Dem Post Mortem

[Politesse]

And that would indeed have pissed off a lot of Americans. There are plenty of US citizens who HATE seeing a man publically disparaged by a woman, for any reason.

If anything, it's the opposite. For many years, male politicians going against a female one have been told that they have to pull punches because the public would not take kindly to a man being too aggressive against a woman.
For example, take this article:
Why It’s So Hard for Men to Debate Women

Of all the playground rules that still apply to presidential politics, “don’t hit girls” is probably the trickiest. Especially in debates, where “hitting” your rival (not literally, of course) is the whole point.
That’s why so many male candidates have floundered when they found themselves going man-to-man with a female opponent. Most voters don’t like to see women candidates get attacked or patronized by men. And since debates are often the only moments where candidates share the same physical space, the gender dynamics can be more obvious—and more precarious.
[...]
One-liners can go sour. When Clinton ran for the Democratic nomination in 2007, and all the primary candidates were asked to say one nice thing and one critical thing about the candidate standing next to them. Sen. John Edwards went with “Um, I’m not sure about that coat,” drawing attention to Clinton’s pink jacket in a row of dark suits. The moment was clearly intended as a joke, but the voters thought it sounded sexist. Barack Obama fell into the same trap later in that primary, when Clinton was asked about why voters don’t seem to like her. “You’re likable enough, Hillary,” he interjected. It sounded condescending and dismissive, and made voters like her more.

Indeed it was during her campaign against Obama, after the NH debate, that Hillary broke out in tears because he was too mean to her.

I don't believe male candidates should hit other male cadidates, either.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Wherever Republicans and the media take the conversation, the Democrats follow, taking every piece of bait.

That's why I believe they should have stopped pulling punches and attacked Rump head-on, telling it like it is, calling her opponent what he is. Even Kami knew he couldn't handle that., but she had to take the high road. Someone convinced her that overpowering a 310-lb lump of ugly fat would be unseemly for a lady. Or something like that.

And that would indeed have pissed off a lot of Americans. There are plenty of US citizens who HATE seeing a man embarrassed by a woman, for any reason. But that's all the more reason why we cannot allow these people to steer the ship. We know exactly what kind of society they'll build if they are in charge, and it isn't tolerable to any thinking person with a conscience.

I don’t think it’s hypothetical any more. We had our chance.
It would have REALLY pissed off millions of Trumpsucking dullards, for Trump to have been righteously shamed in public. But the thing that would truly be pissing them off, would have been showing their emperor to be naked. And that nakedness would have been the truth, and it would have prevailed. Perhaps not in this election cycle, but it would have hastened the backswing of the pendulum that currently holds us on the threshold of irreversible fascism.

Just to nitpick - How can there be an backswing on the pendulum if irreversible fascism occurs?

This is why I'm not convinced by the whole "let Trump supporters suffer the consequences, they'll realize they were wrong!" argument (it also doesn't take into account the damage that'll be done to the education system, which will result in millions of more idiots), and if the Polio vaccine gets revoked from approval, or banned, millions of dead or paralyzed kids. But I do like the idea of them suffering consequences regardless.

 

[Elixir]

Wherever Republicans and the media take the conversation, the Democrats follow, taking every piece of bait.

That's why I believe they should have stopped pulling punches and attacked Rump head-on, telling it like it is, calling her opponent what he is. Even Kami knew he couldn't handle that., but she had to take the high road. Someone convinced her that overpowering a 310-lb lump of ugly fat would be unseemly for a lady. Or something like that.

And that would indeed have pissed off a lot of Americans. There are plenty of US citizens who HATE seeing a man embarrassed by a woman, for any reason. But that's all the more reason why we cannot allow these people to steer the ship. We know exactly what kind of society they'll build if they are in charge, and it isn't tolerable to any thinking person with a conscience.

I don’t think it’s hypothetical any more. We had our chance.
It would have REALLY pissed off millions of Trumpsucking dullards, for Trump to have been righteously shamed in public. But the thing that would truly be pissing them off, would have been showing their emperor to be naked. And that nakedness would have been the truth, and it would have prevailed. Perhaps not in this election cycle, but it would have hastened the backswing of the pendulum that currently holds us on the threshold of irreversible fascism.

Just to nitpick - How can there be an backswing on the pendulum if irreversible fascism occurs?

