Covid-19 miscellany

[DrZoidberg]

Even if the hospitals get overwhelmed mortality will be low. A lot of people will show up with difficulty breathing but who are not in a life threatening situation. It's more annoying than dangerous. That's what can overwhelm the hospitals.

They give them valium and sometimes oxygen

9.7 deaths a day in the UK is vastly lower than a few months ago; But it's still horrific.

Humans have a very worrying ability to get used to things that really shouldn't be considered acceptable.

Yeah, "horrific"

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...rome..69i57.9831j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

How about some perspective here?

If you have a problem with 10 dying a day from Covid-19, just wait until you learn how dangerous it is to cross the road. The current UK deaths from Covid-19 is comparable to the amount of UK deaths who die a normal year from flying.

Humans have a very worrying lack of ability to calculate risk. Anything dangerous that's invisible to the naked eye that sneaks up on you sends humans into hysterics, GMO's, artificial, food additives, nuclear radiation, communism, the devil etc. Covid-19 is a prime candidate for turning humanity retarded for the same reason.

Just for the record. While I think Covid-19 avoidance neurotics are annoying, I hate anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers. I think both are a scurge on humanity. The Covid neurotics are the lesser or two evils.

 

[bilby]

Even if the hospitals get overwhelmed mortality will be low. A lot of people will show up with difficulty breathing but who are not in a life threatening situation. It's more annoying than dangerous. That's what can overwhelm the hospitals.

They give them valium and sometimes oxygen

9.7 deaths a day in the UK is vastly lower than a few months ago; But it's still horrific.

Humans have a very worrying ability to get used to things that really shouldn't be considered acceptable.

Yeah, "horrific"

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...rome..69i57.9831j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

How about some perspective here?

If you have a problem with 10 dying a day from Covid-19, just wait until you learn how dangerous it is to cross the road. The current UK deaths from Covid-19 is comparable to the amount of UK deaths who die a normal year from flying.

Humans have a very worrying lack of ability to calculate risk. Anything dangerous that's invisible to the naked eye that sneaks up on you sends humans into hysterics, GMO's, artificial, food additives, nuclear radiation, communism, the devil etc. Covid-19 is a prime candidate for turning humanity retarded for the same reason.

Just for the record. While I think Covid-19 avoidance neurotics are annoying, I hate anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers. I think both are a scurge on humanity. The Covid neurotics are the lesser or two evils.

That argument might fly if Covid were inevitable or unavoidable; Or if the cost of eliminating it were higher than the cost of tolerating it, or of keeping it at tolerable levels.

But the reality is that the harm to economic activity and the psychological harm to people in lockdown has been FAR greater in countries that DIDN'T make a decent effort to prevent Covid than in those (like Australia and New Zealand) that did.

The choice isn't two years of lockdown or Covid; it's two years of lockdown AND Covid, or two months of serious no-fucking-about lockdown and NO Covid.

99% of all Covid deaths are due to half arsed measures that seem to be intended to negotiate with the virus and meet it half way.

Fucking insanity.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Yeah, "horrific"

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...rome..69i57.9831j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

How about some perspective here?

If you have a problem with 10 dying a day from Covid-19, just wait until you learn how dangerous it is to cross the road. The current UK deaths from Covid-19 is comparable to the amount of UK deaths who die a normal year from flying.

Humans have a very worrying lack of ability to calculate risk. Anything dangerous that's invisible to the naked eye that sneaks up on you sends humans into hysterics, GMO's, artificial, food additives, nuclear radiation, communism, the devil etc. Covid-19 is a prime candidate for turning humanity retarded for the same reason.

Just for the record. While I think Covid-19 avoidance neurotics are annoying, I hate anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers. I think both are a scurge on humanity. The Covid neurotics are the lesser or two evils.

That argument might fly if Covid were inevitable or unavoidable; Or if the cost of eliminating it were higher than the cost of tolerating it, or of keeping it at tolerable levels.

As you acknowledge, lockdown has a cost. We're social animals. We don't handle long term isolation well. The pay off has to be high to tolerate lockdown.

