Dem Post Mortem

[Derec]

I’d like to see the genocide in Palestine stopped.

What genocide? Other than the attempted genocide by Hamas et al.

The Muslims in Michigan wouldn’t vote for Harris because she wouldn’t take a hard line against Palestine.

Isn't a "hard line against Palestine" what Netanyahu is taking? Did you mean "against Israel"?

I think that was a dumb stance given the alternative.

It is. As are all "I won't vote for X because they are not sufficiently ideologically pure" stances.

 

[Derec]

Not only will Palestinians feel the brunt, but so will nearly everyone. So don't tell me that criticizing a group that helped put Trump in office is "bringing out the knives", when the Muslims in Michigan voted for Trump by 70%. (If it's true)

I have not seen any exit polls breaking it down for Muslims. This page has religion breakdown, but Muslims are included with "other", which is 10% and thus Muslims (1% of population) are a small fraction of even that.

But I would think that a lot of Muslims/Arabs mad at Biden/Harris would just stay home, which is not captured in exit polls anyway. Many others who voted for Biden stayed home as well - it is not that Trump gained votes, but that Harris lost a lot of Biden voters.

That said, Trump did best Harris in the majority Muslim city of Dearborn. So there's that.
Trump wins Dearborn, Dearborn Heights amid fury over Gaza, Lebanon wars

Trump won Dearborn, the nation’s largest Arab-majority city, 42.5%-36% over Democratic Vice President Kamala Harris, or a margin of more than 6 percentage points. Green Party nominee Jill Stein, who selected a Muslim American running mate, pulled over 18% of the vote in Dearborn, according to the city's unofficial results.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I mean, WTF? Does she not even know that pork is a big no-no in Islam? Or is she deliberately trying to antagonize him? What is going on here?

I can’t even imagine what would happen if Trump said something nearly as silly as this. Surely he would have lost the election.

Whataboutism is whining.

Thanks for not addressing the content

 

[bilby]

Scapegoat, scapegoat, scapegoat. What minority is small enough and despised anough to safely deflect guilt for the loss of a national election onto? Someone who stayed home is more guilty than someone who actively voted in a dictator, apparently.

Well, yeah as a matter of fact. Trump's vote turnout was less than his vote in 2020. Elections are always about turnout. Granted she didn't inspire people. But seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people who sit out elections? They are indeed fucked up people.

You really can't see what's wrong with accepting white bigotry as a given while screaming your hatred toward a refugee people who've been subjected to genocide?

What are you talking about? I’m talking about people who stayed home and did not vote. I thought that was your comment. If I misunderstood, my apologies. But people who stayed home and failed to vote . . Well there’s a special place in hell for those bastards.

I’ve been perusing the vote totals (not just percentages) on the CNN “magic wall” app and, with the caveat that not all results for 2024 are in yet, it appears that in many if not most blue areas Trump got same or similar number of votes as in 2020 and Harris got substantially fewer votes than Biden did in 2020. Turnout for Dems was down everywhere.

Yup. A sizable number of Democrats won't vote for a woman for President.

They just won't.

 

[Derec]

I've always tried to support Israel, the October attack was horrific and they have every right to defend themselves. But no more. fuck Israel - or at least as long as Netanyahu is in power. I'd love to see dems grow a pair of balls over Israel.

How do you propose Israel defend itself against an enemy that hides in civilian areas without there being significant civilian casualties?

That's the real reason they lost. They're actually too conservative. I wonder if they will go the way of the Liberal Party in England? Replaced by the Greens or a new Social Democrats Party? People want a real alternative and the dems just don't really present one.

The Liberal Party was never one of the major parties I don't think. That they are a factor at all is a bit of an aberration of the Duverger's Law.
I do not think Dems are too conservative. They moved to the left a lot in the last 10 years. That's why Kamala was burdened with having to walk back positions she took in 2019 - like the one about banning fracking.

 

[Derec]

Scapegoat, scapegoat, scapegoat. What minority is small enough and despised anough to safely deflect guilt for the loss of a national election onto? Someone who stayed home is more guilty than someone who actively voted in a dictator, apparently.

Voting for Trump has 2x the effect of staying at home, but it still has an effect.
Now, if somebody votes for Trump because they believe that's the best choice, that's one thing. But if you vote for Jill Stein or stay at home or even vote for Trump because you want to punish Biden or Harris for not being sufficiently pure, that's quite another matter.

 

[Derec]

You really can't see what's wrong with accepting white bigotry as a given while screaming your hatred toward a refugee people who've been subjected to genocide?

First of all, Muslim or Arab is not synonymous with "refugee people". Second, you have no problem casting aspersions on white people, but do not think it's ok to scrutinize voting choices of minorities.

 

[Derec]

A great opinion piece over on NY Times. I do not think many will want to hear it though, as it offers some tough-to-swallow pills.

I always love taking campaign advice from conservatives. I'm sure they are just trying to be helpful, like when they do it on Morning Joe.

Called it!

 

[Derec]

Calling people names is not a good way to get them to vote for you.

It worked for Trump.

Did he call people whose votes he sought names? No, he blows smoke up their asses.
He does call people names, but not when he is courting their votes.

 

[Derec]

Thank you for voting for Harris. I disagree with you, but I do respect you. I’d bet if we were in the senate together we could reach across the aisle to get shit done.
If you make your way to Bham, let me know.

Thanks. I too think we would get shit done.

 

[Derec]

so, you’re saying it is not possible that the second sentence explains the first?

That assumes that she was a bad candidate because of her race and gender. Not because of her bad judgment or poor campaigning or because she came across as inauthentic.

 

[trillian]

Dems were not attractive with voters as to the future policies.