This is why I'm not convinced by the whole "let Trump supporters suffer the consequences, they'll realize they were wrong!" argument (it also doesn't take into account the damage that'll be done to the education system, which will result in millions of more idiots), and if the Polio vaccine gets revoked from approval, or banned, millions of dead or paralyzed kids. But I do like the idea of them suffering consequences regardless.

Yup. We’re headed into a societal cul de sac and there may be no getting out.
Tigers!’ question is the point. There will be no “backswing” of the pendulum if the Trump junta succeeds in locking that pendulum in the far right position, by force.
A nation of stupids is all we will be, laboring under the whims of a few billionaires with no social mobility to aspire to.
Like Russia. EXACTLY like Russia. Putin has written the playbook for Trump and his greedy enablers have read it and made it their Gospel. And the sheeples who are now “the electorate” are all in favor of it because every stupid one of them thinks they are in line to be an oligarch.
The Shithole of Trumpistan is to be a glorious thing for its billionaires.

 

[SLD]

The problem with locking us in the cul de sac by force is that it can provoke a violent counter reaction. Indeed it ought to.

My one hope is that the repubs prove themselves so utterly incompetent that they destroy themselves. The last Congress couldn’t get shit done. Maybe the next one won’t either.

 

[Elixir]

My one hope is that the repubs prove themselves so utterly incompetent that they destroy themselves.

+1
I am less sanguine about that than I was last time. Cheato has learned where to place pros and how to browbeat everyone else into submission. So IMHO, we are truly fucked.

 

[Politesse]

It's never the people who need to learn from their mistakes who actually do when the shit hits the fan. Scientists learned a lot from the Covid pandemic. Doctors learned a lot from the pandemic. Sociologists learned a lot from the pandemic. Even archaeology is having a bit of a boom, I heard recently.

But what did the public learn? Somehow, worse than nothing. We're actually furiously marching backward on vaccines, public sanitation, water and food safety, and nutrition availability.

 

[Emily Lake]

I assure you not many Trump voters would appreciate being called "Yanks", either their great-greats were all on the wrong side of the war, or they wish they were. Fighting and dying by the hundreds of thousands, watching all the great cities of the South burn to the ground, all so their bosses/landlords could keep their household slaves. Is there any nobler or ennobling cause imaginable?

Trump Supporters with they were Democrats????

Unless they are recent immigrants, Trump supporters by and large ARE the descendants of Democrats, those Democrats, and would once have been proud of the label. However, few are on good terms with the Democrats of today, who they see as having sold themselves out, and sold their consituents out, to the "coastal elites", variously imagined as a sort of cabal of university presidents, celebrities, and liberal politicians whose values are antithetical to the American way of life as they understand it.

Yes, all those evil southern Trump supporters living in *checks notes* Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania.

This myth that you're creating for yourself... have you considered introducing some reality into it? You've created this self-soothing narrative where everyone who voted for Trump is an evil racist who wishes slavery were still legal. The only problem is that Dems lost share among every voting cohort except white men. So your feel-good-those-people-are-evil story is effectively painting black, hispanic, and other minority voters as being racist slavery-apologists.

 

[Emily Lake]

Wherever Republicans and the media take the conversation, the Democrats follow, taking every piece of bait.

That's why I believe they should have stopped pulling punches and attacked Rump head-on, telling it like it is, calling her opponent what he is. Even Kami knew he couldn't handle that., but she had to take the high road. Someone convinced her that overpowering a 310-lb lump of ugly fat would be unseemly for a lady. Or something like that.

And that would indeed have pissed off a lot of Americans. There are plenty of US citizens who HATE seeing a man publically disparaged by a woman, for any reason. But that's all the more reason why we cannot allow these people to steer the ship. We know exactly what kind of society they'll build if they are in charge, and it isn't tolerable to any thinking person with a conscience.

Sooo... what, you're going to revoke the right to vote for half the country because they didn't do what you wanted them to do?

 

[Emily Lake]

Money can't buy happiness, so there must be other reasons why so many Americans aren't happy.

I'm going to throw out a crazy thought and say that American unhappiness could be a result of 1) highly polarized political climate that encourages and incentivizes hating your neighbor and breaking off friendships and disowning your family if they vote for "the other guy" and 2) a weirdly persistent narrative that everyone should be happy all the time and that if you're not always in a state of unending bliss there's something wrong with you that needs to be medicated and that any emotional dissatisfaction or struggle is massive trauma that can't possibly be overcome without everyone in your life accommodating your every whim.