How many deaths are acceptable? Whatever the number I think it's quite a bit above 10 per day for the UK.

But the reality is that the harm to economic activity and the psychological harm to people in lockdown has been FAR greater in countries that DIDN'T make a decent effort to prevent Covid than in those (like Australia and New Zealand) that did.

The choice isn't two years of lockdown or Covid; it's two years of lockdown AND Covid, or two months of serious no-fucking-about lockdown and NO Covid.

99% of all Covid deaths are due to half arsed measures that seem to be intended to negotiate with the virus and meet it half way.

Fucking insanity.

It's a false dichotomy. Lockdown was a good idea, earlier. The UK locked down too late and paid the price for it. But now it's not worth it IMHO. The UK can't make up for earlier slow response to Covid by prolonging lockdown beyond the time it serves a meaningful purpose. That's just making the damage of the earlier slow response worse.

 

[TSwizzle]

Cuomo declares pandemic over and opens up New York;

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has lifted all remaining COVID restrictions and declared the pandemic over in New York after vaccinations reached 70 percent on Tuesday.

DailyMail

About time.

 

[bilby]

As you acknowledge, lockdown has a cost. We're social animals. We don't handle long term isolation well. The pay off has to be high to tolerate lockdown.

How many deaths are acceptable? Whatever the number I think it's quite a bit above 10 per day for the UK.

But the reality is that the harm to economic activity and the psychological harm to people in lockdown has been FAR greater in countries that DIDN'T make a decent effort to prevent Covid than in those (like Australia and New Zealand) that did.

The choice isn't two years of lockdown or Covid; it's two years of lockdown AND Covid, or two months of serious no-fucking-about lockdown and NO Covid.

99% of all Covid deaths are due to half arsed measures that seem to be intended to negotiate with the virus and meet it half way.

Fucking insanity.

It's a false dichotomy. Lockdown was a good idea, earlier. The UK locked down too late and paid the price for it. But now it's not worth it IMHO. The UK can't make up for earlier slow response to Covid by prolonging lockdown beyond the time it serves a meaningful purpose. That's just making the damage of the earlier slow response worse.

The damage from lag - not starting soon enough - isn't recoverable, but it's not particularly large.

The real damage is from insufficient scope - not locking down hard enough - and that's easily fixed by a short hard lockdown.

The virus cannot move on its own. People need to carry it. So you can eliminate it (at ANY stage) with a really harsh lockdown, strictly enforced, for a couple of months. You cannot fix it with a half arsed nearly lockdown, which just has the harmful impact of a real lockdown without the benefit of stopping the disease.

The mistake made by the UK (and almost every other country) is having too many exceptions and allowances during their lockdowns.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As you acknowledge, lockdown has a cost. We're social animals. We don't handle long term isolation well. The pay off has to be high to tolerate lockdown.

How many deaths are acceptable? Whatever the number I think it's quite a bit above 10 per day for the UK.

But the reality is that the harm to economic activity and the psychological harm to people in lockdown has been FAR greater in countries that DIDN'T make a decent effort to prevent Covid than in those (like Australia and New Zealand) that did.

The choice isn't two years of lockdown or Covid; it's two years of lockdown AND Covid, or two months of serious no-fucking-about lockdown and NO Covid.

99% of all Covid deaths are due to half arsed measures that seem to be intended to negotiate with the virus and meet it half way.

Fucking insanity.

It's a false dichotomy. Lockdown was a good idea, earlier. The UK locked down too late and paid the price for it. But now it's not worth it IMHO. The UK can't make up for earlier slow response to Covid by prolonging lockdown beyond the time it serves a meaningful purpose. That's just making the damage of the earlier slow response worse.

There was never a LOCKDOWN in the Western Hemisphere. The US? What, 75% of businesses seemed to be "essential". I remember having my wife and I slowly picking up extra stuff in the weeks leading up to the soft shutdown, because I thought we were headed to a full out lockdown, because viruses love Venn Diagrams.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are saying that at this point there will no longer be any COVID deaths in UK?
That’s remarkable.

