Dem Post Mortem

[Loren Pechtel]

Perhaps we should ask people here a question: please name one conservative who is not an asshole? It may not really clarify anything but I'd be interested in the answer.

This will be hard for me because I focus on trends rather than individuals. There are relatively few politicians about whom I have strong opinions; and many of those attracted my attention BECAUSE they seem like assholes! But here goes:

There were many moderate Republicans in the 20th century, and two female incumbent Senators who seem OK. But they probably don't qualify: They are considered NOT assholes because they are NOT right-wingers!

John McCain seemed like a GOOD person. Perhaps he wasn't as SMART as we'd hope for in a President, but he impressed me and many others as a good-spirited man. Both he and Mitt Romney, when running against Barack Obama, scolded their audiences for assholish behavior against Obama. (I'd better not put Romney forward as an example. Even if his politics were not assholish, there'd be plenty of other ways to criticize him.)

Many of those who detest abortion do so out of strong religious convictions. However WRONG or STUPID they may be, that doesn't make them "assholes." Hasn't abortion been considered criminal in most past societies? IIRC didn't one ancient society (Rome?) where abortion was legal also permit infanticide up to an age of majority?!?

John Kasich is a conservative who is not an asshole. He joined Ralph Nader in an effort to overturn corporate tax loopholes. Over time he changed his mind on several issues where he once took the right-wing position. Is Liz Cheney an asshole?

By default I view most right-wingers as assholes, but this is partly due to my own prejudice. Thinking of "conservatives" I've met in real life or interacted with on message-boards, many seem to be assholes, but many are just deluded ignoramuses rather than "assholes."

What do other Infidels think?

Strange. All three are no longer welcome in the conservative club.

Not strange. The biggest enemies are the moderates in their own camp.

 

[ZiprHead]

Abortion derail moved to here.

 

[thebeave]

Jake Tapper Faces Backlash Over New Book on Biden's Cognitive Decline

CNN anchor Jake Tapper is facing blowback for co-authoring a new book about efforts to allegedly cover up former President Joe Biden's mental decline.

Penguin Press announced Wednesday that Tapper and Axios correspondent Alex Thompson were co-writing a book about what led to the Democratic Party's 2024 election defeat, with a focus on Biden's "serious decline."

In response, several conservatives have resurfaced old remarks in which Tapper defended Biden in the 2020 election cycle. After President Donald Trump's daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, criticized Biden's voice for shaking in his campaign speeches, Tapper wrote on Twitter that politics aside, it is "worth reading this remarkable piece about his stutter" with a link to an Atlantic article describing how Biden's stutter began in boyhood.

CNN declined Newsweek's request for comment. Newsweek reached out to Tapper via Penguin Press for comment.

Why It Matters​

The devastating losses for the Democrats last year have largely been attributed to Biden's decision to run for reelection, despite concerns that had swirled around his age. At 82, he would have been the oldest president to be inaugurated again if he had won. After a disastrous debate performance against Donald Trump that sent Democrats panicking over his mental acuity, Biden ultimately bowed out of the race in July, leaving Democrats with just 107 days before the election to find a new nominee and build a winning campaign.

What To Know​

Despite Tapper's previous defense of Biden, he was among one of the most vocal critics of the president's decision to seek reelection in the wake of the June 27 presidential debate. Tapper was the co-moderator of the only debate that took place between Biden and Trump last year.

Twelve days before Biden dropped out, Tapper took direct aim at the president and his team, calling Biden and his family in "complete denial" about his health and the state of his campaign.

In a lengthy monologue, Tapper criticized "Democratic elites" for being "late to acknowledge" the age and ability concerns that the public has long had about Biden. At one point, the CNN anchor played a clip of Biden giving an interview to a Philadelphia-based radio station before responding to the president's gaffe about being proud to be the first Black woman to serve as vice president and calling it "not coherent."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The words "serious decline" isn't a diagnosis. Biden simply could have just been too old.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Trump mentally declined a long time ago, too. One of the differences not really being talked about here between the parties is the loudness of the cult of Trump, the propaganda machine that was at an all-time high across conservative fake news, Russian disinformation, Broligarchy-owned social media, and religious institutions. Remember, even utterly destroying Trump in a one-on-one debate had zero impact on a media apparatus that lives in his attention economy.