 

[Emily Lake]

if the Polio vaccine gets revoked from approval, or banned, millions of dead or paralyzed kids.

Wait, what now? Why would it get revoked or banned? On the other side... why would that matter in the US?

 

[southernhybrid]

Money can't buy happiness, so there must be other reasons why so many Americans aren't happy.

I'm going to throw out a crazy thought and say that American unhappiness could be a result of 1) highly polarized political climate that encourages and incentivizes hating your neighbor and breaking off friendships and disowning your family if they vote for "the other guy" and 2) a weirdly persistent narrative that everyone should be happy all the time and that if you're not always in a state of unending bliss there's something wrong with you that needs to be medicated and that any emotional dissatisfaction or struggle is massive trauma that can't possibly be overcome without everyone in your life accommodating your every whim.

I doubt that, since the US has been rated unhappy for some time and it's only recently that some people have cut out friends due to politics. I have plenty of friendly acquaintances and one close neighbor who voted for Trump. My family all voted for Dems, but I have friends who have family members who voted for the Rs and they are still very close, so I do wonder if that many people have really cut others out of their lives over politics. I'm skeptical.

Btw, I don't think Trump supporters are terrible people at all. I personally know some dear ones. I just think they've been manipulated by a cult leader or they don't understand the man's history, get their fake news from places like Newsmax or are simply low info voters. On the other hand, my wealthy brother in law voted for him for the tax breaks, but after talking-to him a few weeks ago, it was obvious that despite being highly educated, he was a rather low info voter too.

I doubt the happiness thing means one needs to be ecstatic all of the time. It probably means that you are basically content with your life. But clinical depression does usually benefit from some type of treatment. it's a medical condition, but that has nothing to do with Americans not being as happy as people in other countries. I am content, but of course I've gone through very difficult times, but so far have been able to move on. I have friends who are miserable due to clinical depression, financial struggles, the loss of a spouse or just plain loneliness.

My other post wasn't to be taking too seriously, although giving does usually bring one joy. The friend who I've given the most to, would probably give away something that someone else needed more than her. She never complains despite having plenty of difficulty in her life. She's poor, and has some serious health problems, but she has a loving family to help her cope. It makes me happy to give to her.

It just seems to me that Americans would be happier if they were more generous, even if it's just be doing volunteer work. I've done it before and it can be very emotionally rewarding. I'm not saying that's the only thing, but it certainly would help.

Did you know that homelessness increased by 18% this year according to an article I read this morning? I guess if we took better care of our poor, there might be less sadness too.

 

[Politesse]

Wherever Republicans and the media take the conversation, the Democrats follow, taking every piece of bait.

That's why I believe they should have stopped pulling punches and attacked Rump head-on, telling it like it is, calling her opponent what he is. Even Kami knew he couldn't handle that., but she had to take the high road. Someone convinced her that overpowering a 310-lb lump of ugly fat would be unseemly for a lady. Or something like that.

And that would indeed have pissed off a lot of Americans. There are plenty of US citizens who HATE seeing a man publically disparaged by a woman, for any reason. But that's all the more reason why we cannot allow these people to steer the ship. We know exactly what kind of society they'll build if they are in charge, and it isn't tolerable to any thinking person with a conscience.

Sooo... what, you're going to revoke the right to vote for half the country because they didn't do what you wanted them to do?

What are you talking about???

 

[Politesse]

This myth that you're creating for yourself... have you considered introducing some reality into it? You've created this self-soothing narrative where everyone who voted for Trump is an evil racist who wishes slavery were still legal. The only problem is that Dems lost share among every voting cohort except white men. So your feel-good-those-people-are-evil story is effectively painting black, hispanic, and other minority voters as being racist slavery-apologists.

Your portrayal of my perspective certainly lacks nuance... Of course, I said none of the above in the post you are suposedly responding to.

 

[crazyfingers]

if the Polio vaccine gets revoked from approval, or banned, millions of dead or paralyzed kids.

Wait, what now? Why would it get revoked or banned? On the other side... why would that matter in the US?

RFKjr's top lawyer has tried to get the Polio vaccine banned. That's why it's a topic. And if it got banned, well diseases spread. There are still pockets of places on the planet where Polio is still a problem.

 

[Elixir]

if the Polio vaccine gets revoked from approval, or banned, millions of dead or paralyzed kids.

Wait, what now? Why would it get revoked or banned? On the other side... why would that matter in the US?