No more long haulers either?

And all because 44% are vaccinated?

Great news. I guess we’ll know by the end of the week if it’s bullshit.

No, Covid right now is spiking in the UK. Because Brits have started to go to the pub and socialise like normal. But the at risks are all vaccinated. The risk of dying of Covid in the UK is now very low. I find it hard to justify a lockdown with limited gains.

They dropped the restrictions here on June 1. Our rolling average for new cases in this county is as bad as any state in the US. (I suspect there are some counties that are worse but I didn't check other states at the county level.) That does not make the risks of dying very low.

And we still don't have a good picture on the damage it causes.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That argument might fly if Covid were inevitable or unavoidable; Or if the cost of eliminating it were higher than the cost of tolerating it, or of keeping it at tolerable levels.

But the reality is that the harm to economic activity and the psychological harm to people in lockdown has been FAR greater in countries that DIDN'T make a decent effort to prevent Covid than in those (like Australia and New Zealand) that did.

The choice isn't two years of lockdown or Covid; it's two years of lockdown AND Covid, or two months of serious no-fucking-about lockdown and NO Covid.

99% of all Covid deaths are due to half arsed measures that seem to be intended to negotiate with the virus and meet it half way.

Fucking insanity.

This. The only thing half-assed lockdown did is kept from crashing the healthcare system.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Cuomo declares pandemic over and opens up New York;

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has lifted all remaining COVID restrictions and declared the pandemic over in New York after vaccinations reached 70 percent on Tuesday.

DailyMail

About time.

70% won't do it against the Delta variant.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Cuomo declares pandemic over and opens up New York;

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has lifted all remaining COVID restrictions and declared the pandemic over in New York after vaccinations reached 70 percent on Tuesday.

DailyMail

About time.

70% won't do it against the Delta variant.

If it were only 2-dosers comprising the 70% and the vaccinations were all Pfizer, they might be close. But it's 70% of adults have at least 1 dose. I don't see why they didn't wait 3 weeks for them to be at 2 doses. 1 dose is 30% effective and that seems like too much spread..

 

[repoman]

70% won't do it against the Delta variant.

If it were only 2-dosers comprising the 70% and the vaccinations were all Pfizer, they might be close. But it's 70% of adults have at least 1 dose. I don't see why they didn't wait 3 weeks for them to be at 2 doses. 1 dose is 30% effective and that seems like too much spread..

I see that it is 80% effective from a 20 second search as it seemed from my memory from a couple months ago.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-of-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-vaccines-was-80percent-effective.html

What is up with the Chicken Littles on this thread?

Yeah, covid can kill you DEAD and I got my shots, but holy shit get a grip!

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Delta variant statistics were not available 2 months ago.

The Pfizer (and other mRNA) vaccines are only 33% effective at 1 dose. See Page 51 of this report:

 

[TSwizzle]

Restrictions lifted in California. Huge crowds at Disneyland;

A massive line to get into Disneyland wound like a human snake through an unused transportation center and stretched up and down Harbor Boulevard as pandemic rules came to an end and out-of-state visitors jammed into the Anaheim theme park.

The first day without pandemic restrictions at Disneyland brought with it massive lines, huge crowds, no masks and an end to physical distancing on a hot and sweaty day that crept close to triple digits.

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/06/...huge-crowds-massive-lines-no-masks-hot-temps/

And capacity crowd at Dodger Stadium tonight. Not many masks being worn either. Mary Hart is behind home plate sans mask. Pujols is playing first base tonight the scamp that he is.

 

[DrZoidberg]

70% won't do it against the Delta variant.

If it were only 2-dosers comprising the 70% and the vaccinations were all Pfizer, they might be close. But it's 70% of adults have at least 1 dose. I don't see why they didn't wait 3 weeks for them to be at 2 doses. 1 dose is 30% effective and that seems like too much spread..

I see that it is 80% effective from a 20 second search as it seemed from my memory from a couple months ago.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-of-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-vaccines-was-80percent-effective.html

What is up with the Chicken Littles on this thread?