They:
Gaslit working people's real life economic situation.
Gaslit crime stats. (Kamala even refused to say how she voted on CA prop 36)
Waffled on gender affirmation/surgery stances, especially for minors
Didn't course correct on males in females sports.
Played both sides irt Israel/Iran proxies.
Didn't force Joe out in spring of 2023.
Let Kamala take the mantle and run when she is woefully incapable for the role.

If they had not ousted Tulsi, I bet she could have been elected right now. Michelle,Obama would have won for sure. It wasn't a woman bias. It was the choice to put a 3rd string player on the ballot.

Everyone democrats ousted from the party for not towing the line, became their downfall in the end. Cancel culture eats itself.

 

[Ford]

If they had not ousted Tulsi, I bet she could have been elected right now.

It's been a long day, and I needed a laugh.

 

[Shadowy Man]

so, you’re saying it is not possible that the second sentence explains the first?

That assumes that she was a bad candidate because of her race and gender. Not because of her bad judgment or poor campaigning or because she came across as inauthentic.

I’m not assuming it but I am contemplating it as it could be true.

Trump has bad judgment, poor campaigning and is inauthentic yet he still won.

 

[ZiprHead]

How do you propose Israel defend itself against an enemy that hides in civilian areas without there being significant civilian casualties?

You send ground troops in to route out HAMAS instead of bombing and destroying an entire city block full of people to get a few HAMAS members.

 

[Politesse]

You really can't see what's wrong with accepting white bigotry as a given while screaming your hatred toward a refugee people who've been subjected to genocide?

First of all, Muslim or Arab is not synonymous with "refugee people". Second, you have no problem casting aspersions on white people, but do not think it's ok to scrutinize voting choices of minorities.

What "aspersion" are you talking about?

 

[ideologyhunter]

How do you propose Israel defend itself against an enemy that hides in civilian areas without there being significant civilian casualties?

You send ground troops in to route out HAMAS instead of bombing and destroying an entire city block full of people to get a few HAMAS members.

The Gaza Strip is almost exactly the size of Philadelphia, PA (140 sq. mi.) The Palestinian death toll since 10/7/23 is estimated at about 44,000. By contrast, the U.S. lost 58,000 men in 8 years of fighting in Vietnam. So, yes, it is legitimate to ask if there is a better way to fight Hamas. It doesn't make one anti-Israel. Many Israelis have taken to the streets to plead with their government to change tactics. Everyone knows or should know that the Oct. 7 attack was unbelievably brutal -- 1200 people slaughtered, many rapes, the hostages taken. That shouldn't mean that humanitarian concerns are taken off the table.

 

[steve_bank]

Biden and Harris were tone deaf on the economy and the border.

Harris had did not cone across as having a clear economic plan. Inflation is down and jobs are credm but peole are having a hard time paying bills.

Harris kept invoking sympathy for illegals while people were fed up having to deal with illegals, even in progressive Seattle.

As pundits are saying people voted based on their pocketbooks, not who they liked.

It's not that she was tone deaf on the economy and the border, it's that she never fought for the policies that have been in place for the last four years.

How bad is the fucking economy? It's not. It's fucking great and has been fucking great. Inflation is up, but so are wages so who gives a shit. That's what she should have said. She never fought. She tried to answer their questions. She should have called them morons for questioning the economy.

And the Border. What's fucking wrong with the border? How exactly is it impacting the average American that people want to come here. You know why people are coming, because Biden and Harris are doing a great job running the country. We need immigrants you fucking morons! The biggest economic problem we have is demographic aging and that is due to a lack of workers - especially in many low wage shit jobs. We need immigrants to come and pay into social security so we can continue the program. But she never said anything like that she should have defended herself instead of tried to make excuses. She should have called Brett Baier and donald trump idiots to their face. She should have done it in the debate. Instead she just gave smirks. It didn't work.

We need immigrants, we always have. It is thee manner in which they come. The idea tjhat anyone can cross thebo0rde4 at any time and live here is insane.

In Seattle we have legals living on the streets. A group complained about having to live in tents in a church parking lot.

They are not planned for and there is no money for them.

We need an immigration system that matches immigrants with needs. It is not a welfare system for the world.

I was born in 1951 in NYC and grew up in Stamford Ct outside NYC. I grew up with and went to school with immigrant kids.

Ellis Island was an icon. Immigrants were screened for disease.

In the economy then immigrants with no skills and little English could actually support a family.

That economy is long gone.


Biden was tone def on immigration and the issues. When Texas and Florida bussed illegals to NYC the city quickly complained they wee not equipped to deal with the numbers.

Biden talks as if we are in the 50s.

In Seattle we have a problem housing the homeless that are from here without an unending flow of legals.

By law emergency rooms are required to treat all comers. ERs are used as a doctor's office and hospitals have no way to pay for it. Schools are not equipped to deal with large numbers of kids with differing languages.to pay for illegals.

It is a fucking mess.

 

[ideologyhunter]

You could also mention the 3 MILLION backlogged immigration court cases. And Congress failing to act to fund more border enforcement and personnel and yes, court personnel, which Biden repeatedly asked for. And of course Trump killing the border bill, in which Biden was willing to cave to most GOP demands. Who is it that wanted the border to remain in chaos?

 

[Tigers!]

How do you propose Israel defend itself against an enemy that hides in civilian areas without there being significant civilian casualties?

You send ground troops in to route out HAMAS instead of bombing and destroying an entire city block full of people to get a few HAMAS members.

And how many times have posters on these fora complained, shrieked about Israeli troops invading Gaza. Terrorising civilians and destroying buildings.
What can Israel do that you would not complain about?