 

[thebeave]

The words "serious decline" isn't a diagnosis. Biden simply could have just been too old.

Who is claiming "serious decline" is some sort of official diagnosis? Its not just the actual age. There is no shortage of 81 year olds who can speak more coherently than this:

 

[thebeave]

Trump mentally declined a long time ago, too. One of the differences not really being talked about here between the parties is the loudness of the cult of Trump, the propaganda machine that was at an all-time high across conservative fake news, Russian disinformation, Broligarchy-owned social media, and religious institutions. Remember, even utterly destroying Trump in a one-on-one debate had zero impact on a media apparatus that lives in his attention economy.

A giggling canine once told me...

 

[thebeave]

Looking to 2028, maybe John Fetterman is the way to go...

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Trump mentally declined a long time ago, too. One of the differences not really being talked about here between the parties is the loudness of the cult of Trump, the propaganda machine that was at an all-time high across conservative fake news, Russian disinformation, Broligarchy-owned social media, and religious institutions. Remember, even utterly destroying Trump in a one-on-one debate had zero impact on a media apparatus that lives in his attention economy.

A giggling canine once told me...

This isn't the same context. It's not a whataboutism because it is part of the answer. If we're having an honest discussion about the thread topic "Dem post-mortem," then we have to ask the question what was the cause of the Dem loss. To answer the question, we can contrast the Dem performance the last time against the Dem performance in 2020. In doing so, the main difference we can observe is particular groupings of voters who changed votes to Trump. In doing that analysis, it is noted that those groups were looking for economic change and immigration was also an issue, but immigration is also partly economic (i.e. "they took our jobs!!!111"), and so economics is the primary electoral issue that people were paying attention to who flipped. One facet of the flips is perception and opinion and it is necessary to examine where people get their information from. So, to do that one ought to consider information sources typically used by people and of course those include all the things I had listed, but also there was a flip in information sources in that the Broligarchy was no longer neutral but came out swinging for Trump and Trump was very loud, went on Joe Rogan and masculinist podcasts etc. You also had Bezos's Washington Post changing content. I don't expect the latter to have impacted much as the former, but it's an additional example. That attention economy and The Algorithm did not make criticism of Trump (or his mental decline) into memes, even though he has had way more moments of saying ridiculous, unhinged things. Instead, it was all about what he said in a positive light and then moving on to the next, like that he would fix the Price of Eggs on "DAY ONE." It isn't a whataboutism to mention in a post mortem, that the extent of the power of the proaganda machine is so far-reaching, it even takes votes from the traditional base.

 

[thebeave]

Trump mentally declined a long time ago, too. One of the differences not really being talked about here between the parties is the loudness of the cult of Trump, the propaganda machine that was at an all-time high across conservative fake news, Russian disinformation, Broligarchy-owned social media, and religious institutions. Remember, even utterly destroying Trump in a one-on-one debate had zero impact on a media apparatus that lives in his attention economy.

A giggling canine once told me...

This isn't the same context. It's not a whataboutism because it is part of the answer. If we're having an honest discussion about the thread topic "Dem post-mortem," then we have to ask the question what was the cause of the Dem loss. To answer the question, we can contrast the Dem performance the last time against the Dem performance in 2020. In doing so, the main difference we can observe is particular groupings of voters who changed votes to Trump. In doing that analysis, it is noted that those groups were looking for economic change and immigration was also an issue, but immigration is also partly economic (i.e. "they took our jobs!!!111"), and so economics is the primary electoral issue that people were paying attention to who flipped. One facet of the flips is perception and opinion and it is necessary to examine where people get their information from. So, to do that one ought to consider information sources typically used by people and of course those include all the things I had listed, but also there was a flip in information sources in that the Broligarchy was no longer neutral but came out swinging for Trump and Trump was very loud, went on Joe Rogan and masculinist podcasts etc. You also had Bezos's Washington Post changing content. I don't expect the latter to have impacted much as the former, but it's an additional example. That attention economy and The Algorithm did not make criticism of Trump (or his mental decline) into memes, even though he has had way more moments of saying ridiculous, unhinged things. Instead, it was all about what he said in a positive light and then moving on to the next, like that he would fix the Price of Eggs on "DAY ONE." It isn't a whataboutism to mention in a post mortem, that the extent of the power of the proaganda machine is so far-reaching, it even takes votes from the traditional base.