Yeah, covid can kill you DEAD and I got my shots, but holy shit get a grip!

The effectiveness is based on the trials with a limited number of people. There is a lot of random in those numbers. The effectiveness percentages don't mean what people think they mean. For all we know J&J could be more effective than Pfizer.

For example, in the J & J trial they did PCR tests on all participants continually. In the Pfizer and Moderna tria they only tested those with symptoms. As we all know, a lot of those sick with Covid-19 are asymptomatic

 

[Loren Pechtel]

70% won't do it against the Delta variant.

If it were only 2-dosers comprising the 70% and the vaccinations were all Pfizer, they might be close. But it's 70% of adults have at least 1 dose. I don't see why they didn't wait 3 weeks for them to be at 2 doses. 1 dose is 30% effective and that seems like too much spread..

I see that it is 80% effective from a 20 second search as it seemed from my memory from a couple months ago.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/29/cdc-study-shows-single-dose-of-pfizer-or-moderna-covid-vaccines-was-80percent-effective.html

What is up with the Chicken Littles on this thread?

Yeah, covid can kill you DEAD and I got my shots, but holy shit get a grip!

The question is how many need to be vaccinated for herd immunity.

If it's only 80% effective against the Delta variant it's not going to do it even at a 100% vaccination rate.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Delta variant statistics were not available 2 months ago.

The Pfizer (and other mRNA) vaccines are only 33% effective at 1 dose. See Page 51 of this report:
View attachment 34091

I guess we need a booster against Delta then. The current vaccine can't stop it.

 

[TSwizzle]

Jeezus christ on a pogo stick what the actual fuck ?

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/CharlieEmmaUK/status/1405418444753940484[/TWEET]

Corden really is a weapons grade knob end.

 

[untermensche]

If it's only 80% effective against the Delta variant it's not going to do it even at a 100% vaccination rate.

What?

80% effective means you have an 80% chance of not getting an infection if you are exposed.

Of the small percentage of people who are exposed only 20% will have a chance of being infected.

If 10% of people vaccinated are exposed that means that only 2% of the people vaccinated have a chance to develop an infection.

Less than that will actually develop an infection due to natural immunity in some people.

 

[thebeave]

Restrictions lifted in California. Huge crowds at Disneyland;

A massive line to get into Disneyland wound like a human snake through an unused transportation center and stretched up and down Harbor Boulevard as pandemic rules came to an end and out-of-state visitors jammed into the Anaheim theme park.

The first day without pandemic restrictions at Disneyland brought with it massive lines, huge crowds, no masks and an end to physical distancing on a hot and sweaty day that crept close to triple digits.

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/06/...huge-crowds-massive-lines-no-masks-hot-temps/

And capacity crowd at Dodger Stadium tonight. Not many masks being worn either. Mary Hart is behind home plate sans mask. Pujols is playing first base tonight the scamp that he is.

It seems to be different here in Northern California....people apparently have not got the memo. I went into Home Depot and Lowe's on Tuesday and Wednesday expecting to see maskless people high-fiving each other, but every single employee and customer had a mask on still, like nothing had changed. I saw two masked women taking their kids (also masked) for a walk OUTSIDE on a quiet surburban street. Went to El Pollo Loco yesterday evening and everyone was still wearing masks, though a maskless couple did come in later. I don't know what the fuck is going on. Severe TDS still?

 

[barbos]

If it's only 80% effective against the Delta variant it's not going to do it even at a 100% vaccination rate.

What?

80% effective means you have an 80% chance of not getting an infection if you are exposed.

Of the small percentage of people who are exposed only 20% will have a chance of being infected.

If 10% of people vaccinated are exposed that means that only 2% of the people vaccinated have a chance to develop an infection.

Less than that will actually develop an infection due to natural immunity in some people.

The question at what vaccination rate it kills the spread. It's possible to have increase in infections when 100% are vaccinated.
Of course vaccination is not the only thing which decreases the spread. Masks reduce spread too.