Covid-19 miscellany

[bilby]

Florida is open baby !!

More than 300,000 bikers rolled into Daytona Beach this week with a defiant message for President Joe Biden and his national mask mandate: 'This is America, you can't tell us what to do.' The famed Spring Break mecca pushed ahead with its 80th annual Bike Week despite fears it could spawn a Covid-19 superspreader event. DailyMail.com joined the giant rally as leather-clad motorcyclists from every state in the nation cruised down Main Street for a raucous party on two wheels. Virtually nobody wore a mask or practiced social distancing as tattooed revelers packed into bars to sing along to REO Speedwagon covers and kick back with $3 beers.

DailyMail

This is going to upset the control freaks !

And kill a bunch of people. But that doesn't bother you, does it.

We can only hope that some of the dead are Daily Mail "journalists".

 

[bilby]

I don’t really care or worry about what other people do. The thing I like about it is that it gets all the control freaks raging mad that they can’t control people.

There's something fundamentally wrong with any person whose 'likes' are derived from the fact that other people are suffering.

There's nothing here about you. You're not happy because you gain something, or because someone you care about gains something. You are happy because people you identify as 'other' are mad.

That's just bizarre. I cannot grasp how that can even work. It's like your entire existence is dependent on schadenfreude.

It doesn't matter if people die. It doesn't matter if the world goes to shit. It doesn't matter if your own comfort, or even your life, is put at risk; As long as "the control freaks" are upset, it's all good. WTF is wrong with you? Seriously, were you dropped on your head at birth? Have you suffered some major psychiatric trauma? Or are you just a total cunt?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

AK47s is not reality.

It would not be reality to claim that they were carrying AK47s, but I did not make such claims.

Rather, I used this as an analogy, and it is reality that the case is analogous in the sense I explained, namely that it endangers the health and lives of people (including third parties who are not involved), and will probably kill some people (well, in the case of the AK47s, that depends on the numbers of shots fired; but one can adjust the number), while the cost of refraining from engaging in such activity is extremely low. One can add it is also analogous in that the probable victims are not intended victims, and further, the participants do not believe they're creating significant risks for other people.

But again, in addition to the analogy, I presented a case not using the analogy at all, and which stands on its own. Thus, if you believe that the AK analogy is not reality, you still have the rest of my non-AK-related post.

I understand the science and data and the associated risks.

Of these kinds of concentrations of people, without masks or social distancing, in re: COVID?

No analogy is needed, particularly anything that uses AK47 and bullets. That is silly.

No, it is not, because it is analogous in the relevant sense, as I have been explained. The method of killing is not relevant.

That said, my points without the AK analogy stands on its own, as explained.

But there is no reply on your part, either.

I can’t and won’t address such nonsense as AK47 etc.

I already explained why it is not nonsense, but that aside, look at the context of this part of the exchange:

Me (bold added): As I explained, the analogy is not even needed (though it was apt as explained above). I gave the arguments independently of it. But there is no reply on your part, either.

You: I can’t and won’t address such nonsense as AK47 etc.
​

I was telling you that there was no reply on your part to the arguments that I gave independently of the AK analogy, and you reply that you "can’t and won’t address such nonsense as AK47 etc".

 

[TSwizzle]

Rather, I used this as an analogy,

Your analogy just doesn’t work. It’s just dumb. I’m not interested in analogies, I’m only interested in reality.

 

[bilby]

Rather, I used this as an analogy,

Your analogy just doesn’t work. It’s just dumb. I’m not interested in analogies, I’m only interested in reality.

Nah, you're only interested in pissing off people you don't like. Any interest in reality is a very distant second to that priority. Shit, you don't even care if you yourself are suffering, as long as people you don't like are unhappy.

 

[barbos]

What's up with his nose?

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Rather, I used this as an analogy,

Your analogy just doesn’t work. It’s just dumb. I’m not interested in analogies, I’m only interested in reality.

Again, you are mistaken in the claim that the analogy is dumb for the reasons I have been explained, though it is true that it does not work on you. However, as I have pointed out, I made an argument that is completely independent of the analogy. You did not reply to it.

 

[southernhybrid]

Some people seem to have a very twisted definition of freedom. They define it as having the freedom to defy common decency. Freedom during a pandemic should be about having the freedom not to be breathed on by somebody who refuses to follow basic public health rules, like wearing a mask properly, remaining at least 6 feet apart from others, so that we all have the freedom to carry out the things that are necessary in order to survive. We do these things so that we all have the freedom to be protected from a potentially serious or deadly viral infection.