Its going to take more time than I have right now to read and process your long paragraph about how "Trump mentally declined a long time ago, too" is not a whataboutism to an article about Biden's mental decline. But there is one thing that caught my eye:

Trump post pledging Day 1 price cuts on eggs and gas is fake

Regardless, Biden's mental decline is old, tired news at this point. I'm actually more intrigued and interested in the White House and media's coverup of his condition, as per Jake Tapper's upcoming book, which is why I posted it in the first place. Similar as to what was said about Watergate (paraphrasing), "The coverup is worse than the crime". I think JT is only the beginning. At some point, Bidens' close aides are going to cash in and do a "tell all".

 

[Elixir]

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

 

[thebeave]

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

Why is it fake? He was basically forced out of the POTUS race because of it.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

Why is it fake? He was basically forced out of the POTUS race because of it.

Or at the very least because of the appearance of mental decline, irrespective of its veracity.

 

[Jarhyn]

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

Why is it fake? He was basically forced out of the POTUS race because of it.

Or at the very least because of the appearance of mental decline, irrespective of its veracity.

So, I can't help but ask whether thebeave was talking about said fake-news decline.

Was he calling it fake then?

Would having missed it's fakeness before indicate thebeave is not the best evaluator of fakeness or realness in news?

 

[Elixir]

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

Why is it fake? He was basically forced out of the POTUS race because of it.

He was forced out because it is hard for an old man with a speech impediment to show up fresh off a multi-day international working trip, to debate a logorrheal liar.
IMO that difficulty has little to do with overall mental acuity and much more with an inability to prioritize his own energy resources. That alone is somewhat disqualifying IMO. He should not have been focusing on short term needs of the Country and traveling, but on longer term needs. Like keeping the fascists from winning in November.
One thing about Trump - he never lets actual work interfere with satiating his greed.


Had Biden spent the prior week resting up and practicing uttering the rebuttal lines he would have known he was going to have to need, he still would have lost because he lacks the ability to verbally run roughshod others with sheer volume and velocity.

I would bet the farm, literally and figuratively, that Biden would beat Trump very badly in an actual test of mental acuity, and even more badly in a test of intelligence or general informedness.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Trump mentally declined a long time ago, too. One of the differences not really being talked about here between the parties is the loudness of the cult of Trump, the propaganda machine that was at an all-time high across conservative fake news, Russian disinformation, Broligarchy-owned social media, and religious institutions. Remember, even utterly destroying Trump in a one-on-one debate had zero impact on a media apparatus that lives in his attention economy.

A giggling canine once told me...

This isn't the same context. It's not a whataboutism because it is part of the answer. If we're having an honest discussion about the thread topic "Dem post-mortem," then we have to ask the question what was the cause of the Dem loss. To answer the question, we can contrast the Dem performance the last time against the Dem performance in 2020. In doing so, the main difference we can observe is particular groupings of voters who changed votes to Trump. In doing that analysis, it is noted that those groups were looking for economic change and immigration was also an issue, but immigration is also partly economic (i.e. "they took our jobs!!!111"), and so economics is the primary electoral issue that people were paying attention to who flipped. One facet of the flips is perception and opinion and it is necessary to examine where people get their information from. So, to do that one ought to consider information sources typically used by people and of course those include all the things I had listed, but also there was a flip in information sources in that the Broligarchy was no longer neutral but came out swinging for Trump and Trump was very loud, went on Joe Rogan and masculinist podcasts etc. You also had Bezos's Washington Post changing content. I don't expect the latter to have impacted much as the former, but it's an additional example. That attention economy and The Algorithm did not make criticism of Trump (or his mental decline) into memes, even though he has had way more moments of saying ridiculous, unhinged things. Instead, it was all about what he said in a positive light and then moving on to the next, like that he would fix the Price of Eggs on "DAY ONE." It isn't a whataboutism to mention in a post mortem, that the extent of the power of the proaganda machine is so far-reaching, it even takes votes from the traditional base.

