to learn to handle in relationships while we are young is standing up for ourselves. Young love, hormones and insecurity muddle the process up considerably.

Which does not mean that you do not have every right --and are morally and scientifically right to insist that he not spend time inside your house unless he's vaccinated. It's absolutely the correct and the right thing to do.

Bonus: regardless of whether this is your intention and regardless of whether your daughter sees it this way, you are modeling good boundary setting for her and for your boys. You may have some sympathy for he or even for the boyfriend but you need to take care of your family. And yourself.

You are correct as far as I understand it. 11 people live in his parents house. The women are vaccinated and the men are not. I don't know anything about the why's on that situation and what, if any, social pressures are going on. I do know that they all vote Republican.

I don't know why he refuses to get vaccinated. He's given my daughter some pretty weak excuses. One is he doesn't have time. I call bullshit on that. He can walk into any CVS, Walgreen or other place without an appointment. Another is he's waiting for only one vaccine to be the one authorized. Never going to happen and what's the point of that anyway?

Perhaps he doesn't want the others in the house to know? I don't know. But they don't need to know if he actually wanted to be vaccinated.

 

[Trausti]

 

[Harry Bosch]

I'll say it for the 50th time: I understand why some don't want to get a vaccine. I don't agree. But I understand the fear. However, for the life of me, can't understand why some have such little regard for others, that they refuse to wear a mask. Such a small tiny sacrifice. Two or three generations ago, we had the "greatest generation" willing to make great sacrifices to win WW2 along with our allies. What should we call the whiny conservative crybabies of today who have such little regard for others? The worst generation?

 

[crazyfingers]

The caricature on the right is so wildly wrong it's pretty much a lie. For example, it's not about Obeying the Establishment. It's about doing what medical science clearly shows is the responsible thing to do to avoid injuring or killing others. What ever happened to Republican's alleged embrace of personal responsibility? Gone it appears. Republicans now embrace being as irresponsible as possible. You see it on vaccines, masks, guns, debt ceilings, voting issues, racism and a whole basked of other examples where being irresponsible as possible is seen as a virtue.

 

[TomC]

Two or three generations ago, we had the "greatest generation" willing to make great sacrifices to win WW2 along with our allies. What should we call the whiny conservative crybabies of today who have such little regard for others? The worst generation?

The culture of victimhood and entitlement has spread. Now, even cis-het WASP males of means have adopted it. Trump is a prime example. His supporters are very similar.

They're victims. They're entitled to more than the rest of us.
Tom