This should never have been political. It's only about having common decency in regards to your fellow citizens. We can disagree about politics without putting each other's health in danger. But, unfortunately, there are too many ignorant, disrespectful people in our country to be able to accomplish a mutual goal of protecting each other during a serious, potentially deadly pandemic, that would probably be dwindling down quickly if it weren't for the selfish, irrational behavior of some.

And now, we have a good percentage of conspiracy theorists who are refusing to be vaccinated, again because FREEDOM. You can't make me get a vaccine that will prevent me from becoming infected with a virus that might make me very sick, or even kill me! Fuck you. You can't take away my freedom to be an asshole! And, some of the idiots on Fox fake news are even pretending that the vaccine is worse than the disease. How did the dumbing down of America happen so quickly! /rhetorical question

 

[crazyfingers]

This should never have been political. It's only about having common decency in regards to your fellow citizens. We can disagree about politics without putting each other's health in danger. But, unfortunately, there are too many ignorant, disrespectful people in our country to be able to accomplish a mutual goal of protecting each other during a serious, potentially deadly pandemic, that would probably be dwindling down quickly if it weren't for the selfish, irrational behavior of some.

She took flack for it but we all knew that Clinton was right about the deplorables.

 

[TomC]

One can add it is also analogous in that the probable victims are not intended victims, and further, the participants do not believe they're creating significant risks for other people.

I try to stick to the drunk driver analogy. I just think it's more apt and understandable.

I would have little trouble with this event if all the participants who hadn't been vaccinated were required to quarantine afterwards for two weeks. It's sort of like having the freedom to get drunk, and also the freedom to drive, but not the freedom to impinge on other people's freedoms by doing both at the same time.
Tom

 

[TSwizzle]

Rather, I used this as an analogy,

Your analogy just doesn’t work. It’s just dumb. I’m not interested in analogies, I’m only interested in reality.

Again, you are mistaken in the claim that the analogy is dumb for the reasons I have been explained, though it is true that it does not work on you. However, as I have pointed out, I made an argument that is completely independent of the analogy. You did not reply to it.

I’m sure it made sense to you but it’s still dumb and I’m not going to go down an analogy rabbit hole for your entertainment.

The control freaks are wigging out at the sight of maskless bikers. Lol.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The last such event infected enough people it could be detected.

Of course, that's the Daily Fail, now I'm not sure there is a place called Daytona.

There are plenty of sources, with very different ideological preferences. Purely for example:

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/09/us/daytona-beach-bike-week-trnd/index.html

https://www.foxnews.com/us/daytona-beach-prepares-for-tens-of-thousands-of-bikers-to-ride-into-town

https://nypost.com/2021/03/07/motorcycle-rally-expected-to-bring-300k-to-daytona/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/daytona-motorcycle-rally-pandemic-76297419

Yeah, I was just taking a jab at the Daily Fail, not actually suggesting the rally wasn't going to happen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One can add it is also analogous in that the probable victims are not intended victims, and further, the participants do not believe they're creating significant risks for other people.

I try to stick to the drunk driver analogy. I just think it's more apt and understandable.

I would have little trouble with this event if all the participants who hadn't been vaccinated were required to quarantine afterwards for two weeks. It's sort of like having the freedom to get drunk, and also the freedom to drive, but not the freedom to impinge on other people's freedoms by doing both at the same time.
Tom

A good way of putting it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Again, you are mistaken in the claim that the analogy is dumb for the reasons I have been explained, though it is true that it does not work on you. However, as I have pointed out, I made an argument that is completely independent of the analogy. You did not reply to it.

I’m sure it made sense to you but it’s still dumb and I’m not going to go down an analogy rabbit hole for your entertainment.

The control freaks are wigging out at the sight of maskless bikers. Lol.

When you have a group of people moving in a line distancing becomes a very different issue and people don't realize that. When you move into the airspace of the previous person soon after they vacated it it has the same effect as being closer to them unless there is a crosswind.

Personal observation: I know nobody that is cautious about Covid and has been infected.

 

[TomC]

The control freaks are wigging out at the sight of maskless bikers. Lol.

It's only been a few hours since I posted it, so maybe you haven't had time to respond to my post #870. But I will be curious to hear your response, when you get a chance.

And yeah, I'm kinda judgemental about the Deplorables who've been wigging out for the last year or so because a huge problem appeared and their president handled it so badly. If Trump had hammered the threat of C19 as hard as he hammered the threat of job seeking Mexicans we'd all be in way better condition.
Tom

 

[crazyfingers]

I had to go to the grocery today. Our pharmacy is inside and had to get meds.

Usually people are following the rules but today I saw an employee wearing a mask with a vent. I complained to the manager. Way back I had complained to the same manager when an employee was using a vent mask and explained that vent masks are not safe. At the time Massachusetts government had not yet gotten the message that vent masks are not safe.