Its going to take more time than I have right now to read and process your long paragraph about how "Trump mentally declined a long time ago, too" is not a whataboutism to an article about Biden's mental decline. But there is one thing that caught my eye:

Trump post pledging Day 1 price cuts on eggs and gas is fake

Regardless, Biden's mental decline is old, tired news at this point. I'm actually more intrigued and interested in the White House and media's coverup of his condition, as per Jake Tapper's upcoming book, which is why I posted it in the first place. Similar as to what was said about Watergate (paraphrasing), "The coverup is worse than the crime". I think JT is only the beginning. At some point, Bidens' close aides are going to cash in and do a "tell all".

Uh, perhaps you should look more closely at your snopes link and make the most reasonable inference logically.

On Aug. 15, 2024, Trump held a news conference outside the clubhouse of his golf course in Bedminster, New Jersey. Standing between tables filled with groceries — including cartons of eggs — he addressed the issue of rising consumer prices, including speaking on the costs of groceries and gas.

"When I win," he declared (at 27:32), "I will immediately bring prices down, starting on Day 1. We will end Kamala's war on American energy and we will drill, baby, drill. We're gonna drill, baby, drill. That's gonna bring down prices of everything because energy brought it up."

He didn't show up to his propaganda presentation with a carton of eggs because he wasn't promising to decrease the price of eggs and whether or not this was alleged to be an indirect cost because of energy, he never brought down the cost of energy and the fucking root cause of the price of eggs has nothing to do with energy in the first place. It has to do with the BIRD FLU. Maybe he'll get a plan to bring down the price of eggs by getting RFK Jr to stop culling the sick ones and let them give us their sick eggs instead because you know, HERD IMMUNITY. He can even give the birds a workout gym program and lots of vitamin A. BUT he never said that. He said energy will decrease the cost of eggs. He's trying desperately to reinvent the narrative about Russia right now and Republicans and independents will fall for it eventually exactly because of the propaganda machine in place. Then, he will end economic sanctions against Russia. And guess what? Gas prices actually will come down a little bit. Eggs will still be a problem. Perhaps even beef at that point and who knows what groceries will be next.

 

[Swammerdami]

Talking heads almost treat the November debacle as a "landslide" but like almost all recent Presidential elections this one was razor-thin.
Harris wins if she takes all three of the Rusty Swingers; she came close in all three:

Wisconsin 49.60% 48.74%
Michigan 49.73% 48.31%
Pennsylvania 50.37% 48.66% –

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

Why is it fake? He was basically forced out of the POTUS race because of it.

He was forced out because it is hard for an old man with a speech impediment to show up fresh off a multi-day international working trip, to debate a logorrheal liar.
IMO that difficulty has little to do with overall mental acuity and much more with an inability to prioritize his own energy resources. That alone is somewhat disqualifying IMO. He should not have been focusing on short term needs of the Country and traveling, but on longer term needs. Like keeping the fascists from winning in November.

I agree. Regardless of Biden's exact acuity his performance at the debate shows that he and/or his team were NOT prepared. Biden's failure to drop out by early 2024 at the latest was a blunder whose cost might have been HUGE.

I write "might have been" since Trump might have won anyway. Is there a scholarly article on the extent of disenfranchisement and other electoral cheating by the GOP?

Trump got 49% of the vote and would have failed with only 47%. It is the 47% at whom we should be aghast -- tens of millions of otherwise-sentient Americans -- and not the 2% extra, mostly confused low-IQ folk.


How did America's enemies win? Briefly, Trump and his team provoked political chaos; the electorate responded to the chaos by voting "for change" rather than seeking to understand the cause of the chaos.

 

[Tigers!]

Talking heads almost treat the November debacle as a "landslide" but like almost all recent Presidential elections this one was razor-thin.
Harris wins if she takes all three of the Rusty Swingers; she came close in all three:

Wisconsin 49.60% 48.74%
Michigan 49.73% 48.31%
Pennsylvania 50.37% 48.66% –

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

Why is it fake? He was basically forced out of the POTUS race because of it.

He was forced out because it is hard for an old man with a speech impediment to show up fresh off a multi-day international working trip, to debate a logorrheal liar.
IMO that difficulty has little to do with overall mental acuity and much more with an inability to prioritize his own energy resources. That alone is somewhat disqualifying IMO. He should not have been focusing on short term needs of the Country and traveling, but on longer term needs. Like keeping the fascists from winning in November.