RFKjr's top lawyer has tried to get the Polio vaccine banned. That's why it's a topic. And if it got banned, well diseases spread. There are still pockets of places on the planet where Polio is still a problem.

Seriously.
Of course under the glare of public scrutiny (soon to be a thing of the past), “Bobby” has suddenly recanted everything he has ever said or done, and the worm is busily re-wiring his brain to MAGA spec.
Which means, he now says he doesn’t oppose the polio vaccine, which further means he will probably try to ban it. Because that’s MAGA SOP.

 

[Emily Lake]

Wherever Republicans and the media take the conversation, the Democrats follow, taking every piece of bait.

That's why I believe they should have stopped pulling punches and attacked Rump head-on, telling it like it is, calling her opponent what he is. Even Kami knew he couldn't handle that., but she had to take the high road. Someone convinced her that overpowering a 310-lb lump of ugly fat would be unseemly for a lady. Or something like that.

And that would indeed have pissed off a lot of Americans. There are plenty of US citizens who HATE seeing a man publically disparaged by a woman, for any reason. But that's all the more reason why we cannot allow these people to steer the ship. We know exactly what kind of society they'll build if they are in charge, and it isn't tolerable to any thinking person with a conscience.

Sooo... what, you're going to revoke the right to vote for half the country because they didn't do what you wanted them to do?

What are you talking about???

What do you think other people infer when you say "But that's all the more reason why we cannot allow these people to steer the ship. We know exactly what kind of society they'll build if they are in charge, and it isn't tolerable to any thinking person with a conscience."?

It rather strongly reads as if you believe that some people (approximately half the voting populace) shouldn't be allowed to express their preferences in the voting booth.

 

[Emily Lake]

This myth that you're creating for yourself... have you considered introducing some reality into it? You've created this self-soothing narrative where everyone who voted for Trump is an evil racist who wishes slavery were still legal. The only problem is that Dems lost share among every voting cohort except white men. So your feel-good-those-people-are-evil story is effectively painting black, hispanic, and other minority voters as being racist slavery-apologists.

Your portrayal of my perspective certainly lacks nuance... Of course, I said none of the above in the post you are suposedly responding to.

Honestly, do you ever read your own posts back to yourself?

I assure you not many Trump voters would appreciate being called "Yanks", either their great-greats were all on the wrong side of the war, or they wish they were. Fighting and dying by the hundreds of thousands, watching all the great cities of the South burn to the ground, all so their bosses/landlords could keep their household slaves. Is there any nobler or ennobling cause imaginable?

What do you think you're conveying here? And in what way is it meaningfully different from my rephrasing?

 

[Emily Lake]

if the Polio vaccine gets revoked from approval, or banned, millions of dead or paralyzed kids.

Wait, what now? Why would it get revoked or banned? On the other side... why would that matter in the US?

RFKjr's top lawyer has tried to get the Polio vaccine banned. That's why it's a topic. And if it got banned, well diseases spread. There are still pockets of places on the planet where Polio is still a problem.

Is he trying to get it banned across the entire globe?

I don't know why anyone would be trying to get it banned, at least not the old-school injected vaccine that's been around forever. On the other hand... I guess I also figure it's more or less in the same camp as smallpox, and not a particular concern in the US.

 

[Elixir]

"But that's all the more reason why we cannot allow these people to steer the ship. We know exactly what kind of society they'll build if they are in charge, and it isn't tolerable to any thinking person with a conscience."?

It rather strongly reads as if you believe that some people (approximately half the voting populace) shouldn't be allowed to express their preferences in the voting booth.

That's right. Both sides are SUPPOSED to think that. Each is the other's opposition party. Their job used to be to convince sufficient people of your actual intent to get the "approximate" part of "approximately half" to be more than half.
Now, for several decades it has been the intent of conservatives to use any means possible to leverage all the power they have had, to hold onto and increase their power to "convince" by any means possible including parroting and spreading propaganda produced by our foreign adversaries to undermine democratic rule, defraud the voters in new and massive ways, promote gerrymandering, bigoted policies and isolationism and in the end, screwing their voters who will be helpless in their grasp as were serfs of old.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

if the Polio vaccine gets revoked from approval, or banned, millions of dead or paralyzed kids.

Wait, what now? Why would it get revoked or banned? On the other side... why would that matter in the US?

RFKjr's top lawyer has tried to get the Polio vaccine banned.

If they weren't an absolute dunce and deliberately obtuse they could've just, y'know, Googled it.