Since then Massachusetts has banned vent masks. I told the manager that. I didn't stick around to see what happened as I don't like to stay in stores any longer than necessary.

 

[TSwizzle]

I was out and about in my neighborhood today. Noticed a few families in the park with kids playing in the equipment. Also noticed a few homeless dotted around. Not many people wearing masks these days.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

Again, you are mistaken in the claim that the analogy is dumb for the reasons I have been explained, though it is true that it does not work on you. However, as I have pointed out, I made an argument that is completely independent of the analogy. You did not reply to it.

I’m sure it made sense to you but it’s still dumb and I’m not going to go down an analogy rabbit hole for your entertainment.

The control freaks are wigging out at the sight of maskless bikers. Lol.

It's not dumb, but again you reply "and I’m not going to go down an analogy rabbit hole for your entertainment. ", when I keep pointing out that I made an argument that is completely independent of the analogy, and you did not reply to it.

Let me try again: these people engage in a behavior that very probably will cause serious harm and death to third parties in an indiscriminate manner (i.e., not that they target serial killers or something). They do so even though refraining from engaging in such behavior for a few months (until there is herd immunity in the US) would have an extremely low cost. Even with masks, they shouldn't do that, with no social distancing and all of that. The lack of masks makes it more unethical, though.

And none of the above uses any analogies.

 

[TSwizzle]

It's not dumb, but again you reply "and I’m not going to go down an analogy rabbit hole for your entertainment. ", when I keep pointing out that I made an argument that is completely independent of the analogy, and you did not reply to it.

Because I never read it. If I see a tortured analogy I just skip right past it.

Let me try again: these people engage in a behavior that very probably will cause serious harm and death to third parties in an indiscriminate manner (i.e., not that they target serial killers or something). They do so even though refraining from engaging in such behavior for a few months (until there is herd immunity in the US) would have an extremely low cost. Even with masks, they shouldn't do that, with no social distancing and all of that. The lack of masks makes it more unethical, though. [/quite]

Maybe, possibly, perhaps, could etc. There is a risk, it’s a very small risk. It’s up to them, don’t you worry about it. Stop with the finger wagging, scolding and shaming.

QUOTE=Angra Mainyu;883042]And none of the above uses any analogies.

Excellent.

Just back from the supermarket. One young girl was getting served at the deli counter and wasn’t wearing a mask. Nobody said anything and she paid for her purchase and left without incident. We are getting back to normal. Also two AMC movie theaters are opening up in LA county and as of Monday indoor dining will be allowed at 25% capacity.

 

[bilby]

It's not dumb, but again you reply "and I’m not going to go down an analogy rabbit hole for your entertainment. ", when I keep pointing out that I made an argument that is completely independent of the analogy, and you did not reply to it.

Because I never read it. If I see a tortured analogy I just skip right past it.

Let me try again: these people engage in a behavior that very probably will cause serious harm and death to third parties in an indiscriminate manner (i.e., not that they target serial killers or something). They do so even though refraining from engaging in such behavior for a few months (until there is herd immunity in the US) would have an extremely low cost. Even with masks, they shouldn't do that, with no social distancing and all of that. The lack of masks makes it more unethical, though. [/quite]

Maybe, possibly, perhaps, could etc. There is a risk, it’s a very small risk. It’s up to them, don’t you worry about it. Stop with the finger wagging, scolding and shaming.

QUOTE=Angra Mainyu;883042]And none of the above uses any analogies.

Excellent.

Just back from the supermarket. One young girl was getting served at the deli counter and wasn’t wearing a mask. Nobody said anything and she paid for her purchase and left without incident. We are getting back to normal. Also two AMC movie theaters are opening up in LA county and as of Monday indoor dining will be allowed at 25% capacity.

If two hundred Californians a day had been dying of a new disease two years ago, there would have been horror and disbelief at the disaster that was befalling the state.

You are absolutely not "getting back to normal", and it's a serious cognitive error to mistake "getting used to the disastrous state of affairs" for "getting back to normal". They are completely different things.

My state was pretty much back to normal last week, after just six deaths (not per day, or per week; Six in total since Covid began, all of them about a year ago), and 59 days with no new cases other than in quarantined arrivals from foreign countries.

Then a doctor who works with quarantined patients tested positive on Friday. That one single case has sparked a massive contact tracing and testing response; The next few days will show whether anyone else has been infected.

This huge response to a single case, as part of a nationwide zero tolerance policy to allowing infected people to expose themselves to others, is the reason why we have a booming economy and few restrictions (other than during an outbreak).

America could have been here too, if their president hadn't been a complete moron.