I agree. Regardless of Biden's exact acuity his performance at the debate shows that he and/or his team were NOT prepared. Biden's failure to drop out by early 2024 at the latest was a blunder whose cost might have been HUGE.

I write "might have been" since Trump might have won anyway. Is there a scholarly article on the extent of disenfranchisement and other electoral cheating by the GOP?

Trump got 49% of the vote and would have failed with only 47%. It is the 47% at whom we should be aghast -- tens of millions of otherwise-sentient Americans -- and not the 2% extra, mostly confused low-IQ folk.


How did America's enemies win? Briefly, Trump and his team provoked political chaos; the electorate responded to the chaos by voting "for change" rather than seeking to understand the cause of the chaos.

Why do so many Americans not bother voting?
How many putative Harris voters did not bother turning up?
The disenfrachisment that should be concerning many is self-generated.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The words "serious decline" isn't a diagnosis. Biden simply could have just been too old.

Who is claiming "serious decline" is some sort of official diagnosis?

You presented this like it was providing us information we weren't aware of. "Serious decline" isn't a diagnosis. Biden is in his 80s. While you pretend to know he was suffering from *insert whatever* there are other explanations including he was too old to pull off running for the White House and he should have stuck to just the one term. If things fell off a cliff, we aren't certain.

This is just a book to sell us information we already knew.

Its not just the actual age. There is no shortage of 81 year olds who can speak more coherently than this:

Again, you just want to presume mental health diagnoses. I'm uncertain why you link to the book that doesn't tell us anything new, just so you can repeat a claim on mental wellness that isn't supported by it.

The curious thing about the claim is that if these people knew Biden was incapable of being President, how in the world would he be able to win re-election?

 

[thebeave]

Biden's mental decline is old, tired FAKE news at this point.

FIFY

Why is it fake? He was basically forced out of the POTUS race because of it.

He was forced out because it is hard for an old man with a speech impediment to show up fresh off a multi-day international working trip, to debate a logorrheal liar.
IMO that difficulty has little to do with overall mental acuity and much more with an inability to prioritize his own energy resources. That alone is somewhat disqualifying IMO. He should not have been focusing on short term needs of the Country and traveling, but on longer term needs. Like keeping the fascists from winning in November.
One thing about Trump - he never lets actual work interfere with satiating his greed.


Had Biden spent the prior week resting up and practicing uttering the rebuttal lines he would have known he was going to have to need, he still would have lost because he lacks the ability to verbally run roughshod others with sheer volume and velocity.

I would bet the farm, literally and figuratively, that Biden would beat Trump very badly in an actual test of mental acuity, and even more badly in a test of intelligence or general informedness.

There were many examples and questions about his mental acuity issues prior to the debate. The debate was just the most public and prominent example and a "wake up call" to many of his Democrat supporters.

When Presidents Falter: The Hidden Health Stories Of Biden And Wilson

President Biden's Age and Hidden Cognitive Decline​

Those who watched the debates witnessed it firsthand—President Biden’s cognitive decline could no longer be concealed. Yet, efforts to obscure the reality were reportedly ongoing well before June 27, 2024. President Biden had become increasingly unavailable, relied heavily on scripted remarks, declined meetings and assumed a diminished role in governance, according to The Wall Street Journal. This troubling pattern culminated in a debate performance that laid these concerns bare. Far from mere speculation, these claims are substantiated by thorough reporting in The Wall Street Journal, drawing on 50 interviews with individuals closely acquainted with the administration.

Negative stories were buried, The WSJ reported. The inner circle blockaded the president. Key members of Congress didn’t have contact with Biden. Pivotal roles were played by unelected staff members. Even now, the Democratic leadership continues to assert that everything was fine in Camelot. Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer maintained, as recently as last week, that Democrats did not gaslight the public.

Political leanings may influence whether or not one perceives or declares this a scandal. But, at its core, this issue left the nation confronting a potential leadership vacuum. Tangible examples provided in the The Wall Street Journal piece include the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, where truncated or skipped cabinet meetings highlighted the potential absence of decisive executive direction. The question it raises is both unavoidable and urgent: who was—and who is—truly governing the country?

Unfortunately, the WSJ article is behind a paywall.